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My computer turns off while loading windows


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#1 Barnack

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:40 AM

Apparently my new computer had more than one problem.

I've solved the cpu temperaturee problem installing a water cooling system (now  the maximum temperature reached is 47, while playing a game 41 degrees).

However my computer continues turning off. That happens when Windows is loading (with both Windows XP and Windows 7, even if more frequently with XP), and sometimes while i'm playing/recording videos/copying very big files.

I noticed that if my computer stays off for 1 entire day, in the next day it doesn't shut down as frequently as it does if i turn it on everyday.

 

Before you start with your hypothesis, i tell you what shurely ISN'T the problem:

Energy (already checked)

Windows installation (i can't remember how much times i reinstalled both XP and 7)

CPU temperature (as i told before, that is solved)

 

 

Theese are my ideas, tell me what are the most belivable:

 

-One of the 2 rams is physically damged, so when pc goes writing in a damged section it shuts down (is this possible?)

 

-Hard disk is physically damged (but i should be very unlucky in order to have both the hard disks damged)

 

-Motherboard temperature too high (i thought about that, but while i do heavy thing i Always keep an eye on mb temperature, and it reaches no more than 30 degrees... is possible that in one second it jumps from 30 to 80?)

 

-Hard disk temperature (if this may cause computer to shut down, but i don't think so)...

 

-I'm very, very, very unlucky (it is probable... how to solve that?)



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#2 jonuk76

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 06:51 AM

Can you describe these shut downs more?  Do they have a warning message like "Windows shutting down" or something like that or does it just turn off immediately without warning at any time?

 

By "energy" do you mean the power supply (PSU)?  If so, can you describe how you tested this?

 

PS Could you also list the full specification of your PC, and confirm whether it's a custom built (built yourself?) or manufactured PC?

 

Thanks :)


Edited by jonuk76, 31 July 2014 - 06:55 AM.

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#3 Barnack

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:43 AM

well, it don't tell anything: not while Windows is loading, neither while it loaded and i'm doing something heavy. It just shuts down.

By "while Windows is loading" i meand while you see theese 2 screens:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fCXmCJsxhAE/SfNXaZXWfMI/AAAAAAAAAIE/HgVFfkUqmfk/win7_rc_install_07_thumb%5B4%5D.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/28a84ea.jpg

 

Instead, if i start my DOS usb device or if i run bios there aren't problems.

 

power supply 1000w

I'm shure that this isn't the problem cause when computer stays off for a pair of days i can use "algodoo" (physics program) while listening music from dvd and copying a big file. If there's enough energy to keep working cpu, motherboard, hard disk, and dvd reader, why it shouldn't be enough to start Windows?

 

 

Processor AMD FX™-9590 Eight-Core Processor 4.71 GHz

8,00 GB ram (2 banks with 4gb each)

Hard disk 500gigabyte (with win 7)

Hard disk 2terabyte (with win XP sp3)

Motherboard Crosshair V formula z, Asus.

I don't remember Video card specifics, but i don't think that it may cause problems at start, am i right?
 

 

It's homemade, i ordered the pieces from the net, even from distant contryes. That's why i think that probably a piece has been shaken too much during transport, and than may result damged...

I wanted to build a monster, but actually monsters without life are useless...

 

Unfortunatelly i can't use one of theese programs that automatically write specifications because today my pc doesn't want to start...



#4 Barnack

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:04 AM

I've tryed to remove the 500gb hard disk and now computer shuts down no more while loading windows XP, but... i'm without windows 7 by this way.

You think it's an hardware problem, incompatibility with hardware or incompatibility between XP and 7?

If i install a switch the problem should be solved, am i right?

 

By the way, even with this "solution" applyed it sometimes shuts down when running Age of empires 3. That's strange: many heavy programs (algodoo (a physics program), autocad, games with an higher graphic quality, and many other things) don't cause the computer to reboot, while with AoE3, it does... it's a little old as game to cause problems to my pc...



#5 jonuk76

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:24 AM

Has this dual boot set up ever worked as intended, or is it a problem that has developed?

 

If you connect just the 500Gb (Windows 7) disk, what happens?

 

Do you have AHCI enabled on the disk controller in BIOS?

