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Do you need a clean install of windows 8 to make recovery disc?


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#1 signofzeta

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:07 AM

I have a Asus F50sv laptop that runs an OEM windows vista, and the laptop was bundled with a recovery disc.

 

I have another laptop, Asus N56jr that runs OEM windows 8, and it does not come with a recovery disc, and I saw a lot of unboxing videos of this laptop model, and none of them had a recovery disc.  You are supposed to make the recovery discs yourself.

 

I already installed some stuff and used the laptop a little, but I didn't make the discs yet.  If I make the discs now, would it basically recover everything in the laptop as is, that is, with all the games, or any malware or any files that may have been added, or does the recovery disc contain only whatever it contains when you first boot up the OEM windows 8 laptop for the first time?

 

Could I technically create the recovery DVD's after 3 years of usage in that laptop?

 

Basically, did I pull off a stupid move by not making the recovery discs first?

 

 

Ok.  I checked my laptop, and it doesn't have the Al Recovery Burner to make recovery discs, and there is no recovery partition.  Just a partition called "data" that contains absolutely nothing in it, meaning that if that laptop hard drive dies on me, I can't reinstall the OEM windows 8, because it has no tools to make recovery discs nor does it have a recovery partition.


Edited by signofzeta, 27 April 2014 - 03:03 AM.


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#2 czarboom

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 03:14 AM

Hello,

To answer your questions Yes, you make the recovery Disc, or USB.  If you look in your system tools you should have the option of a system recovery by manufacture.  If you do not don't worry.  Windows will create a system recovery disc with the Windows Backup program in the Control Panel. 

 

You can also use tools like Clonezilla if you want to.

 

 

Could I technically create the recovery DVD's after 3 years of usage in that laptop?

 

Basically, did I pull off a stupid move by not making the recovery discs first?

Yes you could.

No you did not.  Its not stupid at all.  I would run all Microsoft Updates, and update Java, Flash, and Office etc.  Then do a System Backup and Recovery disc which again is all done at the same time. 

Click here for a How to on System Recovery/Repair Disc in Windows 8.

Click here for info on system Image,  Recovery Options and what they do, and how to get to them in Windows 8.

 

If you need more help please ask.

Good Luck


CZARBOOM 
 
"Never Stop Asking Questions, Question Your Environment, Question Your Government, above all Question Yourself.  We all lose when you Stop asking Why?

#3 signofzeta

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 03:36 AM

If I first created a system image of my windows 8 laptop, that I purchased a couple weeks ago, 3 years into the future, meaning that I probably would have accumulated some malware and viruses, installed a lot of games, and probably made changes to the system, wouldn't system image basically make an image of windows 8 including all those games I installed, and the malware I will probably accumulate?

 

What I'm really asking is that if I create the recovery disc, or use system image, will it burn onto the disc, or make an image of the games I installed, and the malware I will accumulate onto the hard drive of the computer?

 

It would really be bad if I decide to make recovery discs when my hard drive is failing, which may happen 5 years down the line, while the hard drive would probably be infested with malware, and that the recovery discs also would contain this malware.

 

What I'm saying is that most programs that make recovery discs do so with the image of the hard drive as is, that is, if you have a virus, the recovery discs will have a virus.  What I am asking now is are there programs that make an image of the factory reset version of windows 8, without having to do a factory reset?

 

Does anyone have a Asus laptop with a preinstalled windows 8?  I heard they all don't have the Ai recovery burner program needed to make recovery discs, and mine doesn't have a recovery partition, and I heard from other Asus users that the whole "F9" at startup to start recovery doesn't work.


Edited by signofzeta, 27 April 2014 - 03:47 AM.


#4 czarboom

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 04:14 AM

Depending on the maker of the Image Clone program it can grab a bad or infected system.  That is why NOW you make one.  This way no matter what you have a good clean Image to go back to.  For your data you need to do weekly backups to a external HDD. 

