Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Minimum Wage Battle


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 jcta79

jcta79

  • Members
  • 75 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:07:31 AM

Posted 30 April 2014 - 12:45 PM

Good Afternoon Bleepers,

          I just saw an article @ yahoo about how Congress turned down the bill to raised up minimum wage. 

http://news.yahoo.com/senate-gop-blocks-dems-minimum-163709956.html

 

I am for the lower and middle class making more money. I see the debate always ending in a Political battle between our two parties. 

 

What is wrong with raising minimum wage and why?

 

I would like a healthy debate on why it is good/not good to raise the minimum wage. I know someone may mess it up for the rest of us but please lets keep it civil and give me your thoughts and reason as to why we should or shouldn't raise the minimum wage.

 

My thoughts: I think we should raise the minimum wage because people are living on or below the poverty line. I watched a documentary called "Inequality for all" by Robert Reich. I thought it was very informative. It looks like the rich is getting richer and the poor is getting poorer. I would like your opinions and reasons.

 

 

Thank You



BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


m

#2 rotor123

rotor123

  • Moderator
  • 8,091 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Local time:07:31 AM

Posted 30 April 2014 - 01:32 PM

I'll give You my personal Opinions

1. Minimum wage jobs are starter jobs and should not be considered a living wage.

2. Raising the Minimum Wage Will reduce employment opportunities.

I base that on this: http://www.cbo.gov/publication/44995

Notice that part I bolded. This is not a desirable result in my opinion. This is direct from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO)

Quote


Increasing the minimum wage would have two principal effects on low-wage workers. Most of them would receive higher pay that would increase their family’s income, and some of those families would see their income rise above the federal poverty threshold. But some jobs for low-wage workers would probably be eliminated, the income of most workers who became jobless would fall substantially, and the share of low-wage workers who were employed would probably fall slightly.

The increased earnings for low-wage workers resulting from the higher minimum wage would total $31 billion

Just 19 percent of the $31 billion would accrue to families with earnings below the poverty threshold.

29 percent would accrue to families earning more than three times the poverty threshold.

 

3. When the Minimum wage is raised many other hourly worker will want a similar raise, Thus raising costs for everybody or forcing the employer to reduce staff to compensate for the increased cost.

 

Roger


Fortune Cookie says: Fortune not Found: Abort, Retry, Ignore?

Sent from my All-In-One Desktop. Perfect for Internet, Not for heavy usage or gaming however.

How Does a computer get Infected? http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/2520/how-did-i-get-infected/
Forum Rules,    The BC Welcome Guide

167 @ June 2015


#3 jcta79

jcta79
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 75 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:07:31 AM

Posted 30 April 2014 - 03:10 PM

Rotor123 I agree with you that minimum wage jobs are start jobs, but in reality those start jobs are what keep the world go round. You say increasing minimum wage would reduce employment opportunities, how so? 

 

Also by raising the minimum wage, other people would want a raise also. I think its only fair. It depends on which side you are on. 



#4 ElfBane

ElfBane

  • Members
  • 775 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Local time:08:31 AM

Posted 30 April 2014 - 03:24 PM

Scrap the minimum wage... Implement the guaranteed income.

(this probably tells which side I'm on)



#5 rotor123

rotor123

  • Moderator
  • 8,091 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Local time:07:31 AM

Posted 30 April 2014 - 04:07 PM

Hi

If You go to the page I linked from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) You can see the entire thing.

I know some business owners and they all pretty much say the same thing. If they have to start paying a higher wage they'll have to figure out how to get by with less people or reduce the hours of the current workers.

 

I also am guessing that if the Minimum wage was raised for the whole country then costs would go up and Any buying power would be back where it was before the minimum wage and possibly even lower if it caused the income tax bracket to go so You are paying a higher percentage of Your earnings.

 

For example http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022905775_seatacprop1xml.html

SeaTac’s closely watched experiment with a $15 minimum wage has not created a large chain reaction of lost jobs and higher prices, nor has it led to an embrace of union membership.

Six weeks after the new hourly minimum standard took effect at some hotels and parking lots in SeaTac, proponents and opponents alike say any evidence to gauge its impact is still anecdotal.

 

And on the other side of the coin

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/30/highest-in-nation-15-minimum-wage-stirs-concern-from-local-businesses/

On Jan. 1, an estimated 1,600 hotel and transportation workers in SeaTac, Wash., will see their pay jump to $15 an hour, a 60 percent increase from the state's $9.32 minimum wage. 

While many workers look forward to the higher pay, employers are looking for ways to absorb the big increase in labor costs. Some plan on eliminating jobs. 

