Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Dell Inspirion 5520


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 soubuckeye

soubuckeye

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:48 PM

I have a Dell Inspirion 5520 running Windows 7, 64 bit. Core i7, 8gb RAM.  Within the past few days, I have begun experiencing random power-offs.  I've researched this problem as best as I can, trying a number of different solutions.  I've read other threads on an issue similar to this (including but not limited to: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19523029.aspx ), and posted my own thread on the Dell forum, and got a bit of good input but nothing definitive: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19590726.aspx


Here is what I have done thus far, and/or experienced the shut down during or after:

  • Used a different AC adaptor
  • Battery only (no AC adaptor plugged in, battery at or near fully charged)
  • No battery at all (AC adaptor only)
  • Updated the system BIOS to the most recent (A14) from a much older version (A07, I believe?) that I don't think I had updated in the past.
  • Reset BIOS settings to default factory settings
  • Ran the Dell system diagnostic (F12 at start-up before going into Windows).  No errors.  It should be noted that during these tests:
    • CPU temps were within norms (as low as 45 degrees, as high as 72 degrees during stress tests.  Shutdowns have happened at all times - after using for hours, when first turning on in the morning)
    • Battery temps were reasonable (27-30 degrees, roughly)
    • Shutdowns still occasionally happened during the diagnostic tests.  This rules out (to me) a Windows issue, and there was no pattern to when it was shutting down during the tests.
    • Fan was working fine (3800-4200 RPM depending on where in the test I was)
  • Disassembled the computer, including removal of the motherboard.  Blew dust off the board and anywhere else I could see it.
  • Removed old thermal paste between heat sink and CPU, applied new.
  • Close inspection of the mother board does not show any capacitors bulging or blown out, or any other sort of apparent physical damage.
  • Inspected all wiring leading from the AC adapter female end to the motherboard for short or signs of damage.
  • Inspected battery connections.

When the system powers down, it is as if the battery was yanked and the cord was pulled.  A complete power loss.  if this were a desktop, I'd have thought my foot had accidentally hit the switch on the surge protector. I've all but ruled out a legitimate heat issue (various temps, and even immediate shut-down after having been off overnight, and the fact that it has done this during the diagnostic testing suggests that it is not a software (Windows) issue.  

 

Here's a few things I have noticed about these shutdowns:

  • They seem to come in spurts.  For example, the computer will be fine all day long, then suddenly go through 8 or 9 shutdowns in a row before re-stabilizing for a while.  The slew of shutdowns will come during the POST process, anytime during the startup procedure, or even a few minutes after I've gotten logged into Windows.
  • If I get a shutdown while running on AC power and a full battery, I can sometimes stabilize it by running off battery for a while.  Not sure if this is coincidence or not.
  • Approximately 10% of the time, when restarting the system immediately after shutdown, I will get a Level 1 Cache failure beep during the POST process (7 beeps for a Dell). (POSSIBLE CULPRIT?)
  • Sometimes when the system has been stable, if I move it from my lap to a table, the act of setting it down will cause a shutdown as if the vibration kicks it off.  (POSSIBLE CULPRIT?)

I've pretty much narrowed it down to two possible things that I could do to fix it:
- Motherboard going bad (since it seems to be a power supply issue of sorts, and with these laptops).  In this case, replace the MB

- CPU going bad (as indicated by the Lvl 1 Cache failure, but I'm not sold on this since its occasional and only if I attempt restart immediately after a shutdown).  In this case, replaces the CPU

 

 Obviously, I want to choose the one that would be correct so I end up not wasting my money on a part for it to be something else.  Of course, I'm also interested in workaround and other solutions I may have overlooked.

 

Any input or ideas there may be would be appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance!


Edited by soubuckeye, 23 July 2014 - 11:21 PM.


BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 zingo156

zingo156

  • BC Advisor
  • 3,333 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:30 AM

7 beeps indicates a cpu problem but on most of the m/n 5000 series where I have replaced cpu's, the problem remained the same. It seems in most cases it was the mainboard. I haven't quite nailed it down to north or south bridge but I have done some reflow work on them and in most cases this solves the problem for short periods of time. If the computer is under warranty, I recommend having dell work on it. Otherwise you may end up replacing both the cpu and the mainboard. At this point it still could be any piece of hardware including simple things such as mouse/keyboard/webcam/wifi card etc.

