Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Video Card indicates 250 Watt min. requirement. I've got 220 Watts. Enough?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 peterk312

peterk312

  • Members
  • 95 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:28 AM

Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:32 PM

Yes, I do know what the word "minimum" means...

 

However, from what I gather the minimum requirements for watts are not all that matters. Plus, the difference here is real close, so I'm wondering if someone who knows about this stuff can advise. I see power supply units can be bought for not so much $, but if I might not need it I'd rather be spared the hassle of swapping out my original psu (Compaq model DPS-250RB A, 100-127V ~ /8A, 200-240V ~ /4A, sticker on unit says "total power output" is 220W).

 

Video card is a JATON 3DForce6200Twin GeForce 6200 256MB 64-bit DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139028R

 

Manufacturer's web page:

 

http://www.jaton.com/VGA/graphics_card_detail.php?pid=30


Edited by peterk312, 12 January 2014 - 06:15 PM.


BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 dc3

dc3

    Bleeping Treehugger


  • Members
  • 30,475 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sierra Foothills of Northern Ca.
  • Local time:08:28 AM

Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:53 PM

The system requirements for this card state a minimum of 250W, yours is 220W and only has 5amps on the 12V rail.  Personally, I wouldn't do it.

 

You should take into consideration the fact that by current standards this is a very old computer which could develop critical failures at any time.  I would suggest investing your money in a new or newer computer.


Family and loved ones will always be a priority in my daily life.  You never know when one will leave you.

 

 

 

 


#3 peterk312

peterk312
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 95 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:28 AM

Posted 12 January 2014 - 05:05 PM

A new computer is out. I'm only looking to upgrade the video playing performance. I can afford a $40 video card and maybe $20 for a 450 watt psu (such as this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817170018 ) but a new system? I don't have hundreds to spend!

 

Again, given the watts are very close, can I get away with installing an AGP video card that says it needs to be on a 250 watt power supply unit but my existing unit says total power is 220 watts? If I try it, what do I risk? Overloading the power supply unit?

 

After a little searching, I found there's someone who has a 250 watt power supply and he successfully runs a SAPPHIRE 100252HDMI Radeon HD 4550 512MB 64-bit PCIe video card that has a recommended power supply of 300 watts. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1248244/want-to-add-hdmi-card-to-computer-but-power-supply-is-only-250-watts

That's a difference of 50 watts. I'm only looking at a difference of 30 watts.

Doesn't it actually go down to how many watts the video card itself is going to draw from the power supply (in addition to the CPU, 2 HD drives, and one DVD Rom drive), which is nowhere near 250 watts? -Unless maybe you were running all the devices together at the same time.


Edited by peterk312, 12 January 2014 - 05:55 PM.


#4 lti

lti

  • Members
  • 582 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:09:28 AM

Posted 12 January 2014 - 06:29 PM

From what I've seen, you won't be able to upgrade the PSU. It is not a standard ATX PSU, so you'll need at least some kind of mounting plate to convert the case opening to a more common small PSU form factor. You might even need an adapter to convert a standard 20-pin or 24-pin motherboard power connector to the weird power connector Compaq chose to use.

 

What video card or onboard video does this computer currently have? It might not be worth spending that much on a new video card. AGP video cards are ridiculously overpriced.

 

There wouldn't be an AGP slot if the original PSU couldn't handle a low-power video card like that GeForce 6200. It should be able to handle any card that gets power through the AGP slot instead of a separate power connector.



#5 peterk312

peterk312
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 95 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:28 AM

Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:49 PM

What video card or onboard video does this computer currently have? It might not be worth spending that much on a new video card. AGP video cards are ridiculously overpriced.

 

There wouldn't be an AGP slot if the original PSU couldn't handle a low-power video card like that GeForce 6200. It should be able to handle any card that gets power through the AGP slot instead of a separate power connector.

 

 

The computer came with an Intel 82845G Integrated Graphics Controller, which is very outdated. Hence my desire to replace with a video card like the one in the link above.

 

 

--lTi, you say "There wouldn't be an AGP slot if the original PSU couldn't handle a low-power video card like that GeForce 6200. It should be able to handle any card that gets power through the AGP slot instead of a separate power connector."