"We're going to be looking at making some serious cuts," said Cedarbrook Lodge General Manager Scott Ostrander. "We're going to be looking at reducing employee hours, reducing benefits and eliminating some positions."

 

It is definitely bad news for anyone on a fixed income when costs go up.

Roger

 

 


Fortune Cookie says: Fortune not Found: Abort, Retry, Ignore?

Sent from my All-In-One Desktop. Perfect for Internet, Not for heavy usage or gaming however.

How Does a computer get Infected? http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/2520/how-did-i-get-infected/
Forum Rules,    The BC Welcome Guide

167 @ June 2015


#6 jcta79

jcta79
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 75 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:07:31 AM

Posted 30 April 2014 - 04:16 PM

@rotor123

 

       I'm not a business owner yet, I want to open my own PC repair shop, but that is another topic. Anyways some business owners say raise the wage so they keep the employees happy, if you have a happy employee, then you have a happy business, for the most part. I think the whole minimum wage argument is much much bigger. You pointed out that Scott Ostrander is going to reduce employee hours, reduce benefits etc... But why? I think that is where the whole minimum wage situation is on a larger scale. My personal opinion is America is trying to compete with the rest of the world with import/export. We import more than export. Who does that benefit? I also believe current laws are hurting the common folk. 



#7 mjd420nova

mjd420nova

  • Members
  • 1,607 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:04:31 AM

Posted 30 April 2014 - 05:25 PM

Has anyone thought far enough ahead to think what this will do to INFLATION. ?   At this point, inflation as the consumer sees it, it around 3% a year, the government says only 1% and then lags that by a year for COLA. 



#8 Kilroy

Kilroy

  • BC Advisor
  • 3,284 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Launderdale, MN
  • Local time:06:31 AM

Posted 01 May 2014 - 01:31 PM

I'm with rotor123.

 

1.  Minimum wage jobs are starter jobs and should not be considered a living wage.

2.  Raising the minimum wage is a short term fix that will result in multiple long term issues.

      a.  Everyone else will want a raise.  Imagine that you make $12.50 now and all of a sudden you are now equal to those you were out earning.

      b.  Costs will go up, or companies profits will go down.  Even if you need all of the people you have you can't continue to make the same profits if you have to pay your employees more.  So you either take lesser profits, raise your prices, or save money on employee costs (i.e. everyone part time to avoid paying benefits).

 

The long term solution is education, either formal or on the job.  If you don't want to learn, then you're going to learn to suffer.



#9 Orange Blossom

Orange Blossom

    OBleepin Investigator


  • Moderator
  • 36,722 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Bloomington, IN
  • Local time:07:31 AM

Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:25 PM

Not all minimum wage jobs, or barely above, are in food service.  There's a lot of them in health care too.  Caregivers, of which there is much need, do not earn nearly enough for what they do.  In many places, they earn just barely above minimum wage, and these are not starter jobs.

 

~ OB :cherry:


Help us help you. If HelpBot replies, you MUST follow step 1 in its reply so we know you need help.

Orange Blossom

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

SpywareBlaster, WinPatrol Plus, ESET Smart Security, Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware, NoScript Firefox ext., Norton noscript

#10 jcta79

jcta79
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 75 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:07:31 AM

Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:32 PM

I agree with Orange Blossom with the Caregivers, because my sister is a one herself and she should get paid a lot more than what is she getting paid. Inflation keeps going up, and wages stay the same. Do you think people  with these "Starter Jobs" are going to stay in these jobs? I highly doubt it. You are always going to need people for these "Starter Jobs", so if wage doesn't go up then who else will take these jobs?



#11 TuckInTN

TuckInTN

  • Members
  • 10 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:06:31 AM

Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:12 PM

Had a debate about this with one of my employees.  I can tell you from first hand experience helping run a family owned business (restaurant) that raising minimum wage would affect prices directly.  We don't typically have all of our employees at minimum, we try to raise pay based on performance, but with the last increase in minimum wage we had to do an across the board increase in our prices as well.  We run our payroll at roughly 25% of our sales (which is actually pretty high), and don't have a lot of room for having to raise everyone's pay that much as quickly as what the politicians are pushing for.

 

On the other hand I think it's shameful that we spend so much time debating the minimum wage instead of focusing on how do we find ways to create more decent paying jobs.  If there were more of the jobs that paid $12-$18 per hour, such as base skill manufacturing) the minimum wage issue would be solved without regulation.  More people employed in decent jobs means a more competitive market for job-seekers in that bottom rung, which in turn leads to better starting pay.

