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New build advise.


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#1 DONBEL

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:16 PM

Long time no post but I visit the forum regularly to read the posts and learn. You all helped me some time back with an upgrade of my HP desktop and I have had no issues with it since.  However, I am retiring soon and want to build as future-proof a desktop as I can within reason so I can enjoy playing around in my "golden" years with my photography hobby, especially HDR and maybe some wildlife video and editing. Also I'm leaving open the option of gaming although I don't now and may never.

 

What I've decided on so far is to go AMD for both cost and consistent MoBo sockets.  However, I like the idea of the Intel CPUs having integrated graphics.  I couldn't find good info on whether or not the top AMD CPUs also do integrated graphics well or is that what is coming with the Kaveri series?  I want to get a good, powerful motherboard and like the features on the ASUS Crossfire series but they are expensive and are probably overkill.  The power management controls, easy overclocking options, abundance of USB 3.0 sockets, better capacitors and cooling management all sounded good but for all I know they may be available in other brands, lower models and for less money.  Any suggestions? I was looking at the AMD FX 8350 Black Box. 

 

For RAM I'm looking at 16 GB of 1866 DDR3 because I fell in love with RAMDISK and want 4 GB on my new system. My current system loads the latest version of GIMP in about 40 seconds.  With it in Ramdisk it's 4.5 sec.!!! Very impressive. Do you have preferences here?  Crucial, G Skill? Also, is there an advantage to 2 X 8 GB vs. 4 X 4 GB, especially if I'm designating part of the RAM to RAMDISK?  

 

I will be also adding an SSD for my operating system and some programs, but I don't think I need a large one--maybe only 120 GB. 

 

I plan to take from my existing system the very nice 650 watt PSU, the DVD writer that I never use, and keep the existing 350GB HDD.  Also I currently have a 1.0 TB external WD10EZEX 7200 rpm external HDD I want to bring inside for storage.

 

I upgraded my cooler when I did my last upgrade but I don't know it it can handle a FX 8350.  I'll worry about that when I get closer to the build itself.

 

And last but not least, I have a standard ATX case.  I'm thinking of maybe moving up a form factor in case I do decide to add high-end graphics cards in the future. Does that sound necessary at this time?

 

Obviously, cost is a factor but it is flexible at the moment.  This is all more for preliminary design and planning as I'm not sure at this point even which processor to go with.

 

I'd appreciate any thoughts, guidance, suggestions or questions you guys might have and will gladly give you any additional info you need.


Edited by hamluis, 23 August 2013 - 04:48 PM.
Moved from Internal Hardware to System Building - Hamluis.


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#2 GreenGiant117

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 01:38 PM

Hopefully this helps, I will go through one thing at a time.

 

1) RAM: if you get 16 GB you really wont have a need for RAMDisk, 16 is more than enough for all but the most intense of edits.

     a) You list 2 of the better brands, I would also look at Corsair, brand isnt a HUGE factor, everyone has their preferences.

     B) The desirable configuration would be 4X4GB, this distributes the load across more sticks, and gives you twice the connections to the board.

     c) As far as speed is concerned 1866 should be more than enough

 

2) SSD: I would highly recommend the Samsung 840 120 or 128GB (sometimes one is cheaper than the other by a fair amount), again this comes down a lot to people's opinion, the intel drives are phenomenal but pricey, Kingston also offers some good ones.

 

3) Case: an ATX case should hold any video card that you would want to use, there are very few Extended ATX AMD Motherboards, though if you really want to get a Full Tower case there are some nicer ones for not too much (100-150)

 

4) CPU: 8350 is a solid choice, very nice processor, plenty of power to it, it shouldnt get too hot since you wont be driving it too hard, but most coolers that are rated for AM3 will still mount to AM3+ and if it is a good one then it should be fine.

     a) The AMD chips with integrated graphics are the APU line (mounting to FM# sockets) for any video/picture editing you would want a separate video card so I would not recommend this.

 

5) Motherboard: I personally prefer MSI or ASUS brand boards, most of the features you mentioned in the ASUS Crossfire are available in the lower models, if you look at the 990FX boards you should find all that you are looking for. The Crossfire series is for just that, Crossfire, yes you should get a separate video card but I dont think that two are needed.

     a) USB 3.0 can be added later on through PCI cards so if the ones you look at dont have all the USB 3.0 slots you need but everything else looks great I would go for it then add on.