 

I can't comment on why specific games should cause it to shut down.  Windows XP or 7 should be able to recover from a program crash without the entire system shutting down. If it's hardware related (for example, excessive heat or PSU unable to handle the load) then there are tests that may be able to provoke this response..

 

1) Memtest86 - This is not a stress test, this is a memory test and is worth doing as a first step.  This runs off a bootable CD or USB drive.  Most people recommend doing several passes (which takes quite a few hours) but allow at least one full pass.  If there are problems reported then you can try to narrow it down by testing RAM sticks individually.

 

2) Furmark Burn In Test - this works the video card hard, for maximum power consumption and heat generation (more than you'll get from a normal game).  Keep an eye on the GPU temperature using HW Monitor or similar.  Be prepared to abort the test (press Esc) if the temperature climbs too high as damage could be caused if it overheats.  Maximum temperatures vary, but I would be getting nervous if the GPU temperature got near 90 degrees c.  If the system turns off during this test, that may give a clue as to what is going on.

 

You say the CPU temperature is under control so that is good.  If you did want to put the CPU under maximum load Prime 95 in Small FFT mode is one program that will do it.


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#6 Barnack

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:45 AM

AHCI is enabled.

Windows 7 hard disk works well, but i installed it just to try. I wanted to put xp in both the hard disks but with the problems of theese days i prefear to keep at last one working os.

Today i tryed to reinstall WinXP in the 2tb hard disk, but in the last phase of the installation (when pc reboots after having chosen Language preferences, to load Windows for the first time) it... shuts down!

During the installation i saw this message:

file missing:

OEM\bin\un7zip.exe

c:\DSP\dsblr.exe

 

But this one now is a software problem, not hardware. By the way, consired it sometimes shuts down even with Win7, i'm always more convinced that there is more than one problem.

I'll try the programs you listed with win7... for the files missing problem i should open a new topic in the "Windows XP" section of this forum, right?



#7 Barnack

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 08:56 AM

Memtest86 -

The computer shuts down while testing process goes on. I've tryed

With both the rams

with 1 ram

with the other ram

 

In all cases it shuts down. However that doesn't happen always at the same percentage. Apparently it shuts down randomly. And more than once it shutted down even BEFORE test's start.

 

What should i do? Is possible to understand the problem from what i told?

I'm so unlucky that both rams are damged?

i'm really desperate, i don't know what to do...  sell this sleeping beast and unse my old olidata... so old that Pinball can lock the system...? That's not a solution...

what to do then?



#8 jonuk76

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:52 AM

That is frustrating!  I can understand you being annoyed at this stage.

 

Can I ask if you have set the RAM with any manual timings or overclocked settings or is it just at default auto settings (which will be determined by the SPD chip in the memory module)?

 

To make sure there are no wrong memory timings stored in the BIOS, can you enter the BIOS setup screen and choose "Load Optimised Defaults" which restores default values.  Then save and exit and try the memory test again.

 

Did it indicate any memory faults before powering off, or did it just shut off?

 

Also sorry to go on about the power supply but I still think your symptoms could easily be caused by a fault here.  The fact this problem is occurring in memtest86 which runs outside of Windows likely rules out Windows itself as being the problem.  What is the make and model of the 1000w PSU? Do you have a spare known good PSU (of sufficient power) you can test?  Maybe a local PC shop would be willing to help out if you asked them nicely??

 

Dedicated PSU testers are available which are not too expensive, but I can understand being reluctant to buy one for a one off job.  Also it can be tested with a multimeter as per these instructions.  The instructions include testing open circuit (no load) voltages and voltages under load.


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#9 Barnack

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 07:03 AM

Regarding the program, i used the default values. It doesn't indicate any fault. the program works, and instantly screen becomes black, computer beeps as when reboots and... it reboots.

In the psu is written:

AC230V3A,

you mean this?

+5V-+3.3V combined load 400W max power 1000W,

or this?

 

Btw, with Windows7 i uesd for an hour PS2 emulator (PCSX2) with non native resolution (1024*1024), it worked correctly, then i shut down, and after an hour i restarted the pc and started Age Of Empires 3 and the pc shutted down when it was yet in the main menù.

A computer game needs more energy then an emulator with high performance settings? It seems strange...



#10 jonuk76

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 08:02 AM

In the psu is written:

AC230V3A,

you mean this?