 



#12 Bezukhov

Bezukhov

    Bleepin' Jazz Fan!


  • Members
  • 2,555 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Providence, R.I.
  • Local time:07:31 AM

Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:00 AM

The biggest reason why TPTB want an increase in the minimum wage is that they are salivating over the increased income taxes that an increase would garner.
To err is Human. To blame it on someone else is even more Human.

#13 LOVEMYPC

LOVEMYPC

  • Members
  • 649 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:05:31 AM

Posted 03 May 2014 - 09:16 PM

HI, Heres food for thought,if our glorious leaders in WASHINGTON,DC had bothered to think ahead i.e. the future and put lets say a 3% increase per year since the minimum wage was put into effect people now a days would see their wages close to what WA. STATE minimum wage is right now the ,the way it is now it will be almost impossible to get wages up to where people need them to be because it is such a huge increase that a business could not afford it all at once thats why SEA-TAC is fazing it in over quite a few years.

There some mention by one the posters about the (cost of living increases) you may not know it but the cost of housing has not been used in the COLA figures for over 40years and our glorious leaders in WASHINGTON,DC have decided to remove the cost of FOOD,FUEL TO GET TO WORK when take those three things out of the COLA YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER PIECE OF FICTION COMING OUT OF WASH.,DC.



#14 czarboom

czarboom

  • Members
  • 608 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central Texas
  • Local time:07:31 AM

Posted 04 May 2014 - 06:23 AM

Minimum wage has to go up in America.  The levels of wealth for the super-rich are higher right now than it was in the 1900's before the great depression.  If you go back to 1968, workers then earned $10 a hr. in today’s pay.  We don’t even allow for that now.  Canada has passed us as the Strongest Middle class in the world and they have increased pay 20% since 2000 till now.  But, the best case for this is in San Francisco, CA.

 

This city starting in 2003 to increase the Minimum wage , and according to studies by Berkeley the following are true:


 

  • 77,500 low-wage workers are receiving higher pay; the minimum wage law alone put $1.2 billion in the pockets of workers
  • 59,000 workers can stay home from work when they or a loved one is sick without risk of losing a job or a paycheck
  • More people have access to health care—three-quarters of city employers have invested more in health care

You can read the whole report here.

Rotor123, the look at the CBO report also included the following benefits as well:

For family income overall and for various income groups, CBO estimates the following:

  • Once the increases and decreases in income for all workers are taken into account, overall real income would rise by $1 billion.
  • Real income would increase, on net, by about $1 billion for families whose income will be below the poverty threshold under current law, boosting their average family income by about 1 percent and moving about 300,000 people, on net, above the poverty threshold.
  • Families whose income would have been between one and three times the poverty threshold would receive, on net, $3 billion in additional real income. About $1 billion, on net, would go to families whose income would have been between three and six times the poverty threshold.
  • Real income would decrease, on net, by $4 billion for families whose income would otherwise have been six times the poverty threshold or more, lowering their average family income by about 0.1 percent

 

Overall, the thought that raising wages will result in losing jobs is only initially true.  Over the period of a year that is not the case, anywhere this has happened.  In countries where the middle class is the strongest, the country does the best.  In countries where the wage income gap is the greatest from rich to poor, these countries (USA) do the worse.

 

Bottom line, places that give more money to the employees and adjust for this each year or so, have more money in the economy, and this is the key factor in lateral movement as well as vertical movement in class and income levels.  The secondary benefit is when more people make more the tax base grows, and kids enjoy better schools, roads are fixed, and services are updated and restored.  If you want gigabyte internet as the standard in the US, then the money has to come from somewhere.

 

Think about this, in 1968 minimum wage could provide for a family of 4 in the United States.  Try doing that today working at Walmart.... we have to have this, because right now, most kids can’t afford college and have no backup plan that can pay enough to live on.


CZARBOOM 
 
"Never Stop Asking Questions, Question Your Environment, Question Your Government, above all Question Yourself.  We all lose when you Stop asking Why?

#15 jcta79

jcta79
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 75 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:07:31 AM

Posted 10 May 2014 - 04:23 PM

I think we are getting to the point in our society that minimum wage jobs aren't what they were used to be. Globalization has really hurt everyone in a certain aspect. Businesses going over seas to things made, then have us buy it. If that is the case then what type of jobs are viable in the U.S.? I see commercials about how certain things are made in America, but how long is that going to last? Technology also had taken out the manual labor in certain areas for example the 3D printer. If you aren't willing to pay the people who are performing these "so called starter jobs" then who will you pay? Robots, other countries. If other countries then eventually they would want to get paid more for what they are doing. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users