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Abortion! Whats Your Thoughts On The Matter?


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#1 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 06:28 PM

What do you think on abortion?

To me its murder.

Many teens do this so they can continue to go to school and not feel bad or whatever.

My simple solution to fix this problem is...

IF YOU DONT WANT A KID DONT DO WHAT IT TAKES TO GET ONE!
Thats what my youth pastor said.

So whats your opinions on it?

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#2 Silver_beetle

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 11:42 AM

At first I thought this post was locked, since there were no replies...

I'm troubled by it, but I stop short at saying its murder. I think it needs to remain available to those who need it. The women I've known who have had abortions haven't had them simply for convenience, nor did they arrive at their decisions lightly. Granted, that's anecdotal, but I suspect its truer than the Right-to-Life crowd care to admit.

Having said that, I think the world would be a better place if there were no abortions, but I'm also not naive enough to think that simply outlawing them will make the go away. We need to attack the root cause, which is unwanted pregnancy. It's not as simple as telling girls not to get pregnant in the first place. My wife got pregnant at age 30 when she was using birth control, ditto for a friend of hers. Neither of them aborted, BTW. So, if we really want to eliminate abortions, we need to stop harassing people getting them (how Christian is it to look up someone's name from their license plate and call them at home to harass them?) and work to help women and girls not get prenant in the first place. We can start by having condoms put in school vending machines, (We're OK with a Snickers bar in a school vending machine, but not with something that will keep our daughters from getting pregnant?) educating teens about birth control and how it is the males' responsibility equally, and removing the stigma about birth control in some communities.

In short, I agree with Bill Clinton: Safe, legal and rare.

#3 Silver_beetle

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 11:48 AM

What do you think on abortion?


IF YOU DONT WANT A KID DONT DO WHAT IT TAKES TO GET ONE!
Thats what my youth pastor said.

So whats your opinions on it?


True, of course, but profoundly unrealistic.

#4 ddeerrff

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 01:11 PM

We can start by having condoms put in school vending machines,

Absolutely the *WRONG* thing to do.

We should not make condoms readily avaible to thoses who shouldn't be having sex in the first place. That would be very similar to telling them "Do not drink and drive - but if you do, be sure to wear your selt belt. In both cases society is implying that the act is 'OK' when it is NOT.
Derfram
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#5 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 03:59 PM

Thats right dont make it handy for them to get condoms...
A teen not married should not have sex with anyone at anytime and that would stop unwanted pregancy out of high school and marriage.

It should be more frowned on I think when Males go talking about "what they did last night with so and so" while in school and dont make them feel good about what they did. Were not animals so dont act like one.

What might help is to take this junk off of tv that makes it look like they can have sex with people all they want and get away with it. Show the truth on these "entertainment" shows call comedies!

#6 yano

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 11:34 PM

Regardless of whether it is right or not you know who in your school does it. Even if you talked to them, they aren't going to stop. It's a fact.

It applies down to the basic principle of human society "if one shouldn't do it, I will!"

It's not only the rebilious teen attitude that contributes to it, but also the fact that it shouldn't be done, so one finds the need to do it.

Think of it this way; when you first cursed when you were little, your parents told you it was wrong. However, since you didn't understand the full meaning of the word, one may think of it as just a word not use arounds parents....

~~~

Now about the condoms being in a vending machine at schools; I think having them actually in a vending machine is too extreme to prevent STD's or anything else.

However though for the ones that will do it no matter what anybody says, they should at least use protection. But forcing the protection to them, is like what ddeerrff said about the drunks.

~~

Now back to the real issue of abortions. I think abortions should remain legal. Not only for the sake of innocent woman being raped, or such cases, but to prevent the underground and unsanitary abortions from being performed. That is the only reason abortions were legalized in the first place. Too many woman were getting abortions in the back alley with a coat hanger.... to me I'd rather see any woman have it done properly than underground. I think it would be more damaging to the woman if it were performed under unsanitary conditions than if the woman had the baby and just abused it or abandoned it.

~~

For the religious folks; about when life begins. In short, Christians believe life begins at conception. However, realistically no person has been physically created yet to be killed. So how can you kill something before it is there? If it is only at the micro level, and you stop the process before it begins, then how can you really call it murder? Isn't the definition of

murder - # To kill (another human) unlawfully.
# To kill brutally or inhumanly.
# To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.

A. Abortion doesn't UNLAWFULLY kill anyone in the USA. Currently abortions are legal, so if you believe life begins at conception then technically you are not comitting murder.

B. To kill inhumanly? Hm.. yea right.. sounds like one killed a human using alien-ish ways... :thumbsup:

~~~

In addition, to the above mentioned; abortions are mostly done to prevent an unwanted baby from being brought into this world. Most of the time when teenagers have babies, that child is brought up usually in poor conditions (usualy considered middle-class and below here) where it would probably be mistreated because A the teenage father or mother may not want anything to do with the child. So what is really the point of bringing a child into life and sufferring through all the neglect? If you send a child to an adoption agency there chances for having a more meaningful and wanting life increase.