 

Okay. That's encouraging. There IS definately an AGP slot on my motherboard (I have seen it). This computer is AGP 4X (1.5v) compatible. The detailed specs of the EVO D310 are here: http://h18002.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/productbulletin.html#spectype=worldwide&type=html&docid=11348

 

The following after-market cards were being offered to run on this at one time: NVIDIA GeForce2 MX400 32-MB DDRAM AGP, NVIDIA GeForce2 MX200 64-MB with DVI-I, and NVIDIA GeForce2 MX420 64-MB DDRAM with VGA and Svideo. I don't know if the JATON 3DForce6200Twin GeForce 6200 video card I'm interested in above requires more power than these.

 

I know this can be done for much less money than a whole new system would cost. I'm just trying to make sure that if the video card says something like it should be run on a power supply of at least 250 watts and I've got a power supply unit that's rated at 220 watts I'm not going to try to pull too much current and fry the power supply. I do understand that the 6200 video card would be powered at the motherboard slot (1.5 V) and doesn't have another power connection. It kind of makes sense that if the AGP slot is there the manufacturer wouldn't put in a power supply unit that wouldn't allow you to use the slot, but I'm concerned that the motherboard is 10 years old, and the AGP cards I'm looking at that are still being sold are not that old.


Edited by peterk312, 12 January 2014 - 08:04 PM.


#6 dc3

dc3

    Bleeping Treehugger


  • Members
  • 30,475 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sierra Foothills of Northern Ca.
  • Local time:08:28 AM

Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:13 AM

From what I've seen, you won't be able to upgrade the PSU. It is not a standard ATX PSU, so you'll need at least some kind of mounting plate to convert the case opening to a more common small PSU form factor. You might even need an adapter to convert a standard 20-pin or 24-pin motherboard power connector to the weird power connector Compaq chose to use.

 

 

 

Compaq Desktop ATX Power Supply DPS-250RB A - 220W - Used [DPS-250RB A] - $23.00 : AtlantisGadgets, Discount Electronics & Hard to Find Gadgets


Family and loved ones will always be a priority in my daily life.  You never know when one will leave you.

 

 

 

 


#7 synergy513

synergy513

  • BC Advisor
  • 1,058 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Local time:10:28 AM

Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:32 PM

i think i remember the sapphire 6670 is sff compatible. it is pcie though, are there adapters for agp to pcie?


Edited by synergy513, 13 January 2014 - 05:34 PM.

Moore's Law : 4d Graph in Progress


#8 peterk312

peterk312
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 95 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:28 AM

Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:49 PM

 

From what I've seen, you won't be able to upgrade the PSU. It is not a standard ATX PSU, so you'll need at least some kind of mounting plate to convert the case opening to a more common small PSU form factor. You might even need an adapter to convert a standard 20-pin or 24-pin motherboard power connector to the weird power connector Compaq chose to use.

 

 

 

Compaq Desktop ATX Power Supply DPS-250RB A - 220W - Used [DPS-250RB A] - $23.00 : AtlantisGadgets, Discount Electronics & Hard to Find Gadgets

 

 

Yes. That's the 220 watt power supply unit in my Compaq EVO D310. I don't need to buy one. Mine is working fine.

 

I should mention too that at the HP forum I've got somebody telling me I should be fine running a low wattage (the recommeded 250 watts) AGP video card on my system with the 220 watt original power supply unit: http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop-Hardware/Upgrading-old-82845G-Graphics-Controller-with-compatible/td-p/3351313


Edited by peterk312, 13 January 2014 - 10:55 PM.


#9 dc3

dc3

    Bleeping Treehugger


  • Members
  • 30,475 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sierra Foothills of Northern Ca.
  • Local time:08:28 AM

Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:57 AM

The person who stated that it should work fine was using a 245W PSU, that's only 5W less than the suggested minimum 250W.

 

You could give it a try, but if it doesn't work you will either need to purchase another PSU or be stuck with a graphics card you can't use.


Family and loved ones will always be a priority in my daily life.  You never know when one will leave you.

 

 

 

 


#10 lti

lti

  • Members
  • 582 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:09:28 AM

Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:44 AM

This is the cheapest AGP video card on Newegg with HDMI output:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161318

 

You can find similar used cards for a lot less money. These modern cards don't use very much power. According to AMD, that card only uses 25W:

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-4000/hd-4350/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-4300-overview.aspx

The GeForce 4 MX420 also "requires" a 250W power supply, just like the GeForce 6200.