 

6) HDD: Leave you WD as an external, aside from the fact that is would be difficult to get inot the case, and that it was more expensive than a bare bones drive which are fairly cheap these days anyways (right around 100 for a 2TB, 130 for a 3), this will allow you to keep backups externally of all your things just in case.

 

7) Graphics card: I would suggest getting a 7870 GHz or for a little more a 7950, those should have the power to render video and pictures with ease, and allow for some decent gaming if you want to.

 

8) Power Supply: The one that you have should be fine, as long as it has all of the right connectors (20+4/24 pin for mobo, 2x 6 pin etc) even with the above mentioned video cards.

 

 

All said and done with the parts listed you are looking at.... 800-1300 (ranging from no case, the lower graphics card, and no power supply to everything ) and if you shop sales and piece it together you can potentially lower that quite a bit.



#3 DONBEL

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:32 PM

Thanks for the detailed reply. Most of what you told me just validates kinda what I suspected except re: the integrated graphics in AMD CPUs.  Are you saying that there are AMD chips with integrated graphic but they take a different socket/motherboard? FM# vs. AM3+ ?  And would I need a separate video card with the FM# or the AM3+?  

 

I'll check the video cards out and check my connectors on the power supply.  I have right now an old 4660 card I picked up cheap a few years ago but I suspect it isn't of much use.  Doesn't seem to do much, has no new compatible drivers for Win7 64 bit but more or less seems to be working.  

 

Actually have a USB 3.0 card in my system now with a 7 slot USB 3.0 hub so, duh, don't need to go crazy about how many slots the MoBo has.  

 

Will research motherboards more and when the time comes post a complete list of components for you guys to peruse and advise.  As always, thanks for helping an old guy become a geek and love it.



#4 DJBPace07

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:26 AM

AMD has two different types of processors, CPU's and APU's.  The CPU is the standard CPU with the FX line being the performance processors.  The APU's take a less powerful CPU and add a Radeon GPU to the CPU PCB.  The APU's begin with A followed by a number, such as the A8 or A10.  Because of the redesigned APU, they take a different socket, which is FM2 for right now.  The GPU on the APU's use system memory for video RAM and are good for gaming at medium quality settings with some games.  If you're going to be doing any serious gaming, you would probably want an add-in GPU.


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#5 DONBEL

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:19 PM

Okay.  With your help and some research I've chosen these components:

 

     Asus M5 A97 LE r 2.0 970 FX motherboard

 

     AMD FX8350 CPU

 

     MSI R7870-2 GD5T/OC GPU

     

     Patriot Viper 8GB (2x4)x 2 DDR3 SRAM 1866 RAM

     

     Kingston HyperX 120GB SSD

 

I plan to use my existing case and 650w PSU and my DVD+R DL RW drive I have now.  I might add a better cooler but I believe I upgraded pretty well on that front with my last upgrade.  I see what look like good ones in the $50 range and I don't really want to mess with liquid cooling.  I do see that Zalman has some nice fanless coolers that seem to give good test results.  Any thoughts on them?

 

So, guys...how does the build look?  Any serious weak links or unnecessary overkill?  I have a nice 28" LCD 1080 monitor now but might later replace it with about a 36" or so LED at a higher resolution to enjoy this better graphics card and add a Bose speaker system...but that's for later.

 

Thanks again.



#6 DJBPace07

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:44 PM

Looks decent.  If you're going to use SLI or Crossfire, you would want a 990FX board, but for single GPU setups, that's good.

 

You will want a CPU cooler with a fan.  The FX CPU's are power hungry and can get hot if you stress them.


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#7 DONBEL

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:14 PM

Thanks, DJBPace07, wasn't sure how hot those FX CPUs got so you answered my questions.  Won't probably ever need to Crossfire/SLI .  

