Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

The Gauntlet of Modern Day Overseas Travel


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 yabbadoo

yabbadoo

  • Banned
  • 510 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:02 PM

Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:25 PM

With the World in  turmoil, civil unrest, violent riots, widespread acceptable crime and fanatical anti-Western feeling, especially against Americans and the British, but all Europeans included, do you feel safe when taking a holiday abroad or even going overseas on business ? 

 

Unfortunately to be a European is to be a  target in many parts of our wonderful peaceful  world..


Edited by yabbadoo, 15 August 2013 - 12:43 PM.


BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 myrti

myrti

    Sillyberry


  • Malware Study Hall Admin
  • 33,768 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:At home
  • Local time:02:02 PM

Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:20 PM

I tend to choose my holidays based on which countries are safe, not only generally, but in particular for (single) female travelers. I wouldn't go to india for now, for example.  I wouldn't go to Egypt either right now, for obvious reasons.

But I will be going to Turkey in a week, actually, and I'm quite convinced that I will have an awesome time and enjoy myself there. :)

 

It's difficult to decide long term at the moment where to go and where not to go.. Things can be relatively quiet and then simply explode. You need to follow local politics quite closely to be forwarned. As a matter of fact the holiday in Turkey was booked before the fightings about Gezi park started. We chose not to cancel it, partially also because we were never planning on visiting larger cities or stop in Istanbul.

 

This all being said, anybody who lives in a larger city runs the risk of being beaten or killed on an almost daily basis. Compared to that most regions in these "tormoiled countries" are actually quite safe. I inadvertently happened to be in a city a couple of years ago, when a protest turned violent after a poor kid accidentally got shot by the police. I stayed inside and watched the police and the protestors march the streets from inside and felt quite safe. Talk to the locals, follow their advice and I would think you'll stay safe most of the times. (Not all obviously, but often).

 Again, taking Egypt as an example, the core tourist areas are still relatively quiet and I suspect you could spend a good time there if you were going.

I was actually considering going to Egypt lately, because there's a lot of history I'd like to see there and prices have never been cheaper. I was assuming, however, that the country was settling down and stabilizing, which obviously isn't the case at the moment. :( As things are now, I wouldn't go without a dire need to do so.

 

regards

myrti


is that a bird?  a plane? nooo it's the flying blueberry!

If I have been helping you and haven't replied in 2 days, feel free to shoot me a PM! Please don't send help request via PM, unless I am already helping you. Use the forums!

 

Follow BleepingComputer on: Facebook | Twitter | Google+


#3 yabbadoo

yabbadoo
  • Topic Starter

  • Banned
  • 510 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:02 PM

Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:37 PM

I can only say with sincerity after our Overseas Aid fiasco , thank you Myrti for a really good honest and interesting post.

Yabba


Edited by yabbadoo, 15 August 2013 - 03:09 PM.


#4 Stolen

Stolen

  • Members
  • 669 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Local time:07:02 AM

Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:22 PM

Would I feel safe?  yes.  definitely.  But not in Mexico or Central America.  it's not safe.  however, I think many parts of the Mexican 'Riviera' down south of Cancun and toward the Mayan ruins are still ok. 

 

Myrti, Egypt is really unstable, but wouldn't it be amazing to visit there. I think the U.S. has a website for travel advisories that seems to be reliable, so I would probably follow their advice. I don't know what is going on in India, is there unrest? I know I can just google this, just wanted to ask you.  I have never been outside the US.  I can't imagine what it's like, i know it's quite different.

 

I was showing a friend from Europe a small little town here in Texas, and I proudly pointed out an old stone building, about 200 years old, a little house built by some German immigrants. He was completely unimpressed.  Then he said, "Stolen, I'm from Europe." That kind of hit me in a way I was not expecting. We here in the US seem so new in comparison. 

 

Yabba...living in the UK, how do you feel about visiting EU in general? it's pretty stable and safe over there?



#5 myrti

myrti

    Sillyberry


  • Malware Study Hall Admin
  • 33,768 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:At home
  • Local time:02:02 PM

Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:19 AM

Hi,

I take those travel advisories with a salt of grain, they are often quite alarmist. Any place where you might get mugged at night will get mentioned as potentially unsafe and if you're unaware of how likely this is in your own country, any country may quickly sound dangerous in comparison.
I remember that during the world cup the US put out an advisory saying that the eastern part of Germany was unsafe and should be avoided because of the high abundance of neonazis and skinheads looking for foreigners to beat up. That caused quite an uproar in Germany, obviously, because we do not make a habit out of beating people up. ;) IIRC the advisory was pulled again at some point.
Just out of curiosity, I went over the travel advisory for Germany from the US again and you can still see some items that sound quite alarming:

U.S. citizens should exercise caution when congregating in areas known as expatriate hangouts such as restaurants, bars, and discos frequented by high numbers of resident U.S. citizens and/or U.S. citizen tourists. In addition, hooligans, most often drunken skinheads, have been known to harass or even attack people whom they believe to be foreigners or members of rival groups.