Realistically if we didn't have abortions, could you imagine what the world population would be?

~~~

In the end my opinion is as simple as this:

Woman should have the option of abortion. It is her body, her baby (in the case in which the real father leaves), her responsibility.

(quick addition: Even Christian woman have abortions. Most of the time though it is for raped woman.)

Edited by yano, 03 May 2006 - 11:40 PM.


#7 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 12:27 AM

Too many woman were getting abortions in the back alley with a coat hanger...


I did not know this and man....gross...goodness


A Bible verse

Jeremiah 1:4-5a: 4The word of the LORD came to me saying, 5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart...."

You were something before you were born to God because he knew you would be born before you were.

Realistically if we didn't have abortions, could you imagine what the world population would be?


Thats like saying if we didnt have murderers out there can you imagine what the population would be.

Here is another link about abortion and the Bible.
http://www.abortion-and-bible.com/

Edited by cowsgonemadd3, 04 May 2006 - 12:28 AM.


#8 MaraM

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 01:15 AM

Too many woman were getting abortions in the back alley with a coat hanger...


I did not know this and man....gross...goodness


A Bible verse

Jeremiah 1:4-5a: 4The word of the LORD came to me saying, 5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart...."

You were something before you were born to God because he knew you would be born before you were.

Realistically if we didn't have abortions, could you imagine what the world population would be?


Thats like saying if we didnt have murderers out there can you imagine what the population would be.

Here is another link about abortion and the Bible.
http://www.abortion-and-bible.com/




I'm not faulting anyone's beliefs here - it's just I sit here reading this and feel so very sad.

Sad that in our world, we often seem so quick to condem others - if they don't believe the same things we do, they are 'wrong'. Yet, what about putting ourselves in another shoes - about not casting the first stone.

Life is rarely 'black or white' - in fact, the older I become the more I realize that life is truly filled with many many gray areas - and perhaps this is the way it really should be.

We are each responsible for our own actions. I would not personally choose to have an abortion - but neither would I 'force' a woman with half a dozen children with a world of woes to have another. Nor a 13 year old girl live through not only the horror of being raped, but being forced to carry a 24 hour reminder of the worse ordeal of her young life. And the thought of woman having to return to their only resort - 'back room hanger' options - is enough to make my heart quake.

And I watch so many 'anti-abortionist' standing outside clinics - filled with hate and fury at these people they see as "evil doers". How sad - and how full of judgement we can be towards others when we know nothing of their lives.

I know this doesn't perhaps have a direct bearing on the topic of abortion here, but may I please just add something here? I have great respect for those that 'believe', whether it be Christianity or another religion. But again, if people could perhaps just remember that what is 'right' to one is not necessarily 'right' to another, perhaps thousands wouldn't be slaughtered in 'religious' wars. Sad sigh.

And on a more personal level, never once have I ever even thought of attempting to convince someone that their religious beliefs were 'wrong' - in fact, I very likely would 'fight to my death' to ensure they had the right to believe in what they chose to. Yet, so so so often some seem to feel the 'need' to convince me that my not following an 'organized religion' is wrong and 'sinful'. How wonderful it would be to be given the same courtesy as I give to others. Gentle sigh.

So hang on to your beliefs, whatever they may be - but please do try ever so hard to remember that few of us truly have any concept of the living hell so many others may be going through - and therefore, perhaps we should 'judge not'.

Kind thoughts,
Mara
Never let your computer realize you are in a hurry or just typing the last few words of a vital document.

While outer events might make one happy or sad, happiness itself is entirely internal, and at all times completely within one's power.

#9 HEL_Master

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 07:02 AM

i have no problem with abortion, its just as bad as smashing an egg..

#10 yano

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 08:53 PM

[quote name='HEL_Master' post='279691' date='May 4 2006, 08:02 AM']i have no problem with abortion, its just as bad as smashing an egg..[/quote]
Exactly.

~~

[quote name='http://www.abortion-and-bible.com/#altab']American physicians kill more than this number of unborn children by legal abortions every day, but no one becomes outraged or mourns.[/quote]
If abortions are killing something that isn't born then why is it considered murder?


[quote]Many pro-life advocates claim that the same reasoning applies to abortion. Although abortion is legal under current U.S. law, it is not legal when it is held up to a higher law, namely, the law of God.

