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Power Issues


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#1 Meanie

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:27 PM

I have a Dell XPS 600 desktop which is no longer powering on properly. I currently have it unplugged and attempted to remove the power supply and discovered it's the entire bottom of the CPU case. When I plug power to it, it would go on and off repeatedly. I can't even control it while holding the power button for an extended time. It simply acts as if it's starting, then shuts down, then starts, then shuts down. Therefore, I assume it's the PSU, or more so, hoping that's all it is.

 

Is there a way to test the PSU before I make the plunge of buying another one?

 

Thank you



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#2 MrBruce1959

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:16 AM

This post has been edited. Original instructions posted here were removed by me as it was stated to me that those instructions I posted did not apply to this hardware.

After removing the content here, until I could further research facts and indorse those into this topic, I instructed the forum author to scroll down to another post where another member supposedly posted the correct instructions for testing a PSU.

It has since been proven by my continued research, that the original content here did apply. This information was again added in a later post of this same topic.

Sorry for the confusion this has caused other members who are currently reading or following this topic.

Bruce.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 19 November 2013 - 09:30 PM.

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#3 MrBruce1959

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:25 AM

As I stated I would continue in a separate post to avoid confusion.

You're currently working on a computer with a power cycling problem. The problem could be with your power supply and it can also be related to other devices you have plugged into your computer. Add in video cards, faulty keyboards and mice, faulty USB devices can contribute to the cycling off and on condition. Have you recently added any new hardware to this computer setup?

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#4 Platypus

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:32 AM

Also check if the mainboard has indications of faulty (leaking, split) capacitors, like discussed here for example:

 

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17654


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#5 Meanie

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:04 AM

As I stated I would continue in a separate post to avoid confusion.

You're currently working on a computer with a power cycling problem. The problem could be with your power supply and it can also be related to other devices you have plugged into your computer. Add in video cards, faulty keyboards and mice, faulty USB devices can contribute to the cycling off and on condition. Have you recently added any new hardware to this computer setup?

Bruce.

 

 

The computer isn't used much other than video surveillance, which will be it's primary function once I install the proper software, that is, if I get it running again. 

 

I've removed/uninstalled programs in preparation for a video monitoring program and never had a problem. I was mainly using it daily to play Spider Solitaire because I like that style as opposed to the newer layout. The last time I tried starting it (yesterday) no devices were plugged in (keyboard, mouse, internet cable, USB, etc.). It was the CPU and power cord only. I haven't added any new hardware or software but I have been keeping the machine on constantly which is why I believe it could be the PSU.

 

I will perform the test this evening and determine what I find.

 

Thank you 


Edited by Meanie, 18 November 2013 - 10:07 AM.


#6 dc3

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:51 AM

The purpose of this procedure is to bypass the motherboard to test a ATX PSU

 

The PSU in the Dell XPS 600 is not a ATX form factor PSU.  The pin configuration of the 20/24 pin connector is not the same as the ATX form factor connector.  You cannot use those instruction with this PSU.

 

If you need to replace the PSU you will need to purchase it from either Dell or a distributor who carries this non ATX form factor PSU.

 

If you can get the PSU to run long enough for testing purposes you can use the instruction below to test the rail voltages.

 

 

 
Reading Desktop PSU Rail Voltages
 
Caution: Please read this before continuing.
 
 

  • Since it will be necessary for your computer to be on during this procedure, you need to be aware that you will be working with live 12Volt DC potentials, which if handled improperly may lead to electrical shock. 

 

  • There are electronics inside the case that are very susceptible to electrostatic discharges. To protect your computer, touch the metal of the case to discharge yourself of any electrostatic charges before touching any of the components inside.

 

  • If you are not comfortable doing this procedure, then I would suggest that you not use this tutorial. The risks involved are minimal, but are there nevertheless. Anyone who uses this tutorial will be doing so at their own risk.

 
 
There are two devices commonly used to read the rail voltages: a PSU tester, and a multimeter. 
 
