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Desktop fan issues


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#1 CameronKolarik

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 05:24 PM

Hello, I recently purchased a new graphics card (radeon hd 6450) and the pc ran fine for a while.

 

But today when I started the pc i got an error message that says the fan did not start properly, I opened the thing up and I can tell that it was the fan attached to the back of the PC, and not the graphic card fan or the cpu fan (I apologize if any of this is wrong, I am not very computer literate) the fan spins but it makes a loud grinding noise and just lightly touching it stops the fan.

 

Is it just the fan that needs to be replaced? could it be the power supply? I believe it currently is using a 250w power supply, which is under the 400w recomended, but I looked it up and it said that it should be fine, and that the card should run fine...?

 

Or could it be some other issue?

 

Thanks for any help you guys can provide.



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#2 TsVk!

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:19 PM

Yes, it's the noisy weak fan that needs replacing, they do die sometimes... easy fix. The power didn't cause this.

 

Using an under-powered power supply can cause really strange system behavior though. I'd fix that if I was you, to avoid possible file corruption and data loss.



#3 CameronKolarik

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 05:44 AM

Alright, thanks for the reply, I have not noticed any other issues so maybe it is just the fan. I will get a new one and see if that fixes it, I would really rather not mess around with replacing the power supply unless I need to.



#4 synergy513

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:08 AM

there are actually two fans blowing out of the back in a standard cabinet configuration. A case fan also known as a  system fan which is usually a 92mm and then there is the power supply fan that is right next to where your power plugs in. if you are getting a system message about a fan, then chances are it is the case fan. easy and cheap to fix. also be sure to check your pins on it, some fans are 3 pin, some are 4 pin. I think nowadays the fans are configured with a 3 pin and a 4 pin.  How is that 6450 treating you?


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#5 CameronKolarik

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 09:22 AM

It's working fine so far, although the only games I have tried it for were League of Legends, World of Tanks (which was a large part of why I bought it in the first place) and Vindictus.

 

Was planning on getting Skyrim and seeing how that would work on it soon but then the fan messed up, so I will have to fix that first apparently.

 

I know the fan is not the PSU fan because the loud noise stopped entirely when I lightly touched the fan blade on the back, and I know its a 3 pin connector, however I am not exactly sure what size it is, I measured it and came out to 3.6 inches, so that would be 92mm correct? I just want to make sure I get the right size fan the first time, thanks.



#6 CameronKolarik

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 09:28 AM

Also, this may seem odd but, would it be possible to use the computer without replacing the fan for a while if I point a regular fan at it? one that plugs into a wall outlet? or would that not provide enough cooling for it?



#7 CameronKolarik

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 11:39 AM

As for the power supply, when I looked it up it said that the radeon 6450 uses very little power, so it should work fine on a 250 watt power supply, the PC has a pentium dual core e5200 2.5ghz processor, a cd/dvd drive, 4 gb ram, and the speakers, keyboard and mouse attached to it. 

 

As far as I know thats all that is running on the thing, do you think that is using too much power for 250 watts?

 

With the graphics card installed the pc ran fine for about 2 or 3 weeks before I had this issue with the fan, and did not notice any other issues before this. 


Edited by CameronKolarik, 23 August 2013 - 11:44 AM.


#8 synergy513

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:38 PM

Yes, a 92mm is the standard size for that case fan. If you decide to pull the fan out and try to use a regular household fan remember, the job of the case fan is to pull hot air OUT of the cabinet. So you would want your household fan blowing AWAY from the cabinet. Try to get it in position as close as possible also. I don't know how effective that would be, i never tried it although i have known of users using it as an extra heat reduction technique.

 

 a 250 watt is a standard Power Supply that usually comes with store bought machines, and it may or may not be enough.but it looks like so far it is treating you well. you will know if it is going out because you will get random power shut downs. there are aftermarket PSUs that aren't too expensive, a nice 430 watt can be had for under $50. I bought  a cheap thermaltake 430w TR2  4 years ago and so far it has been a sweet addition and it has churned through all the extra hardware i have put in since.. but most users like the antecs and corsairs.

 

        a 6450 is the next generation of the 5450. it isn't the most powerful, but as far as system compatibility ,minimum power draw and being able to run a PC signal to the TV over an HDMI cable and being able to run games with lower settings, it usually can do the trick. it probably can run two monitors also. I use a 5550 myself. I had a 210 before that. my next one is going to be an ASUS 6670.

 

        I would  check out this handy app called S I W .  it has a hardware section that includes sensors for monitoring heat inside the cabinet. you can get it on a free download.


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#9 CameronKolarik

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 04:12 PM

Alright, thanks a lot man. I may be able to get a new power supply sometime in a few weeks but for the moment its not an option, would there be any permanent problems that could start happening before the mentioned random power shut downs? I have not had that happen yet so apparently nothing too major has happened.

 

As for the card, like I said it seems to be working fine, seems like it was a great deal for the cost, although I don't think I will ever need to use 2 monitors with it.

