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Processor Upgrade Gone Bad


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#1 DDave64

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 08:36 PM

Well I "upgraded" the CPU in my son's computer today or attempted to anyway.

 

He has a Dell Optiplex 755 Desktop.  Before starting I upgraded the BIOS.  That went fine.  PC rebooted normally and all seemed well.  Took out the old CPU (Intel Core2 Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz 1333) and replaced it with a Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 Processor 3.0 GHz 12 MB Cache Socket LGA775 which was supposed to work based on the research I did on the Internet.  Hooked everything back up and no boot.  No lights, no BIOS beep, no nothing.  The fans start up for a few seconds then it shuts off.;  A few seconds later it does the same thing and keeps doing it until the power cord is disconnected.

 

So I put the old CPU back in and it does the same thing.

 

Can't remember the part number of the motherboard but I don't really know what to try next?  I made sure all of the cards, RAM etc were seated and all.

 

Only thing I can imagine is that the new CPU was NOT compatible and somehow damaged the motherboard which is why the old CPU won't work either.  Tried reinstalling both very carefully a couple of times with the same results.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

Thanks.

 

Dave



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#2 mjd420nova

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:03 PM

It's more likely that the power supply is the fault.  Leave the CPU out of the socket to see if the PS will start normally.  It is possible that the new CPU was too much drain for the MOBO and a trace has burned



#3 Platypus

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:08 PM

My first suggestion would be to clear the CMOS memory in case the stored BIOS parameters have been corrupted and are setting an impossible boot state.

 

If this makes no difference, remove and disconnect everything except the CPU/fan and the necessary power and start/speaker connectors. If this combination can operate at all, you should get an insistent beep code complaining about the absence of memory. If so, progressively refit from RAM onward until one item stops the system from starting.

 

If the same fault symptom occurs with CPU only, then you're looking at PSU (as already suggested), something shorted in the CPU fan/wiring, mainboard damage/fault or both CPUs gone (unlikely). Examine the CPU "socket" carefully for damaged or misaligned pins.


Edited by Platypus, 27 December 2013 - 09:48 PM.
Thought about CPU fan short

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#4 dpunisher

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:10 PM

How many pins did you bend in the CPU socket?  Heatsink mounted securely with new thermal compound?  CMOS reset?

 

EDIT:  Great minds think alike.


Edited by dpunisher, 27 December 2013 - 09:12 PM.

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#5 DDave64

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:44 PM

How many pins did you bend in the CPU socket?  Heatsink mounted securely with new thermal compound?  CMOS reset?

 

EDIT:  Great minds think alike.

 

No pins bent that I'm aware of.  Yes, heatsink mounted with new thermal compound.

 

Will try CMOS reset and powering on with only CPU connected.

 

Thanks.

 

Dave



#6 slgrieb

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:57 PM

My first suggestion would be to clear the CMOS memory in case the stored BIOS parameters have been corrupted and are setting an impossible boot state.

 

If this makes no difference, remove and disconnect everything except the CPU/fan and the necessary power and start/speaker connectors. If this combination can operate at all, you should get an insistent beep code complaining about the absence of memory. If so, progressively refit from RAM onward until one item stops the system from starting.

 

If the same fault symptom occurs with CPU only, then you're looking at PSU (as already suggested), mainboard damage/fault or both CPUs gone (unlikely). Examine the CPU "socket" carefully for damaged or misaligned pins.

Merry late Xmas Platypus! and Happy New Year! It's hard to argue with good basic troubleshooting advice, But there are always folks that will try to over complicate things. And its's hard to find anyone who will follow basic troubleshooting info: it's all so tedious and linear. But, I'll go with the defective PSU.

 

It's more likely that the power supply is the fault.  Leave the CPU out of the socket to see if the PS will start normally.  It is possible that the new CPU was too much drain for the MOBO and a trace has burned

 

Most likely the PSU is bad, but what's up with "Leave the CPU out of the socket and see if the PS will start normally."? Actually, that would never happen. No modern PSU would ever "start normally" without a processor in place, and your idea that somehow this upgrade has caused some "circuit trace" to "burn" is BS.

How many pins did you bend in the CPU socket?  Heatsink mounted securely with new thermal compound?  CMOS reset?

 

EDIT:  Great minds think alike.

With current ZIF sockets, it's pretty unlikely even a ham-handed klutz could bend CPU pins.

 

Here's my take. It isn't unusual to have a PSU fail during a hardware upgrade. Sometimes they aren't up to supporting the new hardware; sometimes they just fail. 


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#7 DDave64

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 10:55 PM

Well I cleared the CMOS settings -- no change.

 

Removed video card, RAM, unplugged hard drive and DVD drive power -- only devices plugged in were the CPU and fan -- no change.

 

CPU fan starts for a few seconds but there are no beeps, no diagnostic LEDs, nothing.  Power button stays amber which, if I recall correctly, is a symptom of a bad PSU in a Dell?

 

Thanks.

 

Dave



#8 Platypus

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:51 AM

PSU looks likely, was probably just on the edge with the less hungry CPU.