Nonetheless, these demonstrations can attract counter-demonstrations and have the potential to turn violent. Avoid areas around protests and demonstrations and check local media for updates on the situation and traffic advisories.

These statements are true, of course, we're not an ever peaceful nation, but need to be seen for what they are..
In any city the "tourist hot spots" are well visited by pickpockets, thieves and robbers, because tourists tend to cary a lot of money around with them. It's more rewarding to rob them than to rob locals which may only have 20 bucks on them because they have an ATM on every corner. So for me the first sentence is somewhat self-evident.
It is a sad fact that people get harassed because of their skin color or their origins. However, again, I can not say I'm witnissing this more often in Germany than elsewhere. I've seen it happen in France, Switzerland, Spain and also in the US. It's sad, it's stupid but it wouldn't be a reason to disregard a country for a visit.
Regarding violent protest: If you decide to go to one of the hot spots where facists and communists try to attack each other and 2000 police men are present to keep them apart, you will likely be hit by a waterhose from the police at some point. Pepperspray and such are also not unheard of. But the last time someone died in a riot or demonstration in Germany was in the 1980ies and it was more of a car-accident on the side of the demonstration. Those were truly different times though, if things were still the same as they were in the 80ies, I would recommend staying away from protests. >.>
Also that this one got a mention cracked me up:

Contrary to popular belief, there are posted speed limits on large stretches of the highway, or Autobahn, mostly when traveling through urban areas or when the road has many curves.

:thumbsup:

When I went to Peru I read a lot of travel advisories and tips. It was my first solo-voyage, it was my first time in south america, it was my first long trip and the more I read, the more scared I got. The day before leaving part of me was considering dropping everything and canceling the trip because there's terrorism, sexual harrassment, theft and what not in Peru. I didn't, mostly because I didn't want to face the ridicule of my friends.
Once I got there, I got a better idea of what each of these warnings meant. Yes, there is theft and robbery and some of it is a lot more brutal than what we have here in Germany, but it's not a daily occurrence. You have to be very unlucky to be robbed and you can get unlucky anywhere. Yes there is terrorism, but you really need to go out of your way and search for it. Chances that you're running into it accidentally are very slim, as the terrorists are hidden high away in the uninhabited parts of the Andes. When it comes to sexual harrassment, I must say I have no idea what they were refering too, I had no issues whatsoever when it came to this. I did, however, follow the advisory to cover up my skin (it was freezing and even snowed at one point.. covering up was necessary either way) and had my hair in a bun (thing of habit really.. I rarely wear it in any other form). I talked to other people saying that they had had guys approaching them and harrassing them in the major cities.
All in all, I must say, I was blown away by the friendliness and care I got from random strangers in Peru and that I had an awesome time without ever feeling unsafe. It was one of the best times in my life. (No, I'm not paid by the Peruvian tourism board, I swear. ;p)

Bottom line: Read the advisories, prepare for the worst, but don't let them scare you. Millions of tourists return home unharmed from their trip every day.

@india
There has been lots of attention on group rapes in india lately after a poor girl was raped to death on a public bus. Shortly thereafter a middle-aged swiss couple was abducted in a parc and the woman raped repeatedly as well. Rape is the fastest growing crime in India.
I can handle being mugged and robbed and even threatened. Those will normally end in the loss of some wordly possessions and a bruised ego. I do not want to have to handle rape.

Edited by myrti, 16 August 2013 - 05:21 AM.

is that a bird?  a plane? nooo it's the flying blueberry!

If I have been helping you and haven't replied in 2 days, feel free to shoot me a PM! Please don't send help request via PM, unless I am already helping you. Use the forums!

 

Follow BleepingComputer on: Facebook | Twitter | Google+


#6 yabbadoo

yabbadoo
  • Topic Starter

  • Banned
  • 510 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:02 PM

Posted 16 August 2013 - 07:08 AM

@ Myrti

 

Another excellent post, which in fact gives the reader a good insight into foreign travel.

 

General  crime has always been present in all  countries, with some being a higher risk factor than others. In todays world where discipline is a thing of the past, life has no value and punishment is totally incapable of deterring criminals with many countries having abolished the death penalty, crime levels have shot through the ceiling all over the world.

 

Even Russia is rotting in a crime bonanza. Oddly enough, it looks like China is beyond  doubt the safest country on Earth for Westerners to visit The Chinese do not take any nonsense from criminals of all categories  and the dispensation of justice is swift.

 

Nevertheless, there are many areas which pose considerably less risk than others. In raising this thread, my primary reason was the astronomic rise in anti-Western hatred  that has occurred over the past  30 years or so. It is almost all due  to the Muslim fraternity, where terrorist fanatics have sworn a religious war - Jihad - against anything Western, especially American.

 

We have " All Muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim". So the  countries I had in mind were - The entire Far East, all of Asia, the Middle East, North Africa and the whole continent of Africa. Even major Western embassy`s are not  safe from attack.