 

One quick question:  I've played with RAMDISK a bit and was amazed at how fast it was even with my slow RAM.  With new Mobo's now having the capacity for 128 GB of RAM at, like, 2800 mHz, wouldn't RAMDISK  potentially be an even faster option than an SSD?  8 GB for the computer and 120 GB on RAMDISK?  I guess initial start up times might be a little slower as the RAM loads from the HDD but other than that, what would be the downsides?  I'm sure there are are drawbacks but I don't imagine it will be long before they put a GB of RAM on a Mobo.  Or, just thinking, only a big SSD to go with the RAMDISK and no HDDs?  Heat, maybe?  Just bouncing ideas around in my head...or, more accurately, probably OVER my head, LOL!



#8 DJBPace07

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:28 PM

Using RAM for storage is good if you have lots of excess RAM as it will always be faster than hard drives.  But, RAM is volitile memory so it is cleared every time the power is off.  Most consumer motherboards have a cap of 16GB or more, but I've never seen huge quantities of RAM, over 100GB, on them.  Those amounts are usually reserved for servers.


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#9 DONBEL

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:01 PM

Sorry I haven't replied to your last post.  Have had a lot of non-computer issues going on, one which seriously cut into my computer budget via vet bills for my cat!  Ouch. Build might not take place until closer to Xmas.  But I did decide to go ahead and go with the 990FX board.  May get the larger case for better cooling but I think I'm mostly set on what I want to go with.

 

As far as the RAM question went, I noticed while researching MOBOs that many had the capacity for a LOT of RAM.  Made me just think about the RamDisk question.  I would expect my load time to be slower if I really got crazy with the amount of stuff I moved to RAM.  I watched a Newegg TV video with the ASUS rep running RAMDISK on their setup with, of course, the best and fastest of everything but the benchmarks they ran were amazing and got me to just experiment on a small scale for curiosity's sake and was kinda fascinated with the possibilities.  They had a Core i7 3770K (I think) and either 16 or 32 GB of 2800 mHz RAM on ASUS's best motherboard. Interesting video.

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.  I will surely let everyone know the outcome of my build when I can get to it.



#10 DONBEL

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:59 PM

I posted a few months ago about a new build I would be doing.  Finally was able to get the parts and most of them arrived today.  To update: I am using a Corsair Carbide 400r case, a Thermaltake 750w 80+ PSU, the AMD FX8350 CPU, an ASUS M5A99X motherboard, a Kingston 120 GB SSD, a WD Green 1TB 64 MB cache HDD, a Sapphire Radeon 7870 GPU and 16 GB Patriot Viper 3 PV38G186C9KBL RAM.  I was reading the motherboard manual and that RAM is not listed in the QVL list for 1866 MHz RAM for this motherboard.  Only two Patriot models are listed.  The box the RAM is in says that the ram is designed for Intel 6/7/8 series platforms.  I've installed RAM in several computers before without a problem and never knew that it was CPU dependent.  Do I need to return this RAM for another model or even another brand or will it still work?  



#11 DONBEL

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:19 PM

I think I just posted under the wrong category.  I dropped my post in Internal Hardware instead of here.  My new build finally started this week with the usual cost overruns.  Did NOT use any parts from my old computer, went with the M5A99X EVO R 2.0 MoBo, bought a decent Corsair Carbide 400R case for everything. But here is my post on the wrong topic:

 

I posted a few months ago about a new build I would be doing.  Finally was able to get the parts and most of them arrived today.  To update: I am using a Corsair Carbide 400r case, a Thermaltake 750w 80+ PSU, the AMD FX8350 CPU, an ASUS M5A99X motherboard, a Kingston 120 GB SSD, a WD Green 1TB 64 MB cache HDD, a Sapphire Radeon 7870 GPU and 16 GB Patriot Viper 3 PV38G186C9KBL RAM.  I was reading the motherboard manual and that RAM is not listed in the QVL list for 1866 MHz RAM for this motherboard.  Only two Patriot models are listed.  The box the RAM is in says that the ram is designed for Intel 6/7/8 series platforms.  I've installed RAM in several computers before without a problem and never knew that it was CPU dependent.  Do I need to return this RAM for another model or even another brand or will it still work?  

 

Mod Edit:  Merged topics - Hamluis.


Edited by hamluis, 03 November 2013 - 03:33 PM.


#12 killerx525

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:41 PM

You shouldnt worry to much about the QVL list as the manufactuerer only test a small sample of ram but in theory your set of ram should work.

>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#13 hamluis

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 07:29 PM

My two cents...