 

If say 5 yrs from now you get a virus on your machine, then using the restore option in windows 8 will allow you to roll back your computer to yesterday, or last week.  This gets rid of most malware then you can make a image and backup your files.  Then reinstall your OS or image of it.  Reload the files, and no issue.

 

Overall, you should always make a rescue disc, recovery image or disk as store them somewhere safe.  Then do a daily recovery point.  and a weekly backup of changed files.

If anything happens to your machine you will always be able to go back to your last good point.

 

If you get a virus say in 2 yrs, by going back to a good recovery point from a week ago or so, you will loose some files but still be able to download virus tools to stop it and go on with life.

 

F9 will not work at recovery because of how windows 8 reboots.  You either have to power down, disconnect the battery or unplug it, drain the reserve charge (usually without a battery in Power and ENTER, or Space bar or clicking the mouse pad).  Then start it back up

Or what you do is follow this guide located herehttp://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/advanced-startup-options-menu-in-windows-8/

 

What I am asking now is are there programs that make an image of the factory reset version of windows 8, without having to do a factory reset?

You can get the .iso from your manufacture, or a .iso with windows 8 on it from anywhere.  But, you don't need that being a few weeks out.  Just make your image and it will be your factory image.  Now if you want your factory settings you can.

  • make a current image right now of you system.
  • factory reset or roll back with restore to the oldest point you can find.
  • Make a image of the factory settings
  • Install the Current image from step one to update your device to today's settings and files.

but as far as a catch all program that any system can use, no I dont know of any

NOTE:  When making a system Image, go into BIOS and disable secure boot.  This can and will mess up all imaging software unless they say otherwise, same goes with BIOS passwords as well.


CZARBOOM 
 
"Never Stop Asking Questions, Question Your Environment, Question Your Government, above all Question Yourself.  We all lose when you Stop asking Why?

#5 signofzeta

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 05:07 AM

I see that windows 8 gives you an option to make a recovery flash drive.  I also have a bunch of games installed on that laptop.  If that is true, and I make the recovery flash drive right now, and the hard drive fails in 5+ years, and I recover everything on the flash drive into a new hard drive, will those games I installed be on the new hard drive?



#6 czarboom

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 05:20 AM

that depends on if the backup from windows saves them.  Assuming it does, and they are not corrupted then yes.  When you do the back up do let windows auto select items for it.  Grab what you want.  Grab your games, docs, music, files,

 

Usually you need to grab items in the following locations for the user your logged in as:

  • download folder
  • desktop
  • my documents
  • my pictures
  • my music
  • my video

That is where about 80% of all files people want are located at.  Now if you run itunes or anything else you use and save too, see where that program is saving too.  Go and grab those. 

If you have more than one user account on there, grab the info from each account. 

For a long time I would do this to another drive, then I run a backup from windows auto enabled. 

Now, I get clonezilla, and make a full image backup to a external drive.  Then I do Kaspersky or Windows backups to a external but only for certain folders as then change.  This gives me a good system restore image, and backups of all my files.  Plus if they are super important I burn them to DVD and store in a fire proof save.

 

does that answer your question?


CZARBOOM 
 
"Never Stop Asking Questions, Question Your Environment, Question Your Government, above all Question Yourself.  We all lose when you Stop asking Why?

#7 scotty_ncc1701

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 03:54 PM

When you say "OEM windows vista, and the laptop was bundled with a recovery disc", I'm taking that you mean a recovery partition.  When using the recovery option, it then resets your computer to factory specs, using the image on the recovery partition.

The answer then is yes, you can create recovery disks, from the recovery partition, because the program will read your recovery partition to create the disks.  I created recovery disks for my Windows 8.0 computer, before I NUKED and Paved it with a boxed copy of Windows 8.1.  However, most computer manufacturers that allow you to do this, only allows you to do it one time.

From my computer manufacturer's website:

* The Recovery Media Creation software program allows only one complete set of discs to be created.
* The Recovery Media Creation software program requires an uncorrupted recovery partition (Recovery Image (D:)) to create a set of discs.

