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Mini Build


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#1 xparrot

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 10:43 AM

Hi all.

I'm going to try building a small rig for my father. I've never built a small one myself so I'm a little anxious about it. Not a lot of room to work with but he's not a gamer or anything, so cable management shouldn’t be that bad. All he needs is something capable of surfing, watching YouTube and such. So, no GPU or super-beefy components. His primary concern is longevity; he's had the one he's got now for a decade.

One of my problems is I can't seem to turn off my gamer goggles long enough to consider parts that aren't uber. So, I could use some input. I cant even decide on a case. I'd like to do a cube, so I'm thinking either Rosewill's Legacy V6-B or maybe Corsair's Obsidian 250D. Mini ITX should be good, no?

Anybody build one of these types of rigs before that might have some input as to what parts I should be considering, or tips to avoid problematic installation?

Many thanks in advance.



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#2 defanged

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 08:53 PM

uh oh -- i had the same thought (more or less) a few months ago... turns out - at least in my universe - picking the parts and making them work good (heh) together is way harder when you try to "dumb down". For one thing, when you set out to build an uber komputer that eats ferrarris for lunch, chances are that most - even all - of your bits and pieces.. from case to CPU, are going to be top of the line, quality items that - while hard on your bank account - make for easy assemblage. Also, as you drop component requirement(s), you slowly swim through the warm, shallow water of the harbor of everything included with extra sauce on the side, you will find yourself swimming in the vast ocean of you-get-what-you-pay-for and suddenly screws randomly strip, your motherboard is packaged with the wrong manual, and nothing ever, EVER works on the first try. Way more options in terms of configuration also means that many more opportunities to buy the wrong damn thing.

OK, i'm being melodramatic. but there is some truth there. i did - honestly - find it to be a simpler, less annoying, less damn frustrating experience building my big gamer than the mini-itx i did for my mother after finishing the big one.

as for cases, i rejected both the corsair and the coolermaster and eventually ended up with this: http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Tek-Micro-ATX-Mini-ITX-SG10B/dp/B00CY9596U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1J2A61QRQR307N2KEF4E

which, while not without faults, worked out pretty well.



SETUP, as of 4/14 - Case: Corsair 900D full tower, PSU: corsair 1200 watts, MB: ASUS rampage IV extreme, GPU(s): 3 X Nvidia GeForce GTX 780 hydro copper classified in 3-way SLI , RAM: 64 GB corsair dominator platinum DDR3, CPU: i7 3970X extreme edition @ 3.5 GHz (hexacore), OD: ASUS blu-ray RW, Cooling: EK liquid system, incl. EK waterblock, EK fittings, EK pump, resevoir, coolant misc., generic tubing, Audio: Creative sound blaster Recon3D THX PCIE Fatal1ty Champion sound card, Storage: SSD/HD: 2 X 240 GB samsung SSD (OS - win 7 pro), 1 TB caviar black, 4 TB caviar blue.

#3 Mistersprinkles

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 09:44 PM

uh oh -- i had the same thought (more or less) a few months ago... turns out - at least in my universe - picking the parts and making them work good (heh) together is way harder when you try to "dumb down". For one thing, when you set out to build an uber komputer that eats ferrarris for lunch, chances are that most - even all - of your bits and pieces.. from case to CPU, are going to be top of the line, quality items that - while hard on your bank account - make for easy assemblage. Also, as you drop component requirement(s), you slowly swim through the warm, shallow water of the harbor of everything included with extra sauce on the side, you will find yourself swimming in the vast ocean of you-get-what-you-pay-for and suddenly screws randomly strip, your motherboard is packaged with the wrong manual, and nothing ever, EVER works on the first try. Way more options in terms of configuration also means that many more opportunities to buy the wrong damn thing.

OK, i'm being melodramatic. but there is some truth there. i did - honestly - find it to be a simpler, less annoying, less damn frustrating experience building my big gamer than the mini-itx i did for my mother after finishing the big one.

as for cases, i rejected both the corsair and the coolermaster and eventually ended up with this: http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Tek-Micro-ATX-Mini-ITX-SG10B/dp/B00CY9596U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1J2A61QRQR307N2KEF4E

which, while not without faults, worked out pretty well.

 

That's nonsensical fear mongering in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with low end parts. 

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132098

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113364

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811205011

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148694

 

Shazaam. There's your computer. The Hadron case comes with a gold rated 500W PSU. Or swap it for a Corsair 250D with a Corsair CX500 PSU. 



#4 NickAu

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 10:40 PM

 

There is nothing wrong with low end parts.

