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CPU is too hot


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#1 The Man from Oahu

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 03:40 PM

Hi guys,

 

I think I have too high CPU temperature on my machine.

The CPU is a AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+, motherboard is Asus A8N32-Sli Deluxe.

I have a 120mm fan on the back of the case, extracting hot air from inside.

The CPU stays at 46° (idle, room temperature 26°) with Cool 'n' Quiet and QFan enabled.

This way the computer is way too noisy (fans spin too fast):

CPU fan -> 3276 RPM

PSU fan -> 1147 RPM

Chassis fan -> 1917 RPM

I tried to disable Cool 'n' Quiet and QFan and use Speedfan to control the fans, the computer became much more silent but CPU temperature went up to 52° (idle), I think it's too high.

I also removed the heatsink and cleaned it from all the dust and renewed the thermal paste but nothing changed.

I have been told that when idle the CPU should lower its clock and voltage and mine stays always up.

Is this true? If yes how do I achieve that?

 

Thanks



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#2 Chris Cosgrove

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 05:26 PM

According to CPU World, you are just about at an ideal operating temperature range for this processor, see -

 

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K8/AMD-Athlon%2064%20X2%203800%2B%20-%20ADA3800DAA5BV%20%28ADA3800BVBOX%29.html

 

Given the upper temperature limit of 71C I would only start worrying if the operating temperature under load was routinely above 65C.

 

I have no knowledge about the clock rate at light work loads but I wouldn't expect the supply voltages to fall as these are primarily determined by the PSU - but I am willing to be corrected on thiis point !

 

Chris Cosgrove


Edited by Chris Cosgrove, 10 July 2014 - 05:28 PM.

I am going to be away until about the 22nd October. Time on-line will be reduced and my internet access may be limited. PMs may not be replied to as quickly as normal !


#3 jonuk76

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 09:09 PM

Advanced power saving features do allow for the clock rate and CPU voltage to reduce in CPU's that support it.  Using a program like CPU-z you can see it happening in real time (assuming these features are enabled).  TBH though, I'm not that familiar with AMD's Cool'n'Quiet. With Intel's you have to enable features like Enhanced C1E/C2E and Speed Step in BIOS (they are typically enabled by default anyway).

 

Your power settings in the operating system also make a difference.  For example balanced or power saver modes will enable Cool'n'Quiet in Windows 7, while the high performance setting won't.  Windows XP needs a driver as well as "Minimal Power Management" set as the power scheme for Cool'n'Quiet according to this.

 

Other things that might help temperatures are making the case interior as neat and tidy as possible (try to keep cables from blocking airflow).  You might also consider upgrading the CPU cooler if still too warm.  Efficient coolers with larger fans generate less noise as the fan doesn't need to work as hard to keep the temperatures down.


Edited by jonuk76, 10 July 2014 - 09:14 PM.

7sbvuf-6.png


#4 Frozwire

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 11:12 PM

The CPU stays at 46° (idle, room temperature 26°) with Cool 'n' Quiet and QFan enabled.

 

I tried to disable Cool 'n' Quiet and QFan and use Speedfan to control the fans, the computer became much more silent but CPU temperature went up to 52° (idle), I think it's too high.

Is this true? If yes how do I achieve that?

 

 

What temperatures do you have if you just leave Cool 'n Quiet enabled and QFan disabled?


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#5 cat1092

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 01:30 AM

My old AMD Athlon X2 3250e ran much hotter than that (60-70C) & would still be running if not for the PSU dying, 

 

It could be the fans are noisy from age, or they were of low quality. My first desktop was like this back in 2009, the one awaiting a PSU now, the fan was nice & quiet for about 1-1.5 years, then gradually became louder, It's a cheap HP supplied fan & will probably be replaced, after I see that it runs after replacing the PSU. 

 

I feel that your temps are good though, some AMD chips are known to run hotter than Intel ones. 

 

Cat


Edited by cat1092, 11 July 2014 - 10:05 PM.

Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#6 The Man from Oahu

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:27 PM

According to CPU World, you are just about at an ideal operating temperature range for this processor, see -
 
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K8/AMD-Athlon%2064%20X2%203800%2B%20-%20ADA3800DAA5BV%20(ADA3800BVBOX).html
 
Given the upper temperature limit of 71C I would only start worrying if the operating temperature under load was routinely above 65C.
 
I have no knowledge about the clock rate at light work loads but I wouldn't expect the supply voltages to fall as these are primarily determined by the PSU - but I am willing to be corrected on thiis point !
 
Chris Cosgrove


Well, according to that I am running 3° below the minimum!
Let's say temperatures are ok but the computer is too noisy. I need to stay in that range and reduce the noise.
And yes, I think CPU raises up to that kind of temperature when it is under heavy load (it depends on the ambient temperature too).
I read

In the minimum performance state (P-state) the processor runs at 1000 MHz and 1.1 Volt core voltage. Thermal Design Power in the minimum P-state is 40.1 Watt

According to Wikipedia P-State is Cool'n'Quite (for AMD processors)

Cool'n'Quiet is a CPU speed throttling and power saving technology introduced by AMD with its Athlon 64 processor line. It works by reducing the processor's clock rate and voltage when the processor is idle. The aim of this technology is to reduce overall power consumption and lower heat generation, allowing for slower (thus quieter) cooling fan operation.
[...]
In-order to take advantage of Cool n Quiet Technology in Microsoft's Operating Systems:
- Cool'n'Quiet should be Enabled in system BIOS
- In Windows XP and 2000: Operating Systems "Minimal Power Management" profile must be active in "Power Schemes"

I selected that profile but don't see any change.

@jonuk76
As said, I enabled C'n'Q in the BIOS and the Minimal Power Management scheme but everything looks the same.
I don't know exactly what is the driver you are talking about.
There is a link on that page to get the latest driver but it takes me to a page about gaming. I tried to search the driver on AMD website but I got only links to PDF files. Anyway, I think this driver is installed by default using the CD that came with the MoBo.
As for a new CPU cooler, I thought about it. My doubt is that many are big (and heavy, I think) and the whole thing is held in place by a thin plastic frame.

@Frozwire
I don't know. Can make a try.
 

It could be the fans are noisy from age

I don't think so, they always have been noisy.

or they were of low quality

This I don't know.
The CPU fan is the one that came with the CPU, the PSU is a Enermax Liberty 500W with a 120mm (I think) fan, the chassis fan is a 120mm Cooler Master.

I feel that your temps are good though, some AMD chips are known to run hotter than AMD ones

To be honest I'd like to have them lowered a bit. In any case I get this value at a cost: noise (e.g. if I slower the chassis fan at 50% speed, CPU goes to 50°-52°). Even if the temperatures are ok I need to make it less noisy.

#7 jonuk76

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 07:04 PM

As I understand it, a driver is only necessary on Windows XP.  Not Vista/7/8.  On the Asus website it is avaiable as "ASUS Cool&Quiet Driver V1.2.2.2 for Windows XP/2003" in the download page for your motherboard under "Utilities".  It's probably also on your motherboard CD though.

 

Big or heavy CPU coolers tend to use backplates to hold them in place, which can mean removing the motherboard to fit them.  Less heavy ones may use the standard retention clips.


Edited by jonuk76, 11 July 2014 - 07:07 PM.

7sbvuf-6.png


#8 The Man from Oahu

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 11:20 AM

@Frozwire

With C'n'Q only I get 50°-51°.

 

@jonuk76

Well... I am on XP but I believe that driver is already installed.

I would really like to avoid removing the board to install a cooler (I don't want to cause any trouble).

 

I noticed that PC Probe II (another ASUS utility) reports very strange values of temperatures and voltages in its log (I selected only 2014 entries but it's a long log anyway).

Attached Files



#9 hamluis

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 01:59 PM

IMO...your biggest concern with that CPU...should be its age.  By that, I mean that the original thermal grease and heatsink...may not do the jobs they are supposed to do, compared to when originally installed.