If you're talking about Norton Ghost, Paragon Backup and Recovery, Macrium, etc, then the answer is no.  These programs make an image of your existing hard drive, as is.



#8 signofzeta

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 04:19 PM

I have two laptops.  One runs a preinstalled windows vista, and the other runs a preinstalled windows 8.

 

The windows vista laptop actually comes with a recovery disc.  It also has 2 partitions, one C drive that contains windows vista, and one D drive that contains absolutely nothing.  At this point in time, it has been 5 years since I purchased that laptop, and that D drive already has some games installed on it.

 

The windows 8 laptop does not contain a recovery disc.  It has 2 partitions, one C drive that contains windows 8, and one D drive that contains absolutely nothing.

 

I am unsure, but do you have to make a recovery partition?  The partition where windows isn't installed is called DATA, not RECOVERY.

 

Really what I meant by OEM was the windows that is preinstalled in laptops or desktops you buy from a store. Isn't that what OEM is supposed to be?

 

 

Let me ask you this.  When your laptop hard drive dies, do you just buy a brand new laptop?  Do you keep the old laptop but replace the hard drive?  If you replace the hard drive, do you just buy a new copy of windows, or do you try to use the recovery discs to recover the one that is preinstalled on the laptop?

 

Would it be better in the long term to just buy a retail copy of windows? For me I wished I did that, because there is one game that runs well on XP, but doesn't work on Vista, 7, or 8, so maybe I should have bought XP when it was still out, or maybe 7 professional.  I guess owning retail copies has its benefits as you can basically install them in the second partition and use a virtual machine, considering that the likelihood that the programs running now, probably won't run properly in windows 15 or whatever it will be called.

 

I really really hope that window 9 contains something that makes windows XP or older programs run fine on it, and has something built in to emulate the correct speed of the program, that is, your computer is too fast, so your games run too fast, so windows 9 contains something that would slow the game down.  Microsoft would get a lot of cash if they made an OS that is compatible with every single older software.



#9 scotty_ncc1701

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 05:47 PM

Your files may be hidden on the recovery partition.  Open the file manager, and show hidden files/folders, and see if you then see anything.  However, you shouldn't mess with the partition until you create the recover disks, or you confirm that there's nothing there.

As for having to create a restore partition, that is done by the computer manufacturer.  So the answer would be no.  If you have the recovery CD's, you don't need the recovery partition.  You'd have to check with the manufacturer (or their site), maybe (I DON'T KNOW), after creating the recovery disks, you may not be able to use the recovery partition.

When I did a NUKE AND PAVE, I created three paritions. "C_SYSTEM", "INSTALLS", AND "PARAGON".

1.  C_SYSTEM - Operating system, installed files, etc.
2.  INSTALLS - Copies of all my installed programs.  They'd installed from here.
3.  PARAGON - Paragon system images.  Then I makes copies on two external HDD.

On hard drive failures.  Presuming there's nothing else wrong with the computer, you can replace the drive just like a desktop.  I suggest the same make, although that's not written in stone.

As for "I really really hope that window 9 contains something that makes windows XP or older programs run fine on it...", I HAVE MY DOUBTS, especially .NET stuff.  Programs that use .NET 1.X can't be ran on Windows 8, and you have to manually install .NET 2 AND .NET 3.

Hope this helped.

Good luck.
 



#10 signofzeta

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 06:21 PM

My laptop does not have a hidden recovery partition.



#11 Agouti

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 06:23 PM

Firstly, does your laptop have Windows 8 or 8.1?  This is important because the procedures are slightly different depending on the version.

 

Secondly, let's get some terminology straight.  In Windows 8 or 8.1 what used to be known as a System Repair Disk is now known as a Recovery Drive.