So true. And while they may not eat Ferrari's, they work. Why pay for something you dont need? If you dont need a warp core powered GPU why get 1.

Look at my PC specs, Nothing Flash or fancy, Now a lot of people will tell you HP is rubbish, But, I have never had a problem with it,  I added a SSD to it because I wanted 1, My pc is fast and can do everything I use it for, And running Linux ( provided there are no hardware issues) It will still be running in ten years. Just  like my HP Compaq 2510p  http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/hp-compaq-2510p-review/ Is still running strong with puppy linux on it,  It even still has the original battery in it and I can use puppy linux to surf the net watch vids on that battery for around 5 hours.

 

 

suddenly screws randomly strip

Please, Do you think that each company makes it's own screws? No they buy them in bulk from a supplier .

 

 

your motherboard is packaged with the wrong manual

That can happen regardless of price.

 

 

make for easy assemblage

Installing a $150 dollar MoBo is no harder than installing a $700, If the MoBo you just got wont support SATA why get a SATA drive. I really cant see why expensive parts would be easier to assemble than cheaper parts.

 

 

I've never built a small one myself so I'm a little anxious about it

His primary concern is longevity; he's had the one he's got now for a decade.

Go with what Mistersprinkles suggests all I would add to that is 6 or 8 GB ram( For Windows) (4GB is fine for Linux, ) Now if only we could introduce him to Linux say Mint or Ubuntu with KDE he would have a great system that would last for years.


Edited by NickAu1, 20 May 2014 - 10:42 PM.


#5 killerx525

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 01:10 AM

Hi, the system that Mistersprinkles suggested is perfect for your father as it will easily do the tasks that he needs while being low power, silent and reliable due to the Crucial SSD. In terms of RAM, you may as well chuck in 8GB for the sakes of it and the EVGA Hadron case seems solid with it's gold rated power supply. One other note is to remember to include the operating system like Windows 8.1.


Edited by killerx525, 21 May 2014 - 01:11 AM.

>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#6 xparrot

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 11:51 AM

Wow. Thanks to all, I always get the best help when I come here. Granted, it tends to be so long in between visits that I have to make a new user account, but I'm just saying.

It'll take me a bit to process all this, so I'm sure I'll come back with follow ups...

In fact, I think I have two already:

  1. 4g of ram wouldn't cut it for win7 with this build? Not that its a big deal price-wise nowadays, but I'm just curious.

  2. I neglected to mention he's kind of an Intel loyalist, long story, but if I needed to go that route...

Thanks again all.



#7 Mistersprinkles

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 12:40 PM

Wow. Thanks to all, I always get the best help when I come here. Granted, it tends to be so long in between visits that I have to make a new user account, but I'm just saying.

It'll take me a bit to process all this, so I'm sure I'll come back with follow ups...

In fact, I think I have two already:

  1. 4g of ram wouldn't cut it for win7 with this build? Not that its a big deal price-wise nowadays, but I'm just curious.

  2. I neglected to mention he's kind of an Intel loyalist, long story, but if I needed to go that route...

Thanks again all.

 

4G of RAM will cut it for minimal use as an internet appliance and basic office tasks, but I wouldn't run 4GB. 8GB as a minimum is what I'd suggest these days. Intel/AMD loyalists are knuckle heads. There is a good time to buy Intel and a good time for AMD. If you have $340 to spend on a CPU, get a 4770K. When you want to spend under $90 on the CPU, an AMD APU is the way to go 100%. Just lie to him and tell him it's an intel system. If you go Intel you'll be looking at a celeron or Pentium for more money without gaining any performance. AMD RULES the low end and Intel rules the high end. That's how it goes. 



#8 xparrot

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 02:29 PM

I see. That's those two out of the way then. Thanks.

Another thing that comes up now is the optical drive; he will want one. That EVGA case, as lovely as it is, has that side-loading slim. He's not fond of it, and I've not ever fooled with installing such. I'm having trouble finding one at all in my initial searches, but that probabaly says more about me than anything else.

He's also dissatisfied with the width of the Corsair case, so that is no longer an option... Nor is the Rosewill for the same reason, so I’m going to have to keep looking.

Thanks again, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions later.



#9 Mistersprinkles

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 03:05 PM

 

 

Tell him he has to choose between the Hadron and the 250D or suck it. There are no better ITX cases. In the case of the 250D he can keep it for a future high performance rig as it'll accomodate significant cooling options. 

 

What's wrong with a slot loading slim optical drive? Get one off Newegg. Or get an external optical drive. Problem solved. The Hadron is the best choice for compactness while still retaining upgradeability and the ability to install moderate sized air coolers. 

