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Defrag, Hybrid HD, Virtual PC (XP Mode)


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#1 jonas914

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:50 AM

So, I've got a new Dell M4800 laptop with the 500GB "Hybrid" drive w7/64.  I don't know if it has ANYTHING to do with anything, but...

The other day I walked away from it for about an hour and came back and it was frozen.  I still had mouse control.  Couldn't open any new programs or close anything, no task manager.

Tried for about 10 minutes to get it to do something useful, but it was just stuck.  Ended up having to hard reset it.

 

After rebooting, I checked the Event Viewer and saw the last thing running was Disk Defrag.

 

Now, possibly unrelated, but maybe not, I just tried running my XP mode and it won't load.  I checked the directory, and the VHD file is 0 kb.  From what I understand, I think it's gone.

There's still an XP mode saved state (last hibernation) file .VSV, but I don't think that will help me.

 

So, can anybody tell me if they believe Disk Defrag could have bombed because of a hybrid drive?  Is this something to worry about?

Is it likely that Disk Defrag is the culprit in losing the XP mode VHD?  And is it really gone? 

 

Why is Disk Defrag running automatically anyway?  Is this a default Windows setting or something that Dell may have setup on the machine?

 

Thanks everyone.

 

 



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#2 technonymous

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:05 AM

Windows xp mode and disk defrag are both heavy loads on a computer. So running both can make a system crawl or crash. Disk defragmenter is set to a schedule to run by default automatically. Here's instructions to turn it off/on or schedule...http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/3292-disk-defragmenter-schedule-turn-off.html

As far as your wisndows xp VHD file it does sound like it's toast. From the windows start button | all files | Windows virtual pc | windows virtual pc. In there is where you create or delete the VM's. Just select the VM in there if there is one and delete it. Then you can try going back to Windows xp mode and see if it rebuilds the default xp. Be aware though by default windows xp mode only uses 256mb of ram. You can customize it aftwards for better performance and give it 1024mb if your system has enough ram to allocate to it.
Moreover, if you are installing drivers, programs etc into windows xp it is wise to enable the "undo disk" feature. Inside Windows Virtual pc management you select the VM and go to the properties. In there you can change all the settings. Undo disk is a powerful feature as you have a choice to update or delete your changes. Get a virus, install a malware, browser gets hijacked? No problem just delete the changes and you are back to a clean VM from your last save.


Edited by technonymous, 19 November 2013 - 11:06 AM.


#3 jonas914

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:22 PM

XP Mode was not running at the time.  I think it was just a coincidental casualty of the defrag maybe.

The only programs running when it froze were Chrome and Outlook plus any background stuff that I can't easily list.

 

The interesting thing is, as I was typing this response a little while ago, it locked up again.  After rebooting, I checked and sure enough it was disk Defrag the last thing in the event viewer.  This time XP mode was unaffected (Had to reinstall it).

But now I'm scared of Disk Defrag.  What should I do?  I just now disabled the scheduler.   Do I have another problem to worry about though?

Is the Hybrid drive going to be an issue?  Dev Mgr reports the drive as:

ST500LM0 ST500LM000-1EJ16 SCSI Disk Device


Edited by jonas914, 20 November 2013 - 04:25 PM.


#4 technonymous

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:31 PM

Sometimes a HD will become so fragmented that defrag will not work and the only option is to format the drive and reinstall windows. You could try to do a disk cleanup by right clicking c: drive and disk cleanup button to clean out some of the junk files.

 

You could also check the integrity of the drive and see if there are bad sectors. From the start button go to run and type cmd in the run/search field and then right click the cmd.exe and run as administrator. After running this command it will ask if you want to run chkdsk at next bootup you enter yes.  example:   chkdsk /r c:

 

It could be that windows is using a old outdated generic driver that doesn't work out to well. By some research on that model it seems that the drive is 7 years old sosmewhere around 2006? It's likely you won't find any support for this drive. I would plan to buy a new drive as this one could be dying especially if you do find errors from the chkdsk report.



#5 jonas914

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:20 PM

Umm, I seriously doubt there existed a Solid State HYBRID drive 7 years ago!!

You obviously missed the earlier statement:  "I've got a new Dell M4800 laptop with the 500GB "Hybrid" drive w7/64"

http://www.seagate.com/internal-hard-drives/solid-state-hybrid/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive/?sku=ST500LM000

 

I don't know where you're finding your info, but it's a brand new machine with a brand new drive.

See the attached image, it is 0% fragmented.

 

 

Attached Files



#6 technonymous

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 05:04 PM

Oh sorry about that for the misinformation I pulled up what looked like an older section of their website. As for your problem just leave defrag disabled as there is no need to defrag an ssd. You're good to go. Oh and if you install like a virus suite like norton 360 or something disable the defrag in them as well or it'll throw out errors too. Good luck.


Edited by technonymous, 22 November 2013 - 12:56 AM.


#7 jonas914

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:17 PM

Hi again.  So, even though I told Defrag not to run on a schedule, something happened last night again.  I left my laptop running and came in today to find it completely unresponsive.   I had to force restart, and I checked the event viewer, and here are some things I found just before I rebooted (last things on the list hours before even coming in).

 

I left the machine alone before this start time, and the previous Application event while I was still present was an hour earlier, an SEP virus definition update.

 

These are the next application events until the lockup:

6:56pm - WARNING - Event ID 27 - Outlook - Calendar Folder property is missing

7:40pm - INFO - EventID 258 - Defrag - The disk defragmenter successfully completed boot optimization of OS (C:)

8:39pm - INFO - EventID 0 - gupdate - (no ID description, obviously) The following information was included with the event: Service started

8:39pm - INFO - EventID 0 - gupdate - (no ID description, obviously) The following information was included with the event: Service stopped

9:31pm - WARNING - Event ID 27 - Outlook - Calendar Folder property is missing

12:03am - INFO - EventID 8224 - VSS - The VSS service is shutting down due to idle timeout.