 

@slgrieb: Thanks & all the best to you.


Edited by Platypus, 28 December 2013 - 04:53 AM.

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#9 rotor123

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 08:45 AM

With current ZIF sockets, it's pretty unlikely even a ham-handed klutz could bend CPU pins.

 

Here's my take. It isn't unusual to have a PSU fail during a hardware upgrade. Sometimes they aren't up to supporting the new hardware; sometimes they just fail. 

 

I've seen people bend the pins when the Pins are on the CPU and I've seen the Pins in the CPU socket of the newer Intel CPUs get bent.

 

I've never managed to do that myself however I have seen people that are assembling their own computer do it. My theory with the newer Intel design where the Pins are in the socket is that either they dropped the CPU into the socket when they were placing it or it wasn't seated properly before they latched it in place.

 

I suspect that Intel saved themselves a fair amount by moving the easily damaged pins from the CPU they make to the the Socket with pins that the Motherboard makers have to cover.

 

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#10 DDave64

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:22 PM

PSU looks likely, was probably just on the edge with the less hungry CPU.

 

"On the edge" as in getting old and likely to fail or "on the edge" as in didn't have enough power to run everything in the first place?

 

If I replace the PSU and it boots with the old CPU should I try and install the new one?  The power requirements of this PC seem pretty minimal -- only one HD, a DVD drive and an EVGA GeForce 8400 GS 1 GB DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 graphics card.

 

The replacement PSU is 280 W. 

http://www.discountelectronics.com/product?gclid=CIPuu72D0rsCFQh1QgodQ3oAAQ&product_id=16990&product_model=18

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Dave



#11 mjd420nova

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:16 PM

Dave:  Here's what appears to be the sequence.  A older (4 to 5 years) desktop, sold with an imported power supply, rated at  say 300 watts but more realistically runs about 235 watts.  As things age, all components age, they become less efficient and draw more current to do the same job.  Near the end of a power supplies life, the rectifiers can't create enough and the regulators have to work harder making capacitors run warmer too.  Alittle extra heat and the fan begins to run hot too and draws more current.  A downhill trend.  Now toos out the CPU, put in another that draws just 25% more current and you just exceeded the power supplies current abilities.  The PS also has a protection circuit that will sense any abnormal condition and shut down before "serious" damage can occur.



#12 Platypus

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 02:14 AM

 

PSU looks likely, was probably just on the edge with the less hungry CPU.

 

"On the edge" as in getting old and likely to fail or "on the edge" as in didn't have enough power to run everything in the first place?

 

If I replace the PSU and it boots with the old CPU should I try and install the new one?  The power requirements of this PC seem pretty minimal -- only one HD, a DVD drive and an EVGA GeForce 8400 GS 1 GB DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 graphics card.

 

The replacement PSU is 280 W. 

http://www.discountelectronics.com/product?gclid=CIPuu72D0rsCFQh1QgodQ3oAAQ&product_id=16990&product_model=18

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Dave

 

Hard to say which, after the event. If the exisitng PSU is also a 280W unit, then probably both.

 

If you're contemplating replacing it with an identical used part, remember you won't know if the replacement has suffered similar component ageing. In that situation, if it came good and ran happily with the replacement PSU and the original CPU, I wouldn't push it and try the more demanding CPU. Its specs indicate up to 30W possible extra power consumption - the minimum recommended system PSU for your video card is 350W, so you were probably just getting away with it if you've always had the 280W rated PSU.

 

http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=01g-p3-1302-lr

 

Dell is reputed to under-rate their PSUs (continuous duty rating), so their 280W might have a capacity that would be claimed as say 350W by a generic PSU manufacturer.

 

What form factor is your system? The Mini-Tower I believe has a 305W PSU rating, which is probably the minimum spec I'd be thinking about trying the Q9650 with.


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#13 DDave64

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:48 PM

What form factor is your system? The Mini-Tower I believe has a 305W PSU rating, which is probably the minimum spec I'd be thinking about trying the Q9650 with.

 

 

It's a desktop which severely limits the choice of PSUs.

 

So it sounds like he will have to choose between the faster video card or the faster processor because the PSU probably can't support both?



#14 Platypus

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 06:08 PM

That's the way I'm thinking. Is there a +12V current rating on the PSU label? I haven't found a spec online, seems the 305W supply's rating is 22A, so the 280W unit would be less.


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#15 DDave64

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:44 PM



That's the way I'm thinking. Is there a +12V current rating on the PSU label? I haven't found a spec online, seems the 305W supply's rating is 22A, so the 280W unit would be less.

 

Yes, there is.  Here's a pic of the PSU label.

 

PowerSupply.jpg

 

Looks like it's 16A.

 

When we bought this PC for my son, I had no idea he wanted to get into gaming at the time and would want to upgrade video cards, CPUs etc.  It being a desktop has presented quite a few obstacles in that regard.

 

Do the Dell tower cases support other (ATX 12?) power supplies?  I'm pretty new to the arena of custom builds so I'm not familiar with all the lingo.


Edited by DDave64, 29 December 2013 - 09:56 PM.





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