 

Would that app include temperatures for the cpu and/or power supply? The graphics card came with a program called Afterburner that already has a way to monitor the gpu temperature, which tends to stay around 41-60 degrees I believe, the 41 is what I see when its idle, goes up a bit when I play some games on it.

 

One big reason I decided on the 6450 was the apparent low power need and because it was about the only graphics card I could find that had a VGA connector, seems most of the other cards only had HDMI and something else, my monitor is rather old so it only has a VGA connector 


Edited by CameronKolarik, 23 August 2013 - 04:15 PM.


#10 rotor123

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 05:53 PM

With that fan being defective, You will keep getting the message when You power on. I would just change it.

 

The Question is what brand of computer is it, HP, Dell?

The reason I ask is that Dells can be picky about the fan being used and usually have a non standard 3 (4) pin connector.

 

Good Luck

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#11 CameronKolarik

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:20 PM

the PC is an HP, and yes I do plan on replacing it, but it will take a few days to arrive so I will post whether that fixes the issue (I'm betting it will) when it does.

 

I really do appreciate the help from this forum  :thumbsup2:



#12 CameronKolarik

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:36 PM

I do have one last question:

 

Would it be okay if I were to run games on the computer with the faulty fan for short periods of time? Like say an hour or two with plenty of time to cool off in between?

 

And if I were to install this S I W program to see the temperatures, what would be the point at which the pc is too hot?

 

So far I have left the pc off this whole time, other than to boot it up to see if the fan error still happened, and a few minutes of actually running the pc to see if it would still boot properly (which it did).


Edited by CameronKolarik, 23 August 2013 - 06:38 PM.


#13 synergy513

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:31 PM

if your 250w is doing fine then i wouldn't spend anything for an upgrade. at the same time, remember that you might see the 250w not putting out enough power sometime in the future (random power shut downs). SIW won't give you the power supply temperature, but should give you alll the others, like hard drive, cabinet temp,, cpu temp etc. there might be other apps that will give you power supply monitoring, i have read about them but can't remember them off-hand. SIW will give you voltage readings on your PSU, but not amperage readings or temperatures.

 

 Yes the VGA connection is slowly dying out , also remember, chances are that you may also have an onboard VGA output. it is a standard VGA jack that you should see on the back of your cabinet. it isn't as sweet as a dedicated gfx card, but will get you by in a pinch. The other jack on your 6450 besides the VGA and the HDMI is a DVI. you can tell if it is convertible to a VGA if it has four pins around the wide pin. that is a DVI-I and you can get a cheap passive adapter to convert it to a VGA output.

 

          link   :

 

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

 

 if you can get SIW and if it works on your machine to read temperatures , the typical shut down heat range is around 90 celsius for CPU and around 106 celsius  (220 F) for gfx card. Most users start seeing a danger zone around 65-75 celsius anywhere.I have seen instances where SIW wasn't compatible and wouldn't provide the info, but i can testify that it works on my xp32 machine. if it isn't giving you the desired result, you can try for HWmonitor to check your temps, it is free also. i haven't seen an instance where HW monitor didn't work. then there is another app called speccy, which i don't recommend because it has been known to clog data pipelines before. it may work for you, but i know it has hung up my PC a few times.  I would use those apps to monitor your temperatures as you are playing games to see just how the malfunctioned case fan is letting the heat accumulate.

 

 that is one more good thing about 6450 also, low heat generation. some of those super-charged gfx cards will hover in the 80c range during normal use.

 

 

 I don't know for certain how the heat will accumulate if you are gaming on your PC without the case fan blowing the heat out of the cabinet. you may be able to get by with using a household fan to get the heat out of there, just try to get it as close to the cabinet as possible. I know this one guy who has been jamming with black ops 2 for days at a time without a case fan, that blew my mind. He was none the wiser. his cpu fan and his gpu fan was doing fine by themselves somehow.

 

 yes, the 92mm 3 pin case fan should be installed at the first oppurtunity!  keep in mind that those fans accumulate dust and it keeps them from spinning the way they should, so periodic cleaning is a good approach. (2x a year maybe)


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#14 CameronKolarik

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:45 PM

Hmm, yes there was another VGA connector on the back of the pc, however when I first installed the graphics card I plugged the monitor into that one, assuming I would need to install the drivers for the new card before I plugged it into the one from the graphics card, however when I started the computer there was no picture at all on the monitor until I plugged it into the connector on the graphics card, so I don't think that would work.

 

Thanks for the info on the temperatures, I will keep that in mind. I think I will try playing games on the pc some, but I will keep a close watch on the temperatures if that S I W works.

 

Unfortunately I won't be able to order  that fan until the 1st, and it wont arrive at the store until probably the 7-10th of next month   :(


Edited by CameronKolarik, 23 August 2013 - 08:46 PM.


#15 TsVk!

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:57 PM

At one time I had a problem with overheating due to intensive CPU use (back in the good old red hot pentium days), but had no choice but to soldier on and finish the job, which would still take weeks. Solution was to take the side of the case off and aim a household fan directly at the mobo. Worked for its purpose and kept the system on its feet...

 

So, it's an effective temporary solution IME.






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