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New build won't start properly...


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#1 Xabier

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:09 AM

Well, I knew it would happen sooner or later.  This is the fourth build and up till now every one has started right off the bat.  Not so with this one.  Here is the layout:

 

MB - Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3

Processor - AMD FX8350 4GHZ 16MB 125W AM3+  8-core Black Edition

RAM - Patriot Viper Xtreme 2-4GB PC3-12800 1600 MHZ

SSD - Samsung SSD 840EVO

HD - WD10EZEX Blue 1TB

Video - GeForce GT520  1GB DDR3 Dual DVI

PS - Corsair TX750 Enthusiast Series

Case - ULTRA DEFENDER MIDTOWER GAMING CASE - WHITE

 

When I turned the system on for the first time the CPU fan started to turn and then stopped.  For a bit I thought it was just one of the circuits that control fan speeds holding it from running.  One of the cooling fans started and ran okay but that was about it.  Nothing showed up on the monitor.  Probably had it on for a minute or two and then shut it down.  After perhaps ten minutes I tried it again with similar results except that the CPU fan ran for a couple of seconds and then stopped.  At that point I shut it down immediately. During that time the processor got fairly warm.  I could hold my hand on the cooler, but not much more.

 

I can follow instructions and put these things together, but I'm not technically astute enought to know what to do when this happens.  Hope that's enough info.  If not, let me know.  And thanks in advance, I'll appreciate any help anyone can give.

 

Xabier



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#2 zingo156

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:01 PM

Discoinnect all non essential hardware, dvd drives, hard drives, wireless pci, pci-e cards etc. Remove all sticks of ram, try with just 1 stick in 1 slot. Move to the next if needed. If you still get nothing, remove all components and re-build on something non conductive, this is known as the bench test. Rebuild outside the case, only plug in components needed. Mainboard, cpu, cpu cooler, 1 stick of ram, video card (use onboard if you have it) and then the psu.

 

If you do not have a speaker plugged into the main board, plug one in and then see if there are any beep codes. Double check that you have the 24pin and 4/8 pin atx power connectors plugged in correctly. They are keyed but I have seen some 4/8 pin main board connectors plugged in incorrectly (takes quite a bit of force but can be done). If it is a modular psu, check the psu end as well.

 

A quick question: Did you put standouts in the case? Silly question I know but I have seen people forget to do this countless times and short out their boards.


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#3 Xabier

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:39 PM

Good afternoon Advisor!

 

Thanks so much for the reply.  Yes, I did put in the standoffs.  I also was quite careful in doing all the plugins, and I did put in the little speaker that plugs into the board. There was no sound out of it.

 

However, I will go through the routine you posted, inclusing rechecking the plugs, as it makes a lot of sense, and, I'm sure you have been down the road before.  Thanks again, and I'll report back.

 

Xabier

 

P.S.  Xabier is a admittedly a screen name I use a lot because it's rarely duplicated.  Only seen it once before.  Real name is Tom. 



#4 Xabier

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 01:26 PM

Advisor,

 

Disconnected every wire from the board with the exception of the power switch and the 8 & 24 pin power cords.  Tried with one strip of RAM and with no RAM.  In all instances the fan CPU fan starts and then within a second shuts down and the little speaker beeps rapidly.  Speaker didn't beep back on the original startups. 

 

Next step, per your instructions is the out of case test.  Big step, but if necessary I'll do it.  Are you thinking possible short in board???  Defective?

 

Tom



#5 Xabier

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 05:13 PM

Okay friends and neighbors.  Removed the MB from the case.  Laid it on a piece of foam rubber.  Connected the 8 and 24 pin cables... carefully.  Started the system by shorting the start pins with a screwdriver.  With no ram installed it would turn the fan at slow speed and then the fan would stop and a series of beeps.  Not just three or four beeps at a time but a continous series of them.

 

Then installed one strip of RAM in slot 1 and when it started, the CPU fan started at something like half speed for about two seconds and then kicked into what would appear to be full speed although it seems to me it should be running faster.  Anyway, it would run that way for perhaps fifteen seconds then the power would shut down on it but before it would spin all the way down it would go back to the higher speed and run another fifteen or twenty seconds and then shut down completely.  No beeps.

 

I tried putting in two RAM strips  in slots 1 & 3 and then it would just turn a few revolutions and shut back down.  Tried putting one strip in slot 4 and it would just barely start there also.  Then I moved the one strip back to slot 1 and it started and did the slow run and then up to speed.  After about ten seconds the power would stop again but then come back on before the fan could spin down.  Did that three cycles and then went dead.  No beeps.