Let's assume, for argument's sake, that the Bible is indeed the law of God. Unfortunately, this doesn't help the pro-life movement, because there is no Biblical law against abortion. (Abortion is as old as childbirth.) The Hebrew word for "kill" in the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" is rasach, which is more accurately interpreted as "murder," or illegal killing judged harmful by the community. It is itself a relative, legalistic term!

Many forms of killing were considered legal in ancient Israel, and levitical law listed many of the exceptions. Generally, levitical law permitted killing in times of war, the commission of justice and in self-defense. Sometimes, God even gave Israel permission to kill infant children. In I Samuel 15:3, God ordered Saul to massacre the Amalekites: "Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants…"[/quote]

[quote]Some pro-life Christians claim that just because there is no commandment prohibiting abortion does not give us the right to perform it. Since human life is so precious, we should err on the side of caution, they argue. But according to this logic, we should not drive cars! Each year in America, there are about 40,000 deaths due to automobile accidents. These deaths are accidental, to be sure, but our decision to participate in a mode of transportation that we already know will kill 40,000 people is not accidental.[/quote]

Source

#11 BanditFlyer

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:34 PM

I've always been a big supporter of post-birth abortion, especially in Ted Kennedy's case. You really shouldn't tell his mother what to do with her body. If she wants Teddy dead, I say let the woman do as she pleases. :thumbsup:

Edited by BanditFlyer, 04 May 2006 - 10:39 PM.


#12 WereBo

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 04:47 PM

I believe the choice should be entirely down to the mother concerned whether to terminate or notPosted Image. Only she knows whether she is capable of nurturing or neglecting the child.

I realise there are cases where the father will be involved in the decision, but termination should definitely be available if required.

I reckon it's better for a baby to be born into a family that will nurture and care for it than to be born to a parent that has neither the time, patience, skills or even the will to devote the time it's going to take to raise a decent human being.

I do believe in Karma, so although the foetus is terminated, the spirit WILL be reborn again. it's all part of Life's cycle.

:thumbsup:

Posted Image



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#13 snyper

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 08:29 AM

Hey cgm! This a good topic.

I like reading your posts, for some reasons you really know how to push my buttons!! :thumbsup:

My beliefs on abortion are not fully set in stone..but


1. a 13 year old girl -rape victim should be allowed an abortion.

2.a child should not be brought into this world if it is not wanted

3. i strongly disagree with aborting a baby in the later terms of pregnancy,

4. the religous arguments should not be counted for the simple reason, they are the same people that outlawed condoms in ireland up to 20 yeard ago, on the view that it was interfering/medaling.

5. Condoms should be readly available for teens One can ignore the issue, but the fact is they are having unprotected sex, making condoms available is not encouraging sex, sex is happenning, we need to encourage protected sex


Again CGM, this a good topic! and needs debate.[/


Brian

Edited by snyper, 07 May 2006 - 08:30 AM.


#14 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 12:15 PM

Is there a good enough reason to justify murder?

#15 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 12:30 PM

I gotta go w/ Yano on this one. I liked his first post, and it explained a lot of my opinions very well.

I've always thought that it's better to "terminate" the pregnancy than bring another child into the world that'll just be horribly mistreated or drift around the adoption homes and orphanages for the majority of their adolescense (sp?).

A Bible verse

Jeremiah 1:4-5a: 4The word of the LORD came to me saying, 5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart...."

You were something before you were born to God because he knew you would be born before you were.

So does that mean menstrating is a sin? What about what 96% of males do on a daily basis? (people know what i'm talking about, don't act like you don't....) If "god knows us before we had formed", then he knows us long before our fathers or grandfathers are born....

Also, if you take the bible verse to support anti-abortion, then you have to interpret what "formed" means. Also, not everyone believes that god makes children. It could always be, you know, the mother's egg and the father's sperm....

I say let the mother choose, it's her body, and if she wants the baby, she can keep it. If she doesn't want it, there's no reason to bring another unwanted child into the world (of course, not if it's already 8 months into the pregnancy, lol.) I don't have enough biological knowledge about when babies form what they do to make a call for a time when abortions should be illegal....

Is there a good enough reason to justify murder?

Well, apparently it's ok if it's in order to convert heathens (Crusades) or "provide closure and a deterence" (death penalty) :thumbsup:

Edited by Heretic Monkey, 07 May 2006 - 02:49 PM.





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