+5V-+3.3V combined load 400W max power 1000W,

or this?

 

 

What I really mean is who made it?  Is it from a reputable manufacturer or brand?  For example, Antec, Be Quiet, Cooler Master, Corsair, EVGA, FSP, Seasonic, XFX etc. etc.

 

+5v and +3.3v don't need to be particularly large on modern systems.  Far more important is the rating at +12v which powers nearly everything (notably CPU and graphics card).

 

Without knowing your graphics card it's difficult to give guidance on what would be a good PSU to use.  I doubt you need a 1000w PSU, but power requirements are very much larger for say an AMD R9-290X card versus an AMD R7-240.  The CPU you have is a bit of a power hog though :)


7sbvuf-6.png


#11 Barnack

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:16 AM

It's "tecno"... it's not one of those you listed here.

Graphic card is a Sapphire HD series, but about the specific model, i can tell you its name next week...

Btw, what you told means that pc games uses graphic card a lot more than emulators, which focus on processor, is that right? And energy isn't enough to let everything work, expecially including graphic card with high performance, if it neither can't hold a memory test... Is this the situation? I don't understand why emulators work without problem...

 

However, when my father returns home (he's not here now, he'll return next week), we'll try putting my psu inside his computer, and then see if it shuts down too... if that happens it is shurely a psu problem, right?



#12 jonuk76

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 02:05 PM

Right I'm not familiar with "Tecno" brand PSU's.  The few pages Google shows up about them are Italian language pages, which suggest they are very cheap (someone claimed €30 for a 1000w PSU in something I read??) and some featuring similar complaints to yours.  If that price is right (which I can't verify) then it will be junk.  It is not possible to make a 1000w PSU at an acceptable quality for that price.  At the very least, it won't really be rated to anything like 1000w.  At the worst, it could be missing crucial safety features and could be exposing your components to unstable voltages.

 

Take for example this thread.  If this is what you have, I'd very strongly recommend you replace it with a good quality power supply.  Another red flag is that the Tecno PSU featured in the linked thread is displaying an 80+ Gold label.  To be 80+ Gold rated they have to be certified by 80+ to deliver their rated power at a high efficiency.  But unfortunately, there are cheap fake 80+ rated PSU's which have not been certified.  Tecno PSU's do not appear on the 80+ website and therefore the only conclusion can be that they are not certified, despite the badging to suggest some of them are.

 

I use emulators quite a lot myself.  They are mostly single threaded (run on one core, MAME for example) and mostly do not use the graphics hardware to any great degree.  They for the most part are not very demanding on modern hardware (unless you are emulating some more advanced 3D game in software). 


Edited by jonuk76, 08 August 2014 - 07:23 PM.

7sbvuf-6.png


#13 Barnack

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 04:52 AM

Unfortunatelly my PSU is the one in the forum you linked... and the problem seems to be the same too...
So the only thing i can do is buy a better PSU even if it has lower energy? If tecno doesn't take this thing back and give me my moneys i'll... roarrrrrrrr!
By the way, can you suggest me a good psu?
my graphic card is:
Sapphire AMD radeon 2gb GHz 7870
(with low prize if possible. I've already spent enough money for this computer)

#14 jonuk76

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 05:46 AM

Honestly I think that is not a good PSU, and it could well be the source of your problems.  With that CPU and graphics card, I would be looking at a 750w or greater PSU - your CPU is rather power hungry (approx 220w alone).

 

Unfortunately quality in a high wattage power supply doesn't come that cheap.  Where are you?  Prices can vary a lot by region...

 

Some of the better value (but NOT cheap!) models I would suggest are:

 

XFX Pro Core Edition 750w (80+ Bronze)

Corsair CX 750M (80+ Bronze)

Corsair CSM 750 (80+ Gold)

EVGA G2 750 (80+ Gold)


Edited by jonuk76, 12 August 2014 - 06:31 AM.

7sbvuf-6.png


#15 Barnack

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:03 PM

Thanks you for the advices, by the way, before buying a new PSU, i'll try installing the one i had in my old computer.

It's "power"

LC6600GP v2.3

600w

 

It's a good PSU? it never gave problems in past, but is 600w enough if stressing both CPU and videocard?

You suggest me to use this one temporary to buy a new 750 as soon as possible, or it'll be stable with my PC?






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