#11 peterk312

peterk312
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 95 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:28 AM

Posted 14 January 2014 - 12:28 PM

I don't NEED a video card with HDMI. It has to have either HDMI or DVI for getting VIDEO out from the PC to the LCD TV. The system has an upgraded PCI soundcard that can't do digital sound but that's okay with me. The audio quality is still fine. I don't use the speakers for my LCD TV. The sound out of both my blu ray player, the TV, and the PC connect to a Denon stereo receiver (which also can't do digital audio). I know it sounds like I'm living in the dark ages when it comes to technology! Just trying to improve one thing here: streaming video content from the internet and from files on my PC.

 

I just want to summarize a few things:

 

I had a question about power consumption for video cards. My motherboard has an AGP 4x slot. From another post, I found out as long as my system is using AGP 2.0, I can use an 8X card and still get the 1.5V required for the video card. However, the performance of the card will still be 4x (and from my system specs I can verify I've got an AGP 4X slot), but the power supply should be correct. Only the oldest systems have AGP 1, which uses 3.3V. See here:  http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/AGP-Bus-Tutorial/155

 

Regarding power consumption, despite manufacturer recommended minimum power consumption requirements, there's an article that states a Radeon HD 4350 video card (recommended to be run in a system with a minimum of 300 watt power supply) actually draws no more than 20 watts. See here: http://www.easyecoblog.com/479/low-power-consumption-computer-video-card-ati-radeon-hd-4350/ I suspect this is the case with most video cards (except the most expensive ones), so it's very unclear to me why the recommended minimum watts for the power supply unit is so much higher than what the card actually needs. Similarly, if you go to this website to estimate recommended power supply  http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp it only adds 20 watts for a card like the NVIDIA GEforce FX 5500.

 

So, unless I still am missing more important info (while aware that dc3 is still insisting my power supply unit is not enough watts), I'm at the point where I'm trying to investigate several cards that have these specs:

 

1. For my system (AGP 4X compatible) must be an AGP 4x or 8x card (given 8x is backwards compatible and will still work but only at 4x)

 

2. At least 1 DVI port to send VIDEO (not audio) out to an LCD TV

 

3. At least one other port for a computer mointor (can be VGA, HDMI, or DVI. I have read that graphics actually still work best with a VGA connector for a computer monitor rather than HDMI).

 

4. Needs to be capable of "dual" monitor connection, not just having choice of connectors. There seems to be some disagreement whether all video cards that have several different connectors available (VGA, HDMI and DVI) can be connected to two monitors at the same time.

 

5. onboard RAM of at least 256 MB

 

6. the card should have specs indicating no more than a recommended power supply unit of about 300 watts (and this one I am still very unclear about, especially given a) the AGP slot is pulling power from the motherboard, and b.) the full power of the video card is not likely to be as high as 250 - 300 watts so  it's unclear how they are estimating this "minimum" power supply.

 

Here's a couple that I think may fit the above needs:

 

nVIDIA GeForce FX 5500 256 MB 256MB AGP 4X 8X Video Card
http://www.amazon.com/nVIDIA-GeForce-256MB-Video-Adapter/dp/B003S766DW

EVGA GeForce 6200 LE 512 MB DDR2 AGP 8X VGA/DVI-I/S-Video Graphics Card, 512-A8-N403-LR (I believe this one is 4x and 8x compatible)
http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-S-Video-Graphics-512-A8-N403-LR/dp/B001QMM6NU
 

(This one recommended by Itc above):

HIS H435F512HA Radeon HD 4350 512MB 64-bit DDR3 AGP 4X/8X HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161318


SPARKLE 700018 GeForce FX 5200 256MB 128-bit DDR AGP 8X Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187181

I don't know if one of these has any advantage over the other, but the Radeon is the most expensive ($60).

 


Edited by peterk312, 14 January 2014 - 06:44 PM.


#12 peterk312

peterk312
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 95 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:28 AM

Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:47 PM

Here's a website http://forums.atomicmpc.com.au/index.php?showtopic=264 where someone compiled the actual watts required for many different video cards instead of the more often quoted recommended minimum power supply unit for a particular video card. He also provides an interesting explanation why some video cards require much more power than others (which includes what you use it for, e.g., 3D graphics and gaming tasks will need more power).

His graph includes the Nvidia GeForce FX 5700 (likely to have similar power consumption as the FX 5500 which I want to install) running at PEAK to be 25 watts. The number is not continual power consumption, which means it won't need to run this high unless you are trying to do certain tasks. I think this number is more meaningful when it comes to what kind of power your system actually needs if you're adding a video card.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users