 

Now to answer some of your questions:

  1. Your laptop should have a partition that contains an OEM or factory recovery partition.  You cannot see it in Explorer because it's hidden.  Manufacturers do not provide factory restore disks now - instead they create this partition for factory recovery purposes.  I don't know of any manufacturer who make laptops now without that partition.  You can see all the partitions on your hard drive (including the OEM one) if you open Disk Management from the WinX menu as an Administrator.
  2. If you create a Recovery Drive, as part of the procedure, you will be asked whether you want to include the contents of this Recovery Partition in the Recovery Drive.  If you include it you will also have the option to delete that partition in order to recover the space for other uses.  I suggest you don't delete it.  A Recovery Drive will not include any programs you installed, personal files or malware.  It contains tools to help you repair Windows and the factory image (if you include it) and nothing else.  Whether you create one now or 5 years later doesn't make a difference except if you need it to repair an unbootable Windows and didn't take the precaution to make one.
  3. Windows 8 and 8.1 also has a feature to create a System Image without having to use 3rd party software.  Its disavantage is there aren't many options to configure it like you can with 3rd party software.  A System Image will naturally include everything on the partitions you image, including your installed programs and files, and any malware.
  4. Windows 8 and 8.1 has 2 features called Reset and Refresh.  The former will restore your computer to factory condition, and the latter will re-install Windows but keep all your files and settings.  Also, in a Refresh, any programs you installed will not be restored.
  5. To protect yourself from a failed hard drive you can use a free 3rd party program like Paragon Backup & Restore to clone or make an image of your entire hard drive and restore it to the replacement hard drive.  A replacement hard drive must be of the same size or bigger.


#12 signofzeta

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 06:52 PM

My laptop has windows 8.

 

I checked disk management, and there is indeed some recovery partitions.

 

One is a 20.1GB recovery partition, and the other is as a 900MB recovery partition.

 

I also see a partition that is an EFI system partition.  What is this partition?

 

If I remember correctly, my other laptop that runs vista does not have a recovery partition.  It has a recovery disc that comes with it though.

 

Because I have this recovery partition, the only way to not be able to recover files using this partition is physical hard drive failure correct?



#13 czarboom

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 01:30 AM

when you boot your computer up start hitting F10 before you hit the power button and hit it as fast as you can, with luck it will take you to a system recovery option.  You can exit out, but that is where its at.  Windows 8 started to hid that, and you have to be signed in as the Manufacture Admin account which is hidden also.  To clairify that:

  • your admin account is not the true admin account, its just a user account with admin rights.
  • the manufacture / microsoft has a Super User hidden Admin account in Windows 7 and 8.  Its not recommended you enable this, but look in the how to guide on this site and there is a step by step for it.

 

The windows vista laptop actually comes with a recovery disc.  It also has 2 partitions, one C drive that contains windows vista, and one D drive that contains absolutely nothing.  At this point in time, it has been 5 years since I purchased that laptop, and that D drive already has some games installed on it.

Yes, Vista did come with them, and some Windows 7 computers did too, like Dell it was a Green or Red reinstall disc.  Windows 8 does not come with them.  This is because the OS in Windows 8 places a Key inside the BIOS and you cannot install another OS on there until that Key code is removed from the BIOS.  This is only for OEM Windows 8 systems.  If you upgraded to Windows 8 no issues.  So you will have to make you recovery / reinstall disc through the windows backup tool in control panel.

 

 

Let me ask you this.  When your laptop hard drive dies, do you just buy a brand new laptop?  Do you keep the old laptop but replace the hard drive?  If you replace the hard drive, do you just buy a new copy of windows, or do you try to use the recovery discs to recover the one that is preinstalled on the laptop?

If I had a HDD issue and it was broken I would try to boot from a disc (recovery) and then get the files off.  But your correct, you would get a new HDD and restore the files from your old drive on the new one.  That is also why a lot of Windows 8 computers are coming with a small SSD for boot and OS.  That way when you lose your main drive it still works.

 

 

Would it be better in the long term to just buy a retail copy of windows? For me I wished I did that, because there is one game that runs well on XP, but doesn't work on Vista, 7, or 8, so maybe I should have bought XP when it was still out, or maybe 7 professional.  I guess owning retail copies has its benefits as you can basically install them in the second partition and use a virtual machine, considering that the likelihood that the programs running now, probably won't run properly in windows 15 or whatever it will be called.