 

Hopefully that will give enough information for someone to have an idea what is going on in this thing.  I work very hard to make these things look good, physically as well as electrically, and just hate it when I have to take one apart again.  But... that's life.  Thanks for any further words of wisdom.

 

Tom



#6 zingo156

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:31 AM

If you have more than 1 stick of ram, did you try each stick 1 at a time. If 1 stick is bad the other may work by itself, try each stick alone in each slot. I was not 100% certain what bios your mainboard uses but here is a list of common beep codes for a few types. In your manual it may tell you what type of bios (Award, AMI, Pheonix, etc...) If you can figure out what code the mainboard is sending out, it would help quite a bit.

 

It might be worth resetting the cmos while you have the board out, use the cmos jumper or unplug all power sources and then pop out the button battery on the board for a few seconds, then try again.

 

You might want to double check that you put the cpu in correctly or check for bent pins. Pull it out and put it back in.

 

When you get down to the main components and do not get beep codes, my first guess is generally mainboard. If you have a spare board with the same socket laying around, it would be worth trying the same cpu and ram in a different board. If in a known working board you still get no post, I would suspect cpu or psu.


Edited by zingo156, 21 April 2014 - 11:14 AM.

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#7 Xabier

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:32 AM

'Mornin' Zingo,

 

I just figured out how to read names on this board. :)

 

Anyway, I think I actually did try different strips in the process, but I'll go back and do it purposfully to be sure.  As for the codes, I'll try again to listen more closely just to be sure, but I don't think I ever got anything but a constant string of beeps, and then only when the memory was out completely.  When it was in, there were no beeps.

 

On the BIOS, the only thing I have found in the manual is a reference under BIOS that reads: "Use of licensed AMI EFI BIOS". 

 

As for resetting the BIOS by removing the battery, I laid in bed this morning and thought "darn, (or something similar) I didn't try removing the BIOS battery".  Just got down here to my den and wanted to reply to you first thing so haven't tried that yet, but will, and report back.

 

As I am with everything, I was quite careful in installing the CPU, but I'll double check it.  It can only go in one way, and it just dropped into the socket so I can't imagine a bent pin, but just to be safe I'll check it. 

 

As for having another board to try, no luck.  Don't have any spare boards around.

 

With my limited knowledge and the nature of the problem I was thinking MB failure also, so we're on the same wavelength there.  I'll report back soon.


Edited by Xabier, 21 April 2014 - 10:33 AM.


#8 zingo156

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:07 AM

here are the beep codes for your bios: (forgot to post the link last time) 

 

AMI BIOS beep codes

Below are the AMI BIOS Beep codes that can occur. However, because of the wide variety of different computer manufacturers with this BIOS, the beep codes may vary.

Beep Code Descriptions

1 short DRAM refresh failure

2 short Parity circuit failure

3 short Base 64K RAM failure 4

short System timer failure

5 short Process failure

6 short Keyboard controller Gate A20 error

7 short Virtual mode exception error

8 short Display memory Read/Write test failure

9 short ROM BIOS checksum failure

10 short CMOS shutdown Read/Write error

11 short Cache Memory error

1 long, 3 short Conventional/Extended memory failure

1 long, 8 short Display/Retrace test failed

 

 

More codes can be found here for different types of bios: http://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm


Edited by zingo156, 21 April 2014 - 11:08 AM.

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#9 Xabier

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:19 PM

Okay Zingo,

 

Now I'm getting really confused.  Why can't things be simple for me?  I have a history of having problems that no one else has heard of.  :)   Thanks for posting the code list.

 

Before doing anything else I pulled the battery for about three minutes and then replaced it.  

 

Again without any memory installed it (the CPU fan) will start and then stop and there is a steady string of beeps. 

 

With stick one in slot one, it will start and stop several times before stopping completely.  No beeps.  Same with all other slots.  

 

With stick two in the number one slot, it will start, then stop completely and give one long and two short beeps.  I did it several times and I'm sure it was just one long and two short beeps.  I see that is not on the list you posted.  It does the same in all the other slots.  Do I have a bad ram strip, and if it is, then why does the system not run normally with the other strip?  Both bad, actually?  BTW, these are 4GB strips.  Even if they are bad, will that keep the system from running?

 

CPU is all OK.  No bent pins and fully seated.

 

At this point I'm not sure what to ask to be replaced.  I'll await your further diagnosis and go with that.  Can you advise me on rather to call Tiger Direct or the board manufacturer?  I also want you to know that I sincerely appreciate all your help.    



