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Has anyone fooled with antenna positioning?


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14 replies to this topic

#1 OldPhil

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:05 AM

I just got a Netgear R7000, it is a step up from Linksys 160nv2.  I spent an hour setting up all the stuff and getting all the goodies from Netgear which is extensive.  One of the reasons I swapped was the buffering while watching movies and intermittent stuttering music.  Any way when all was done I only saw a slight improvement, hmm near $200.00 and a hour or so did not sit well.  I thought about it for awhile then remembered my days with radios talking all over the world and the difference antennas made.  I started re-orientating the three antennas this morning so far so good no shudder or choppy music, will not know for sure until the evening traffic picks up.

 

Phil


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#2 Greg62702

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:55 PM

Antennas are not your problem, it is your distance, what kind of building you are in, when using the wireless connection, and noise table (other Access Points in your area, and radio freq's on the same bandwidth that you are using).  Suggest to download inSSIDer from http://www.inssider.com (still owned by metageek.net, just split off).  As for the antennas on the router, they need to be straight up, not at odd angles.



#3 OldPhil

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:23 PM

I am talking about what we used to call co phasing, using two antennas to extend the signal pattern.  I single pole antenna has a 360 degree pattern.  Having two phased you take the 360 pattern squeeze in effect to turn it into an elongated 8 shaped pattern extending its range range in two directions front to back near double.   


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#4 Greg62702

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:27 PM

I know what you are talking about.  Again, you need to go back and read what I posted, because that is your issue, not some funky setup.



#5 OldPhil

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:41 PM

Aiming antennas is not being funky is more than well proven, I have done quite a bit of fooling with aiming antennas, including a few balun setups when I was into radio years back.


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#6 PanickyD

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:52 PM

We have to take laptops out to cars in the parking lot on occasion at my work. The wireless signal was too weak for a stable connection. I bought an amplified antenna that screwed onto our WRT54G in place of one of the stock antennas and that did the trick. Probably would have been better had I bought two, but just the one got the job done.

 

Just a suggestion


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#7 Greg62702

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 12:18 AM

Aiming antennas is not being funky is more than well proven, I have done quite a bit of fooling with aiming antennas, including a few balun setups when I was into radio years back.

Only with the older Wifi equipment.  With the newer wifi equipment, you do not need fancy antennas, to get a proper signal.  You actually degrade the signal, when you start messing around with what the manufacturer set the unit up, by using different antennas, then what the antennas that came with the device.  Only if you are going to use the device outdoors, then you would need to use the proper antennas for 2.4ghz/5ghz Wireless-ac.

 

Again, re-read what I posted.  Download the software I told you to use.  Then you will see why you have an issue.  A bunch of fancy antennas and some lazy figure 8 out of some Internet site, is not going to improve your signal.

 

Inside structures, and inside densely populated areas, you will have a lot of noise threshold, that will cause interference with your Wifi.  If you were to place the router up on top of a structure, with a clear line of sight, you will get max performance.  Inside a building, you are only guaranteed so much -db of signal, when using it.

 

Also the network card, and the antenna for that network card also come into play, which will either make or break how well of a connection you get, when connecting to the A/P, inside the structure.


Edited by Greg62702, 01 February 2014 - 12:21 AM.


#8 Greg62702

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 12:23 AM

Also, Co-phasing does not work as you think with wifi.  It was meant for 2m Ham radio & Cb rig setups, not for Wifi.


Edited by Greg62702, 01 February 2014 - 12:23 AM.