 

Some motherboards are picky about which RAM modules they like...that's where the QVL comes in.  If a RAM module is listed on the QVL, it has actually been tested with that board and functionality is expected.  IME, Asus boards can fall into this category moreso than any other I have had.  But...with all the testing done today, I would expect RAM to be compatible with an Asus board as long as it meets the base specs for that board.

 

RAM is not designed to accommodate only an AMD processor or an Intel processor...RAM is made to conform to a given spec which is outlined as supported by a given motherboard...and the motherboard and CPU must match in terms of supported status/socket.  Since you have an AMD CPU, it matters not what might be said about Intel CPUs.

 

It should work with no problem, IMO.

 

Board Specs

 

RAM Purchased

 

CPU

 

Louis



#14 grassy

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 05:34 AM

My two cents...

 

Some motherboards are picky about which RAM modules they like...that's where the QVL comes in.  If a RAM module is listed on the QVL, it has actually been tested with that board and functionality is expected.  IME, Asus boards can fall into this category moreso than any other I have had.  But...with all the testing done today, I would expect RAM to be compatible with an Asus board as long as it meets the base specs for that board.

 

RAM is not designed to accommodate only an AMD processor or an Intel processor...RAM is made to conform to a given spec which is outlined as supported by a given motherboard...and the motherboard and CPU must match in terms of supported status/socket.  Since you have an AMD CPU, it matters not what might be said about Intel CPUs.

 

It should work with no problem, IMO.

 

Board Specs

 

RAM Purchased

 

CPU

 

Louis

 

Thats right Louis, from what i have heard on the Rog forum a lot of people have had problems with vengence ram on x79 platforms and especially with the ASUS rampage 4 extreme motherboard and i have been advised by many a member over there to stay away from the corsair vengence. Its good ram but just dosnt perform well on that particular board and x79 platform. Also too a good cpu can help if there is no hand shake problems Another thing to watch out for is false advertising when buying memory and cpu's as some retailers advertise such a module(ram) is made for a particular motherboard and platform and its totally wrong as i found out a couple of days ago.I now go to the manufacturers web site and take no notice of the retailers web advertising apart from the price i need to pay.Like you say the QVL is a great starting point. Thank god for the people on the forums as we would never know where we would stand especially for serious enthusiasts.I am changing my ram from the vengence series to the dominator to be on the safe side.


Edited by hamluis, 02 November 2013 - 11:19 AM.
Removed extra quote - Hamluis.

MY SYSTEM, IN-WIN 909 SILVER CASE, INTEL 3960X PROCESSOR,CORSAIR DOMINATOR 2133 RAM,RAMPAGE 4 EXTREME BLACK EDITION MOTHERBOARD, NVIDIA GTX980ti GRAPHICS CARD,,EK 980TI WATERBLOCK
CORSAIR FORCE SERIES GS 360GIG SSD,SANDISK EXTREME 480GIG SSD,SAMSUNG 180 GIG SSD,,BITSPOWER FITTINGS
2 B&W MM1 COMPUTER SPEAKERS,DELL U3011/30 INCH MONITOR,HEATKILLER PRO4 CPU WATERBLOCK,CORSAIR AX1200 POWER SUPPLY....


#15 DONBEL

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:53 PM

Sorry for taking so long to reply.  Have been meaning to let you all know how my build went but have been too busy to get to it.

 

Anyway, it was a great success!  I pulled a Windows Experience rating of 7.8 with my AMD FX 8350 and my Patriot Viper 3 1866 RAM getting the 7.8's  Everything else is 7.9.  Is Microsoft an Intel fanboy? The system is incredibly fast, does everything I hoped it would do and I thank all of you for you help.  The ASUS MOBO only sees my RAM as 1600 mHz but I think I found that I could up my voltage to the RAM on the MOBO a bit and get it to see the 1866mHz-- if I want to and at this point I don't see the need.  Haven't even visited the idea of putting RamDisk back on the computer because it simply doesn't need it. And the sound quality from that graphics card is beautiful.  I enjoy classical music and the 7870 picks up everything.

 

My next lesson will be overclocking...which might mean another new build when I shovel out the ashes of this one.  Just kidding...will be very careful and the ASUS MOBO is made for this.

 

Thanks again.






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