 

Before I get you too worried, visually inspect all of your USB ports and your ethernet port for shorting pins or damage as these may cause power offs as well. Also while using the computer, disconnect all usb devices, just use the computer with the built in mouse/keyboard. It is possible the built in hardware has an issue but we will look into that after.

 

Also please download and run who crashed:

 

We need to analyze your operating system's crash dump files to further diagnose what could possibly be crashing your computer system.

Please download Who Crashed? and save it to your desktop.

Double click whocrashedSetup.exe and choose Run

On Windows Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1 machines, when User Account Control asks if you wish to install this program, say YES to install the program on your computer.

Program can also be installed by right click and choosing Run As An Administrator.

On the next screen choose Next and accept the agreement.

Install the program in it's default location C:\Program Files\WhoCrashed (If your primary drive is different from C:, choose your primary drive.)

Choose Next and allow program to create a Start Menu Folder called WhoCrashed and click Next.

Allow program to create desktop icon and click Next.

Now Click Install.

Once the program is installed on your computer system, look for the WhoCrashed icon.png desktop Icon and double click it.

Accept the User Account Control request and the program will open on your screen and should look something like this.

whocrashed.png

Next, Click the Analyze button. analyze.png

An Information Window should appear on your screen prompting you to scroll down your screen.

If a report was generated we would like to have a look at this report.

To do this, click File analyze.png and then choose Export.

Save as WhoCrashedOutput.htm to your desktop.

Open WhoCrashedOutput.htm and copy and paste all of the contents from System Information (local) and Crash Dump Analysis and the Conclusion into your next reply.


Edited by zingo156, 24 July 2014 - 07:49 AM.

If I am helping you with a problem and I have not responded within 48 hours please send me a PM.

#3 soubuckeye

soubuckeye
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:53 AM

Interesting program.  I was concerned it would not detect the crashes since it was a power-off issue, but it nabbed the first two I had last night (among the 5 or 6 and the 6 this morning).  Here is the output as requested:

 

 

----------------------------------

System Information (local)

computer name: SD70ACE-2
windows version: Windows 7 Service Pack 1, 6.1, build: 7601
windows dir: C:\Windows
Hardware: Inspiron 5520, Dell Inc., 04G65K
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel® Core™ i7-3612QM CPU @ 2.10GHz Intel586, level: 6
8 logical processors, active mask: 255
RAM: 8459235328 total


 

Crash Dump Analysis

Crash dump directory: C:\Windows\Minidump

Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.

On Tue 6/17/2014 8:12:58 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\061714-30544-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x75BC0)
Bugcheck code: 0xA0 (0x9, 0xFFFFFFFFC000009C, 0x1, 0x0)
Error: INTERNAL_POWER_ERROR
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This bug check indicates that the power policy manager experienced a fatal error.
This problem might be caused by a thermal issue.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.



On Tue 6/17/2014 8:12:58 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0)
Bugcheck code: 0xA0 (0x9, 0xFFFFFFFFC000009C, 0x1, 0x0)
Error: INTERNAL_POWER_ERROR
Bug check description: This bug check indicates that the power policy manager experienced a fatal error.
This problem might be caused by a thermal issue.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time. 

 

----------------------------------

 

I did not notice any damage to the USB ports, but the Ethernet port has two pins (4 & 5) that appear jammed down, as if there was a cable in there.  Come to think of it, these issues began a couple weeks ago sometime after I used the Ethernet port for the first time in a long while (had to get into my father in law's router to reconfigure his wifi, as he had forgotten all his settings).  Those two pins are the grnd connection, but would that be enough to cause this headache?  I'm doubtful, but its at least worth mentioning.

 

Thanks for the response and help thus far.



#4 zingo156

zingo156

  • BC Advisor
  • 3,333 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:29 AM


 

I did not notice any damage to the USB ports, but the Ethernet port has two pins (4 & 5) that appear jammed down, as if there was a cable in there.  Come to think of it, these issues began a couple weeks ago sometime after I used the Ethernet port for the first time in a long while (had to get into my father in law's router to reconfigure his wifi, as he had forgotten all his settings).  Those two pins are the grnd connection, but would that be enough to cause this headache?  I'm doubtful, but its at least worth mentioning.

 

Thanks for the response and help thus far.

It may have something to do with the ethernet port, I recommend you bend the pins back up using a needle or tweezers. Gently bend them back into the correct position or at least so they are not touching any other metal or shorting with other pins. (REMOVE ALL POWER from the computer, battery and power adapter before manipulating the pins).