 

Don't go to another case. They're inferior designs. Hadron and 250D are the best things to happen to ITX since ITX became a thing. 

 

Given the compactness of what you're buying (No GPU, no aftermarket cooling, no multiple HDDs), I think the hadron with a slot load or external optical drive is your best bet. You can fit a Hadron (almost) in the footprint of an ATX power supply. Who wouldn't want that? Plus it has a sexy window on the side.


Edited by Mistersprinkles, 21 May 2014 - 03:07 PM.


#10 killerx525

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 04:09 PM

He's also dissatisfied with the width of the Corsair case, so that is no longer an option... Nor is the Rosewill for the same reason, so I’m going to have to keep looking.

 

So he does not like cubed cases or is it just those cube designs he dislikes?


>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#11 xparrot

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 12:23 PM

Sorry, I'd quote but I can't remember how to do that at the moment...

But to reply, it's not a question of the design aesthetics, but simply the space in which he has to place it. While I would personally love to build using that 250D, I'm reminded of something...

Say you want to cook someone a dinner, to do them a favor or express a fondness of one form or another. If they dislike onions, are you going to make them your famous Philly Cheesesteak and tell them to suck it because it's hands-down your best dish? I'm being facetious but surely you catch my drift. The case is the one thing I really have to make sure he likes and suits all his needs and wants, or I will simply have to admit that I'm really just cooking for myself. The parts inside are not nearly as much of a concern for him (even though he does like Intel) but the case is another story.

I'm currently running the Xigmatek Aquila and BitFenix Prodigy by him for approval. I really hope he digs the Prodigy because it seems like a good case for him, but in the end it's his call.

BRB and thanks again.



#12 xparrot

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:56 AM

Okay, it took some effort but I've got him to agree to the SilverStone PS07. Not as much fun as a cube, but it seems a solid case and suits him.

I think what I really need now is some more input on a CPU/MB combo. The ones mentioned looked very good of course, but I do have more room in my budget.

My main concern in choosing these components is their long-term viability, as I mentioned. I don't want to be upgrading/reparing this thing for quite some time for many reasons.

Also, I really want it to blow him away with the speed at which he can operate versus his current rig. I'm not really looking for the current price/performance sweet spot as many do, but really good performance for at least a reasonable price. I don't think I'll be talking him into playing bleeding-edge games or anything, but if the rig could manage a moderate amount of capability that wouldn't hurt. I don't what the thing to run hot though. It doesn't need to be a power sipper, but I don't want him to notice a change in his electricity bill either ...What's the opinion here of the FM2 socket? Anyway, I appreciate any further advice from those who've not grown weary of me yet.



#13 killerx525

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:51 AM

In terms of long-term viability, it would be worth the extra cost to get a premium grade motherboard as it utilises high end components, meaning it should last pretty long. The FM2+ platform would be do the trick as it can provide more then enough then the requirements plus it will sip on little power. For the cooling, something like the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo and replace the stock fan with a Noctua NF-F12 for maximum reliability and silent operation. The Seasonic SS-400FL2 is a 400W, Platinum efficiency power supply that will help power the system while being silent as it has no fan to it and it is all backed by a whooping 7 year warranty. 


>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#14 NickAu

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:17 PM

To quote you 2 times.

 

The ones mentioned looked very good of course, but I do have more room in my budget

 

 

One of my problems is I can't seem to turn off my gamer goggles long enough to consider parts that aren't uber.

LOL


Edited by NickAu1, 23 May 2014 - 08:17 PM.


#15 Mistersprinkles

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:26 PM

 

 

When I said to tell him to suck it, I simply meant that you should explain, knowing better than him, reasons why the 250D is one of the most optimal cases to build in, etcetera. Sorry if you were offended.

 

The FM2 socket has more powerful (but also more power hungry) options available. An A10 would be quite capable both graphically and in just plain computation. If you really want to blow him away though, you should be looking at a Maximus VI Impact with a 4670K and a fast SSD like a Samsung 840 EVO of considerable capacity. 

 

A10 7850K

Gigabyte F2A88XN

2x8GB DDR3 2133 (faster RAM helps APU's integrated graphics operate faster)

Samsung 840 EVO 250GB

Western Digital Black 1TB

 

OR

 

i5 4670K

asus maximus VI impact

2x8GB DDR3 1866

Samsung 840 EVO 240GB

Western Digital Black 1TB

Large aftermarket cooler of your choice (get a case that'll fit it)

(optional) GTX 760 2GB


Edited by Mistersprinkles, 23 May 2014 - 10:27 PM.





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