 

If I still had my X2 3800 CPU in use...I'd certainly apply new thermal grease and a newer/better heatsink fan, even if I only went with the stock AMD heatsink/cooler available today.

 

Louis



#10 cat1092

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:07 PM

 

 

I also removed the heatsink and cleaned it from all the dust and renewed the thermal paste but nothing changed.

 

Did you place a very light coating on.....less is more. 

 

About the size of a rice grain or rolled oat (as in oatmeal) is plenty. 

 

To ensure proper spread, simply take a piece of plastic wrap, such as Saran Wrap or similar brand, wrap it around your finger, place the amount above in the center of the CPU, gently spread the paste over the entire surface, just enough to coat the surface, This way you physically see how the paste is spread. Many will place a drop in the middle of the CPU, install/reinstall the fan/heatsink & hope for the best. If this is done with 100% precision, no tilt of the heatsink while replacing, all may very well be fine. 

 

However, all it takes is a small tilt in any direction when seating, a very small one, the paste will spread wrong, may push more to one side, or if the heatsink itself is off center at all, including the clamp pressure, the paste will be uneven, with portions having none. Many times these will simply run at higher temps than normal, other times there will be shutdowns (BSOD's) to save your chip, in extreme instances the chip will be shot. 

 

As to the CPU fan, if you've been running the same one all these years, as Louis points out above, a new fan is likely needed. You can likely find a brand new, unused one for your model from an eBay seller (check reputation & feedback before purchase), you have both eBay & PayPal protection on the transaction. There was a couple of other times I found this component on the Amazon site & everything was perfect (again, check seller reputation). 

 

Or go to a site such as Newegg & get an upgraded one for your model. Some or most of these will require the MB to be removed for the backplate, so if what you want is less work, try to find an OEM one. Depending on model, the fan & heatsink may be one uint, others will be fan only. To be honest, I have more experience with Intel than AMD components of this nature, have only replaced a couple on AMD units, along with the CPU itself. 

 

Here are two new CPU Fan/Heatsink for your model (by the same seller), this is 2-3x that of the CPU alone, of which many are being sold for as little as $9.00. This is how I find many components for repairing computers at low cost. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-ATHLON-64-PROCESSOR-HEATSINK-COOLER-FOR-2800-3800-SOCKET-AM2-940-3-PIN-NEW-/130780344569?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item1e731db0f9

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Athlon-II-X2-Heatsink-CPU-Fan-for-4050e-4450e-4850e-5050e-Socker-AM2-New-/400728165036?_trksid=p2054897.l5665

 

Seller has excellent track record & I always review this before making purchase. 

 

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=original-heatsinks&&_trksid=p2047675.l2560&rt=nc&iid=130780344569&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

 

Good Luck.  :)

 

Cat


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#11 dikbozo

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:08 AM

@Frozwire

With C'n'Q only I get 50°-51°.

 

@jonuk76

Well... I am on XP but I believe that driver is already installed.

I would really like to avoid removing the board to install a cooler (I don't want to cause any trouble).

 

I noticed that PC Probe II (another ASUS utility) reports very strange values of temperatures and voltages in its log (I selected only 2014 entries but it's a long log anyway).

Hmmm. That does look odd. It looks to me like your fans are turning too slow. i used to run several of these BITD. The temps seem high to me, IIRC. I seem to recall the things at idle under XP running @ 35C to 40C. If I understand things correctly, you are still using the orginal fan and heat sink the CPU came with. A standard 3 or 4 pin fan is easy to replace it with. The cost should not be more than $5 or so. A Philips screwdriver. You can reuse the screws but be careful not to strip them.

 

As to the CnQ driver for XP, this version, ASUS Cool''n''Quiet Utility V2.17.06 for Windows XP/XP 64bit/Vista 32bit/Vista 64bit, is available through this page from ASUS:

 

http://support.asus.com/download.aspx?SLanguage=en&p=1&s=21&m=A8N32-SLI+Deluxe&os=&hashedid=qTm2JotIWNbpEVrX

 

It is under the 'Utilities' sub menu.