You don't need a new copy of windows, did you try running the program in the compatibility mode?  Here is a video from Microsoft about how to do that in windows 7 or windows 8. 

This will allow you to run the program like it was in XP or Vista or 2000. 

 

Overall you need to to just make system restore and recovery discs or USBs.  That way no matter what happens you can always get your Windows 8 running.  And make a set for vista also.  I think I mentioned Clonezilla which will give you a system image, which is everything on your HDD's. 

 

Anything else you need help with please ask


CZARBOOM 
 
"Never Stop Asking Questions, Question Your Environment, Question Your Government, above all Question Yourself.  We all lose when you Stop asking Why?

#14 signofzeta

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 03:51 PM

I now know that I do have recovery partitions on my hard drive.  What I want to know is, is there a way to make a recovery disc or flash drive containing only the things necessary to recover a factory fresh WIndows 8 in case my hard drive dies in over 5 years?

 

Compatibility mode for vista, 7, and 8 is also a joke.  The program I wanted to run has a windows 95, 98, 2000 system requirement, and it checks for directshow.  I managed to get it to run some of the time on XP, but none of the time on Vista, 7, and 8.  Good thing that there was a patch that skips the directshow check out there, as I can run it on XP, vista, 7, and 8.  Now here lies another problem, and I do think it is the OS's fault, and not the computer hardware's fault.

 

I run the game in XP.  The game runs fine, nothing wrong.

 

I run the game in Vista, 7, and 8, and I have tested this on 4 computers.  All 4 have the same problems.  The game runs in such a way that it skips.  Imagine a movie, where you cut off certain parts, and you spliced the remaining parts of the movie together.  What you get is a movie that skips.  That is exactly what is happening to the game.  What I hope is that Windows 9, 10, 11. 12. whatever that comes after fixes this issue, or include an emulator for 95, 98, 2000, Me, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 9, whatever in their future operating systems.  The reason why people can't let go of older systems is because of these legacy programs.

 

The thing is that computer hardware doesn't last forever, meaning that you are guaranteed to not be able to play a 30 year old game on a modern day PC without some sort of emulator, or something about the OS that contains backwards compatibility that works.  It would be great if Microsoft made older OS's like windows 95, 98 etc. free in the future, but then again, they are M$, not MS.


Edited by signofzeta, 28 April 2014 - 04:14 PM.


#15 czarboom

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:09 AM

LOL all too true about M$

To answer your question:

 

What I want to know is, is there a way to make a recovery disc or flash drive containing only the things necessary to recover a factory fresh WIndows 8 in case my hard drive dies in over 5 years?

Yes there is.  Here is a link to microsofts how to.  Click here.

The info on your recovery drive is bear bones stuff.  Windows even will say that "backup will not auto save your files unless you tell it too"  That means all backup does in windows is get your system settings, network info, and current programs installed.  But no pics, music etc.  I learned that the hard way. 

That is where the confusion was on my end, you kept asking for just the factory info, and I kept replying with other ways to do it, thinking that you knew Windows backup was bear bones.  Sorry about that. 

I still perfer clonezilla.  Also if you can try to get AlienRespawn.  Its for alienware computers, but should work on any.  It does the same thing as the link above.  Give you a bear bones backup and recovery to USB or disk. 

 

The thing is that computer hardware doesn't last forever, meaning that you are guaranteed to not be able to play a 30 year old game on a modern day PC without some sort of emulator, or something about the OS that contains backwards compatibility that works.

Here is a how to for checking to see if your game will work with windows 8 at all. This article also includes steps and setting to check to see if it will still work.  Click here

 

I also was thinking you could download VMplayer.  Give it the memory it needs and load it as the OS needed for the game.  If its old and small enough it should run with no issues. 

 

anything els?


CZARBOOM 
 
"Never Stop Asking Questions, Question Your Environment, Question Your Government, above all Question Yourself.  We all lose when you Stop asking Why?




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