 

In the System log, I only have multiples of these over and over every couple of hours until the last one at 1:18am when there's nothing after it until the hard reboot.

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The Adobe Flash Player Update Service service entered the running state.

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The Adobe Flash Player Update Service service entered the stopped state.

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The Disk Defragmenter service entered the running state.

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The Disk Defragmenter service entered the stopped state. (this only happened once, and took 10 minutes in between.)

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The WinHTTP Web Proxy Auto-Discovery Service service entered the running state.

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The WinHTTP Web Proxy Auto-Discovery Service service entered the stopped state.

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The Google Update Service (gupdate) service entered the running state.

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The Google Update Service (gupdate) service entered the stopped state.

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The Volume Shadow Copy service entered the running state. (happened once)

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The Microsoft Software Shadow Copy Provider service entered the running state. (happened once)

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The Volume Shadow Copy service entered the stopped state. (happened once)

INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The Microsoft Software Shadow Copy Provider service entered the stopped state. (happened once)

1:18am - INFO - EventID 7036 - Service Control Manager - The WinHTTP Web Proxy Auto-Discovery Service service entered the stopped state.(This was the last system event)

 

In the Security log, the last event was Outlook trying to log into Exchange:

1:01AM - EventID 4648 - Microsoft Windows security - A logon was attempted using explicit credentials. (Process Name: C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office14\OUTLOOK.EXE)

 

Does this provide any clues????



#8 jonas914

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 03:44 PM

I left it on again overnight with no obvious applications open (just the background processes).  So, specifically, Outlook 2010 (connected to local Exchange server) was NOT open this time overnight, and it was not locked up the next day.

I am going out of town for Thanksgiving, so I'll have to try more later.



#9 technonymous

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:40 AM

The log looks normal to me except the last part that you posted. I see google updates, adobe updates, Not sure exactly how you have outlook setup. Does outlook check mail unattended? Is this computer shared with others? With the Event ID 4648 happens when something like a scheduled task is started with a users credentials and then another user logs on and trys to use the same thing. For starters e-mail should never auto do anything. E-mail is one of the top things that people get viruses from in the first place. Moreover, I tend to stay away from outlook and suggest others do to. Reason being, Microsoft doesn't support it anymore and it has many bugs and security issues and this is probably one of them. Microsoft now uses Microsoft Live Essentials which includes Live E-mail which is a lot like outlook but more robust.



#10 jonas914

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 05:50 PM

I've tried this again several times, and it's always when Outlook seems to be running that it will lock up overnight.

?? Any suggestions?



#11 hamluis

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 10:36 AM

Please download MiniToolBox  , save it to your desktop and run it.
 
Checkmark the following checkboxes:
  List last 10 Event Viewer log
  List Installed Programs
  List Users, Partitions and Memory size.
 
Click Go and paste the content into your next post.
 
Also...please Publish a Snapshot using Speccy - http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic323892.html/page__p__1797792#entry1797792 , taking care to post the link of the snapshot in your next post.
 
Louis



#12 jonas914

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 01:40 PM

Hey guys,

I know I haven't done all that you've asked, but my gut tells me it's something out of the ordinary.  I tried something for 4-5 days this last week.  I left my laptop on overnight, both with outlook running and closed, but this time I left iTunes running and playing back music from the HD on repeat.  It has NOT been frozen yet any day I've come in the morning so far.

 

Based on the symptoms and behavior, I'm suspecting that this issue must be related to the Hard Drive.  It's a Hybrid drive.  Maybe something with the controller/drivers/Windows/hardware that is not waking it back up after some time?

 

Can you guys think of any other tests along these lines I could do?



#13 jonas914

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:32 PM

I've also tried leaving a song playing on repeat in Media Player.  Pretty sure I'm dealing with a Hard drive not waking up issue.  Wouldn't that explain the lack of event log information?



#14 technonymous

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 05:48 AM

Sorry I couldn't reply sooner as the US West out here is getting slammed with a snow storm and power outages. I did a little research into your problem and it seems as a issue in particular with hybrid drives & other certain hardware mixes. So, meaning it may have issues with certain motherboard and others not etc. I suggest making sure the SSD is driver/firmware updated and head to the makers website. Consult with them to see if they have a specific solution or fix. Also go into power options and adjust s1 to s3 or vice versa. As the web article suggest. You maybe have to turn hybernation off completely. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear; SSD is new and of course new things comes with new problems. So I would read this article and look over the SOLUTIONS section of it and go from there. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/06/ask-ars-do-solid-state-drives-cause-problems-with-sleep-mode/ Good luck.


Edited by technonymous, 08 February 2014 - 05:51 AM.


#15 SteveOC

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 06:49 PM

Might be worth checking all of your drivers - especially if you have updated any of them or any were updated by Windows updates.

I have 2 laptops here with SSDs and Sleep/Hibernate works fine on both but I have had issues in the past with driver updates for other devices causing issues with Sleep/Hibernate.

 

Virtual PC (XPMODE) is unlikely to cause performance issues on a modern machine (especially quad cores) in my opinion as it is unable to utilise more than 1 core per VM and Ram is also usually pegged at 1-2GB.

 

Not too sure about Hybrids but running defrag on an SSD is not only not recommended, but can actually reduce the lifespan of the drive.

 

Steve O.






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