#9 OldPhil

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:20 AM

In my case distance is not the issue, I have a cape my main system is on the upper floor my lap tops are + or - 15 feet below.  I was annoyed with buffering and choppy music, which had little improvement going from 160n Linksys to the R7000.  With both If was on the upper floor with my LT's I did not have the problem though I had three walls between me and my router.  That is what got me thinking about fooling around with the new ones antennas positions.  I have one vertical, one at 45 and one flat, this positioning is also described in this link: http://techchannel.radioshack.com/position-wifi-antenna-2800.html which I dug up this AM. It works for me and apparently for others.  Another case in point my son in laws has a long ranch house, his 54g was at one end he had little to no signal at the other end.  We poked around and and found info on Tomato, first to admit I bricked his router.  I found another used 54g second attempt with Tomato went fine and did improve things but still just Ok, we made one very simple change that did make a difference.  We turned the router from facing the back of the house to facing the far end of the house.  Maybe we were lucky but in both cases we bettered the reception.  I have not had one hiccup watching streaming nor has the half had to complain about her country music since the change.


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#10 Greg62702

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 02:49 PM

Your Son needs more Access Points to cover his home, not better antennas.  Same in your case.  You both are throwing money out the window, changing antennas, when that money can be used for better coverage with a couple of access points, placed at strategic locations in the homes.


Edited by Greg62702, 01 February 2014 - 02:51 PM.


#11 OldPhil

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 03:00 PM

No one needed a change of antennas everything is working fine only a re- orientation of the sticks was needed, my kids old 54g reaches his bedroom no problem.  Why is it you keep bringing this up we have gotten the desired results there is NO issues!


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#12 mjd420nova

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 11:50 PM

There is a lot of adjustment available on the newer routers antennas.  Repositioning can do both, help and hinder the reception in any area of the home or building.  What may have helped the unit in question, it may have affected a different one.  I work with screens as directors and grounded foils as reflectors.  This can concentrate signals in a desired direction and even block signals from some areas.  Placing units in a corner and using foil can be effective in blocking signals from leaving the premises.



#13 OldPhil

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:45 AM

The reason for  the post was due to the success I had, I did not expect a debate.  Even the 54g my kids house did better with a little fiddling.  I was a CB nut back in the 60's an 70's, I went the gambit of beams, co/triple phase even a 50 foot balun strung from my tower to a tree out back.  I had QSL cards from many places around the world when skip was running hot.  Playing with positioning and reflectors is nothing new and like you said can help or hinder.  I was accused of using a kicker due to some of my experimenting, I had a 66 Chevy with a 102' whip centered on the roof that I would park in front of a chain link baseball back stop at my  local school.  I could talk to buddies way north up in Mass from eastern Long Island, I had a 60 foot tower with a 5 element beam which had two rotors I could go anywhere from vertical to flat and 360 degrees around.  Flat side was better for long distance quieter chatting, on a good night I could catch Tim a guy in Nova Scotia.  I say if you have external antennas play around see if you benefit!  Since this discussion I moved the router again no real gain but a clearer shot at the downstairs.

 

Phil


Edited by OldPhil, 03 February 2014 - 05:21 AM.

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#14 Chris Cosgrove

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:55 PM

One of the basic questions in engineering is 'Does it work ?'.  And if it works for you, then your problem is solved - at least until the next time !

 

I know very little about the theory of radio / wireless but I have used it a bit over the years, military, CB and now wi-fi. but, I use a USB dongle on my desktop and I know that it's position on the computer is critical. Quite simply, it is mounted on the forward top corner of the right hand side in a magnetic clamp, and if it slips down by as little as 1/2 inch, I lose 25% of my signal. So there is at least some evidence that aerial positioning is not unimportant !

 

Chris Cosgrove



#15 mjd420nova

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:00 PM

Phil:  Yes, it itsn't so much about the antenna itself but the surrounding environment and the most important of all, grounding.  In the nomenclature, the counterpoise.  It can be tuned as well, and even used to "fool" an antenna array.  I have used chains hanging in the water(ocean) and strung miles of wire in the wilderness with a bow and arrow for QRP contests.  The CB has some surprising atmospheric affects induced on it by the sunrise/sunset cycle and the sunspot cycle.  We're talking about frequencies below 40 MCS (MHZ) that are subject "skip", or bouncing from earth to sky and back to earth again.  The effects in higher bands, usually called  "ducting".  But is not even thinkable at the extreme microwave frequencies.


Edited by mjd420nova, 02 February 2014 - 10:01 PM.





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