 

Because the power off issue has happened even while running diagnostics, I agree this is a hardware level issue. If bending those back in place does not solve the issue let me know.

 

Also as mentioned try running the computer with nothing connected except the power adapter (no USB devices etc).

 

If it is still shutting down, the next step would be to start removing built in hardware. There are some easy pieces to remove from the bottom end. Wireless cards, and ram. I would recommend trying with 1 single stick of ram in 1 slot. If you have issues with powering off, move the stick to the other slot and retest. If you still have issues, swap that stick of ram with a different one and try the new stick in both slots.

 

Don't forget to remove the power adapter and the battery while removing/swapping parts.


If I am helping you with a problem and I have not responded within 48 hours please send me a PM.

#5 zingo156

zingo156

  • BC Advisor
  • 3,333 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:31 AM

I am still investigating the crash dumps you posted.


If I am helping you with a problem and I have not responded within 48 hours please send me a PM.

#6 zingo156

zingo156

  • BC Advisor
  • 3,333 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:38 AM

Disabling hibernate may help, it is worth a try: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/819-hibernate-enable-disable.html

 

Option 4 may be the easiest way unless you know how to use CMD.


If I am helping you with a problem and I have not responded within 48 hours please send me a PM.

#7 zingo156

zingo156

  • BC Advisor
  • 3,333 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:43 AM

Well the crash dumps really do not point directly at any hardware or software, I recommend you disable hibernate posted above, and also download and run HWmonitor. HWmonitor will report the lowest and highest temps. Keep an eye on the temps including the cpu, mainboard, gpu, etc. If anything seems high report that here. It will also keep track of the voltages.

 

HWmonitor can be downloaded here: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html


Edited by zingo156, 24 July 2014 - 09:43 AM.

If I am helping you with a problem and I have not responded within 48 hours please send me a PM.

#8 soubuckeye

soubuckeye
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:53 AM

I just re-looked at the dates.  That was back in June.  These crashes have been happening the past couple of weeks (July only).  These crashes aren't getting nabbed.  I just recovered from one while Windows had been up a good 45 minutes and WhoCrashed didn't see anything (just the two old ones).

 

I'll try getting the Ethernet pins fixed.  I might even go so far as to remove that daughter board from the computer if I can't get them bent back...  The old "remove it and see if it still breaks" trick.

 

I am still investigating the crash dumps you posted.



#9 zingo156

zingo156

  • BC Advisor
  • 3,333 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:03 AM

You could try replacing the daughter board, my guess is that also has the charging jack port built in so you may not be able to just remove it without having a new one.

 

One other thing to think about with this computer is some debris shorting something somewhere. If you are going to take the computer apart, use a can of air or compressor to blow over the mainboard (remove the ram and other parts and blow the connections out as well). Because of this statement:

  • Sometimes when the system has been stable, if I move it from my lap to a table, the act of setting it down will cause a shutdown as if the vibration kicks it off.  (POSSIBLE CULPRIT?)

I might suspect a lose screw or something moving around shorting internally. I have seen it happen a few times. In one particular case (laptop) the computer would not power on, or would power on and then shut off nearly instantly. Eventually I took the mainboard out and built the computer outside of the bottom plastic (the classic bench test), the computer then fired right up and ran fine, passed diagnostics etc. I put the components back in and again it wouldn't power on. I took the parts out and built it again outside of the bottom plastic, it powered on. After looking at the bottom plastic, I discovered there was a screw that had come lose from the fan, it was sitting int he bottom plastic stuck in a corner. It was wedged in so even shaking the bottom plastic didn't remove it. After removing the screw from the bottom plastic, the computer was fine.


If I am helping you with a problem and I have not responded within 48 hours please send me a PM.

#10 zingo156

zingo156

  • BC Advisor
  • 3,333 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:05 AM

ONE THING TO MENTION: your warranty will be void if you take the computer apart. Dell computers have a 1 year parts warranty, if it is still under warranty, contact dell.


If I am helping you with a problem and I have not responded within 48 hours please send me a PM.

#11 soubuckeye

soubuckeye
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:49 AM

Already did that one.  Was very meticulous about checking for that very thing, including visible damage to the MB.  Luckily the Ethernet port is on the opposite side of the computer from the charging port.  My only concern is if the wifi chip is on the same daughter board.  I guess we'll have to see.  I'll report back once I get that done.

 

Thanks again for the responses... Its given me some new perspectives on the issue.