 

Good luck with this. I love keeping old hardware running.



#12 The Man from Oahu

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:34 PM

Thanks to all for replying.

 

@hamluis

With "thermal grease" are you referring to the thermal paste between the CPU and the heatsink?

If yes, I changed it a couple of months ago (and to be honest, as far as I can understand the old one was still good). As for the heatsink, well... it's a solid piece of aluminium, I am not aware of any possible "aging" issues (not at that temperatures anyway).

Maybe the fan doesn't work as when it was new, I could try to replace it.

 

@cat1092

Yeah, I read a lot before and I used the method you suggest (plastic wrap).

 

Some or most of these will require the MB to be removed for the backplate, so if what you want is less work, try to find an OEM one.

 

It's not a matter of how much work, it's that I wouldn't want to cause major troubles to fix minor issues.

 

@dikbozo

 

That does look odd

 

Are you talking about the log?

If yes, the issue with the PSU fan is that when I power the machine up the fan runs at ~ 930RPM. The threshold value for that fan in PC Probe II was set to 1000, hence all the entries. The fan usually speeds up to more than 1000RPM in a couple of minutes anyway. I reduced the threshhold value to 900. I attached the log because there are other entries that look very strange (e.g. temperature > 100°). When I am in front of the pc I check temperatures often and I have never seen such values.

I just took a log with HWMonitor, there is a 128° value I don't know where it comes from.

 

I love keeping old hardware running.

 

Me too. Other than that I don't have the money to buy a new machine.

Attached Files



#13 Frozwire

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:17 PM

@Frozwire

With C'n'Q only I get 50°-51°.

 

Well, I think you might need to try to replace your stock CPU cooler (FAN and heatsink) with a new compatible CPU cooler for your CPU. Then enable back the Cool 'n Quiet and QFan features.


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#14 cat1092

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:59 PM

 

@Frozwire

With C'n'Q only I get 50°-51°.

 

Well, I think you might need to try to replace your stock CPU cooler (FAN and heatsink) with a new compatible CPU cooler for your CPU. Then enable back the Cool 'n Quiet and QFan features.

 

 

That's what Louis & I also suggested, I provided a couple of links to new units (Fan/Heatsink combo) at the best pricing I could find for new ones. I highly advise Not to mess with used components of this nature. It may be that an aftermarket would cost less, but the OP indicated reluctance in post #6. 

 

I've never had troubles with replacing a stock fan/heatsink with OEM model. Have replaced a couple of Dell plain old aluminum finned block heatsinks with Intel fan/heatsink combo & succeeded, though I did have to tap a HDD power source to make it work. Provided for extra cooling, as the OEM fan was mounted to the rear, with a drop down plastic shield going over the heatsink. Back then, Dell had non-standard MB connections for fans & other accessories. But with some improvising, got the job done & the CPU ran much cooler. 

 

These MB's are a little stronger than they appear, I believe that with being careful, the OEM unit could be swapped with a like one. 

 

Cat


Edited by cat1092, 14 July 2014 - 11:00 PM.

Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#15 The Man from Oahu

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:02 PM

@Frozwire

Well, I could replace it.

Honestly I don't get what kind of aging issues a heatsink (i.e. a piece of aluminium) may have, but if you say so... you know better than me for sure.

My main concern is the weight. As I already said I am very reluctant about removing the board (I wouldn't want to break something in the process).

 

@cat1092

That seller doesn't ship to my Country (Italy).

I have seen some coolers around described as compatible with socket 939 but I suppose it doesn't mean they are compatible with any board with a 939 socket. Besides there are always customers' bad reviews (not compatible as stated, cheap materials, bad design and so on).

I know nothing about quality brands/manufacturers so I am sailing in the dark here.

Can you steer me towards some good options on Italian eBay or Amazon?

 

Something about that 128° in the HWMonitor log?






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