The PSU tester is the easiest to use since all that is necessary is to plug the different connectors into the tester and read the results on the LCD display. The problem with most of these is that they only perform a pass/fail test.  They will not provide you with actual voltage readings.
 
There are a variety of multiple meters, but this tutorial will address Analog and Digital multimeters. The advantage of these meters is that you will be able to obtain accurate real time voltage readings.
 
For those of you who wish to know more about multimeters there is an excellent article in Wikipedia.
 
 
Analog Multimeter
 
th_analogedited.jpg
 
 
An Analog multimeter is a little more complicated to use. Both Analog and Digital multimeters need to be set to the appropriate voltage, but with an Analog multimeter, you will need to choose the voltage range and must read the proper scale. 
 
The Analog multimeter uses a needle display which moves from 0 across the scale until it reaches the voltage being tested. This multimeter has five major linear divisions with multiple scales to read a variety of ranges. An example would be three different ranges. The first is graduated in increments of 0 through 5, the second, 0 through 10, and the third, 0 through 25. Each of these ranges are subdivided into divisions that are graduated into tenths. In order to read 12 volts the 0 through 25 range would be the appropriate one. 
 
Because DC voltage has positive and negative potentials this device is polar sensitive, this means that if you reverse the two probes when reading a positive DC voltage it will read as a negative voltage. This is actually necessary to read negative DC voltages. The two probes are differentiated by their color, Black (negative), and Red (positive). To read a positive DC voltage, the correct probes must be used with their corresponding potentials (positive to positive and negative to negative). 
 
With the probes being used normally to read a negative DC voltage, the needle moves from the 0 to the left, "pegging" the needle. By reversing the probes you can properly read the negative voltages.
 
Digital Multimeter
 
th_digitalmeteredited.jpg
 
 
The Digital multimeter (DMM) is much simpler to use. As was mentioned previously, you will need to set the appropriate voltage. One of the advantages is that the DMM has an LCD display with a numeric readout, so there are not any multiple scales to read. Another advantage is that most DMMs are autoranging when reading voltages, which means that you will not need to set the range with these DMMs. A DMM will read both positive and negative DC voltages and display them correctly. When reading a negative voltage, a minus sign will appear on the display before the numeric value. This still is a polar sensitive device, so you will still need to use the positive and negative probes with their corresponding potentials. 
 
There are five different DC rail voltages which are color coded. The Black wires are always negative.
 
Yellow +12VDC
 
Blue -12VDC
 
Red +5VDC
 
White -5VDC
 
Orange +3.3VDC
 
There are only three voltages that can be measured easily without disconnecting the 20/24 pin connector from the motherboard: +12V, +5V, and +3.3V.
 
The +12V and +5V voltages can be read from a four pin Molex power connector.
 
Four pin Molex power connector
 
th_250px-Molex_female_connector.jpg
 
 
The same voltages can be taken from a four pin SATA power connector, but in order to read the +3.3V you will need to read this from a five pin SATA power connector as seen below.
 
Five pin SATA power connector.
 
th_sata-power-cable.jpg
 
To read these voltages you will need to insert the Black (-) probe into any of the black  sockets, and insert the Red (+) probe in the different colored voltage sockets.   To read the voltages from a SATA power connector it is easiest to insert the probes into the bac k of the connector where the wires enter.  Unfortunately the sockets of the modular SATA power connectors are not accessible from the back, so the readings will need to be made from the socket side.  Some probes are going to be too large to fit in these sockets, so you may need to insert a piece of wire into the socket of which you want to read the voltage of and place the probe on this for your reading.  To reduce the potential of creating a short I would suggest taking the ground potential from another connector so that the two wires will remain physically separated.
 
Caution:  It is very important to make sure that you don't allow the two probes to touch each other when taking the voltage readings.  This will cause a short which could damage the PSU or other components.
 