#10 zingo156

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:40 PM

Here is an updated list with more codes: http://www.bioscentral.com/beepcodes/amibeep.htm

 

It appears that 1 long followed by 2 shorts is a failure in video system:

 

1 long, 2 short Failure in video system An error was encountered in the video BIOS ROM, or a horizontal retrace failure has been encountered

 

It also seems you may have a problem with one stick of ram (no beeps with it plugged in) though it could be a fluke.

 

Try these things below with the stick that gives beep codes installed:

 

 

Try a different video card or onboard if you have it. Try moving the video card to a different pci-e slot.

 

Where is the monitor plugged in (onboard if you have it or the gt520)? Does that gt520 require a power connection from the psu or does it get power from the mainboard. I am not familiar with this particular error so when they say video bios rom, I can not say what is causing the error.

 

You could contact either, I have a feeling you would get better answers from the manufacturer of the board. Especially knowing the beep codes.


Edited by zingo156, 21 April 2014 - 12:42 PM.

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#11 Xabier

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:53 PM

Alright Mr. Zingo,

 

This one is on me.  After I took the board out of the case I never put the video card back in.  It does not have an onboard video.  I just now plugged it in and hooked it up to the monitor.  With the number 2 memory strip plugged into any slot the fan starts slowly and in about one or two seconds it shifts into high and keep running. 

 

In addition, the splash screen comes up followed by a message to go into the BIOS Setup.  I plugged in a keyboard and hit the enter key and the first setup screen came up.  I was then able, using the keys, to navigate around that screen.  I'm very sorry about that, but I didn't think it would have to have the video card installed to at least run.  That's what I get for thinking.

 

Then I plugged in the other, number 1, memory strip and it's back to start and stop of the CPU fan and no video.  Looks to me like we have a bad memory strip, at the very least. 

 

I'm going to put it all back in the case now and then see what it does.  At least now I have a baseline to work from.

 

More thanks, and sorry for the screw up.  I'll report back again after the case test, either way. 



#12 zingo156

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:07 PM

No worries, glad to hear you have a succesful post and video output. I would suspect that 1 stick is bad if it causes the computer to fail to post or have video, if it causes failure in any of the slots I will nearly guarantee that stick is bad, though in rare cases I have seen cpu's cause this problem if the ram controller (built into most modern cpu's) has a problem.

 

I always perform a memtest86 on any new rig. I generally do this with 1 stick in each slot to also test the slots. I recommend running 12 hours or 24 hours to rule out errors, most errors should be caught in 3 passes which with 8gb of ram will probably take 3-4 hours. Sometimes ram will allow a pc to post fine, but cause BSOD in windows. If the ram passes memtest86 with no errors, you should have a stable system.

 

Memtest86 here: Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable Binary (.zip) download and burn to a disc, then boot to the disc.


Edited by zingo156, 21 April 2014 - 02:10 PM.

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#13 Xabier

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:16 PM

Hi again Zingo,

 

Got it back in the case and it works just as it did on the mat.  This has been somewhat a comedy, if you can call it that, of errors, on my part due to my ignorance of just how these things work under conditions where they don't take off right out of the chute.  Thanks to you this has been a very good learning experience.

 

I realize now that in the beginning the bad RAM strip was preventing it from running.  Then someone told me to take the video card out and I did, but I thought since they told me that, that it would run without it so I never put it back in until you told me to do that earlier today.  Then things started to fall into place.

 

Now, I'm wondering if I should request that they replace both strips or just the bad one.  

 

Again, I can't thank you enough for your help.  You were not only good technical help but at least I didn't feel like I was thrashing around in the dark.  I'll report back when it's all running with Windows, for the sake both you and the other readers.  



#14 zingo156

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:23 PM

I believe they will RMA both sticks together if they came in a kit, in otherwords, you will likely need to send both sticks back. 


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#15 Xabier

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 09:24 PM

Thought it was fixed... but it wasn't!

 

Whole new phase of the old problem as discussed above.  Thought I had everything under control as the machine ran quite nicely, thank you, on just one 4Gig strip of RAM.  Got an RMA on the other strip and today the new one came.  Inserted it in the machine and, lo and behold, it wouldn't post. 

 

It will post up with either strip of RAM installed, but when both are installed it starts and runs, but won't post.  They are in the proper places, either 1 & 3 or 2 & 4, but won't won't post.  Can take either of them out and it runs fine, just not with both installed.  Seems like it runs on one leg, just not on two legs.  :)   

 

Any ideas?

 

Tom






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