You could try replacing the daughter board, my guess is that also has the charging jack port built in so you may not be able to just remove it without having a new one.

 

One other thing to think about with this computer is some debris shorting something somewhere. If you are going to take the computer apart, use a can of air or compressor to blow over the mainboard (remove the ram and other parts and blow the connections out as well). Because of this statement:

  • Sometimes when the system has been stable, if I move it from my lap to a table, the act of setting it down will cause a shutdown as if the vibration kicks it off.  (POSSIBLE CULPRIT?)

I might suspect a lose screw or something moving around shorting internally. I have seen it happen a few times. In one particular case (laptop) the computer would not power on, or would power on and then shut off nearly instantly. Eventually I took the mainboard out and built the computer outside of the bottom plastic (the classic bench test), the computer then fired right up and ran fine, passed diagnostics etc. I put the components back in and again it wouldn't power on. I took the parts out and built it again outside of the bottom plastic, it powered on. After looking at the bottom plastic, I discovered there was a screw that had come lose from the fan, it was sitting int he bottom plastic stuck in a corner. It was wedged in so even shaking the bottom plastic didn't remove it. After removing the screw from the bottom plastic, the computer was fine.



#12 soubuckeye

soubuckeye
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:22 AM

Ok... Bent the pins back up as best I could, but not really optimistic it will have an effect.  Looked at removing the daughter board, but since it also has the WLAN card, I decided not to.  I'm still not convinced that two grounding pins on an Ethernet port can cause a computer to randomly shut down, but wierder things have happened.

 

If I experience another spate of shutdowns, I will report back.



#13 zingo156

zingo156

  • BC Advisor
  • 3,333 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:28 AM

The only reason I could see those bent pins causing an issue is if they were touching other pins by being bent down. Being bent down if they hit the bottom metal of the NIC cover, they may have bent slightly sideways enough to touch another pin. This issue really seems to be a short problem so it is the best place to start. I will be waiting for the report, best of luck!


If I am helping you with a problem and I have not responded within 48 hours please send me a PM.

#14 zingo156

zingo156

  • BC Advisor
  • 3,333 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:58 AM

I just had a thought: possible bad power button. I am not sure why I forgot about this potential problem... If the power button is worn out or getting stuck randomly shorting (which is what the button does to power on off) it may cause shutdowns, think 10 second power button press (instant power off).

 

You could try running the computer without the power button. This might also explain why moving the computer causes a shutdown. You may have to power the computer on with the button connected and then quickly unplug it after powering on.

 

I don't know the pinout of the button connection without seeing it, sometimes they run led lights off the same ribbon cable. If it is only 2 wires, you could short the 2 pins to power on/off. DO NOT short any pins if the power button cable has more than 2 leads.


Edited by zingo156, 25 July 2014 - 11:09 AM.

If I am helping you with a problem and I have not responded within 48 hours please send me a PM.

#15 soubuckeye

soubuckeye
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:01:36 AM

Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:43 PM

I was thinking the power button could be a culprit, but I would expect some play in the button and there hasn't been.  Nor have I seen any issue when I've had the system apart.

 

Sadly, I had a series of shutdowns not long after the Ethernet port was "fixed."  Oh well....

 

I am almost leaning back towards some sort of power supply or thermal issue.  The shutdown episodes (and they do seem to usually come in clumps) have started during CPU intensive work (i.e. playing a game) as well as during non-intensive use.  As I type this, I might experience one at any moment, although its now been up and stable about 45 minutes. My wife used it last night to do some business on the web for about 2 hours last night without issue.  But earlier yesterday I played a game for an hour without issue, left, had the system quietly in idle for an hour, came back, played the game for 15 minutes and shutdown.  It could be sitting still on a table and shutdown, I can move it from my lap to a table and it's fine.  Next time, it shuts down.  There truly is no real pattern to all this that I can lock down, and there's no way of knowing if a shutdown during movement or during certain uses is coincidental or indicative of the real problem.  That's what's made this one so frustratingly interesting.  :lol:

 

I have thought of two more possibilities to look into:

 

1. Has anyone ever heard of a problem with the thermal reporting?  For example, the system goes into a thermal protective shutdown because it thinks its too hot when its really not?  OR The sensors are reporting that temps are fine when they're really not?

 

2. How about some sort of a graphics issue?  For example... if the LCD controller is experiencing a power surge causing the shutdowns? 

 

Just shooting at the moon there... but again, you never know.

 

Thanks again.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users