To get accurate readings of the rail voltages it is important that there be a load on the PSU. In order to do this I would suggest downloading Prime95 for this purpose. This program was designed to be used by overclockers to put a full load on the RAM and CPU to determine the stability of their overclocking.  Because of this it will put stress on the CPU and RAM which will create higher than normal temperatures.  For this reason I would suggest not running this program any longer than is necessary.  I would also suggest that an inspection be made of the interior of the case to make sure that there isn’t an accumulation of dust which would impede adequate cooling.  Pay special attention to the heat sink and fan assembly on the CPU.  If there is a dedicated graphics card with a fan installed on it, look at this fan as well.      
 
 
Readings should not have variances larger than +/- five percent.  
 
Maximum.........Minimum
12.6V.................11.4V
5.25V.................4.75V
3.47V.................3.14V

Edited by dc3, 18 November 2013 - 12:08 PM.

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#7 MrBruce1959

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:21 PM

Thanks for posting that information DC3! Very much appreciated that you caught that error and corrected it!

Bruce.

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#8 Meanie

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:19 PM

But if the power will not stay on, how can it be tested?



#9 MrBruce1959

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:22 PM

Meanie

Please Personal Message me your Dell service tag number.

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#10 dc3

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:45 PM

Is the PSU connector a 20 pin or a 24 pin.

 

Is the pinout (color of wire and pin number) the same as it is here.  Example, is pin #11 grey?


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#11 Meanie

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 07:59 PM

Meanie

Please Personal Message me your Dell service tag number.

Bruce.

Where is that located?



#12 Meanie

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:09 PM

Is the PSU connector a 20 pin or a 24 pin.

 

Is the pinout (color of wire and pin number) the same as it is here.  Example, is pin #11 grey?

24. Not the same as diagram



#13 MrBruce1959

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:10 PM

Okay, I am going to try to help based on your Dell service tag number. This way I am 10,000% correct with how to help you.
 
First, your Dell computer should have a sticker on it which states Service Tag on it, there is a series of numbers and letters in this string of characters that I need from you. If you click my name it will bring you to my profile page. From there is a button that you can click to send me a (PM) personal Message. In it please type your Dell service tag number, only your computer has this number and Dell's data base should have a record of what was installed on this computer for hardware and software. This will tell me if your PSU (power supply) is just like my Dell, I have a standard ATX power supply in my Dell XPS direct from Dell and I need to know what Dell put into yours with no guessing.

 

Thank you.......

 

Bruce..........another Dell XPS 600 owner... :thumbup2:


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#14 slgrieb

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:00 AM

While the power supply for an XPS 600 isn't a standard ATX form factor power supply, it uses a standard 24 pin power connector. The proprietary Dell power connectors were all 20 pin connectors for Pentium II and III systems. That means a regular power supply tester works with the XPS 600 PSU. Good news, since you can spend around $80 to $200 for one of these power supplies. So I would definitely want to test the PSU before I bought a replacement. Also, when PSU needs to be tested under load, that doesn't refer to CPU activity, it just means an electrical load. The original psu testers were just 20 pin connectors with the Power_On signal jumpered with an led and a 50 Ohm resistor to provide an electrical load for the PSU.


Edited by slgrieb, 19 November 2013 - 12:04 AM.

Yes, Mr. Death... I'll play you a game! But not CHESS !!! BAH... FOOEY! My game is... 
WIFFLEBALL!

 


#15 MrBruce1959

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:54 AM

Okay, let's go back to the power connector again. I originally posted instructions on how to test a power supply's ability to power up independent of the motherboard's controller. I removed that information from post #2, hastily, because I did not have time to re-check at the moment, if it DID apply to this topic's power supply.

What I meant by STANDARD, was how the power to motherboard connector is wired up. The test, jumpered the TWO PS ON wires together (Pin 16 to black wire ground), this causes the PSU to power up independently of the towers power switch and the motherboard's controller. It tells us if the PSU is at fault.

Now, I am posting a link to a 24 pin ATX connector, showing wire code and sequence of wires on the pins. Recheck that image and tell me if that connector matches the one on this computers power supply and is the same.


http://pinouts.ru/Power/atx_v2_pinout.shtml

Thank you.

Bruce.

Edited: Added underscores to text.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 19 November 2013 - 12:05 PM.

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