 

In any of these places, to be Western is to set yourself up as a likely target for  terrorist attack. Having a nice  drink in an Indonesian  bar for instance sounds a lovely vacation pleasure, but the next minute there could be a very large BANG and you are either dead or mutilated for life. Your  ticket to eternity or mutilation is just a single cell phone call away.

 

Failing bombs and bullets, hostage taking is an extremely popular sport nowadays with all these  criminal groups and scumbags. It is not a very pleasant experience.

 

These are the threats I particularly had in mind. The world of today is no comparison with the relatively comfortable and safe world of yesterday. The moment you even enter an air terminal, you are at immediate risk. Corroboration ? Just read the past 20 years of news headlines.


Edited by yabbadoo, 16 August 2013 - 07:36 AM.


#7 Animal

Animal

    Bleepin' Animinion


  • Site Admin
  • 34,752 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where You Least Expect Me To Be
  • Local time:05:02 AM

Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:10 PM

I can't help but wonder if this era of 24 hour all news all the time 'reporting' of crimes skews the numbers of incidents. Bad news sells and news pundits are in the business of selling news and advertising revenue. Why not over-hype the facts and make it more salacious and terrifying. Boost that bottom line.

I don't feel any less safe today than I did several years ago. I just think the various governments have colluded with news agencies to heighten awareness of fear inducing stories. Then run them on a 24 hour cycle so it's firmly implanted.

I'm not saying stuff doesn't happen. The bottom falling out of so many economies has created more opportunities to use crime as a means for personal revenue/survival. I'm just saying it's quite plausible that our over saturation to negative news may skew the perception it's far worse than it actually is.

The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for some people it is a complete substitute for life.
Andrew Brown (1938-1994)


A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that." Douglas Adams (1952-2001)


"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination circles the world." Albert Einstein (1879-1955)


Follow BleepingComputer on: Facebook | Twitter | Google+

#8 yabbadoo

yabbadoo
  • Topic Starter

  • Banned
  • 510 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:02 PM

Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:21 PM

International terrorism has its roots embedded in the aftermath of WW2, where countries were formed, divided and obtained independence. All this caused  separatist groups to form and there we have civil wars and various groups fighting for supremacy. I have counted about two dozen terrorist groups that have been formed since WW2, of which half are still active in varying degrees today.

 

Almost all of the presently active terrorist groups are highly organised on a military basis, have all the modern technological and electronic  facilities that we have and sophisticated weapons that match our own standards. They are no longer a rag-taggle band of thugs, they are genuine well trained "freedom fighters" for  want of a respectable name.

 

American, Russian and British intervention in certain areas, particularly Islamic countries caused a flare-up in anti-Western organised terrorist activity, which escalated on an enormous scale to the Global level which it is today. Their targets are indiscriminate. Military, civilian and collateral are all fair game and the venue can be anywhere in the world.

 

Nobody would ever have dreamt that 3 ordinary US Internal flights on 9/11 could have resulted in a major catastrophe with over 3,000 killed and twice as many wounded, plus of course the total loss of the Twin Towers and contents, including  trapped staff.

 

It is not imagination, it is real fact and many thousands of civilians and military have paid with their lives, not to mention the Billions of dollars worth of damage done, in almost every  major country in the world

 

It may be sheer bravado to ignore this threat and to go Gung Ho, head down into the middle of all this constant atmosphere of high risk and mayhem, but it is nothing more than being rather stupid and irresponsible.

 

The question is whether you feel safe travelling around the world in today's environment of regular terrorist activity of mass murder. Me - a definite NO I do not, but life cannot stop for it, so we have to take our chances and hope  for the best.


Edited by yabbadoo, 16 August 2013 - 03:47 PM.


#9 myrti

myrti

    Sillyberry


  • Malware Study Hall Admin
  • 33,768 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:At home
  • Local time:02:02 PM

Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:32 AM

Hi,

 

I would think international terrorism goes back much further than that, to colonialism. Ever since the european forces moved out and occupied large parts of the world, there have been violent protests both in the countries that are occupied as well as the countries that were occupying them. Think for example of the boxer rising in China around the 1900s. World War 1 actually started because of a terrorist attack killing the prince of austria in sarajevo. But at end of it we see the same reason for terrorism, colonialisation. Just that we identify different periods of it as the source of the terrorism.

I would agree with animal that increased media coverage makes the world appear more dangerous than previously, without it actually being the case. If you look back at the last decade of the 20th century, there was a lot more civil war, hunger and famine going on at the time. Compared to that the world is downright peaceful right now.

 

In the 1980ies there were also wide spread internal terrorist attacks in Germany (RAF), France (basque and corsika independence movement), Spain (basque country) and Ireland/UK (catholic-protestant conflict), for example. There was no interest or desire to report on attacks elsewhere, because you had your hands full with what was happening at home. It's easy to forget now, but the "peace" as such in Europe is very recent and one of the reasons that we get so much more info about attacks elsewhere nowadays is that our own countries are safe most of the times.

Actually there still are the occasional attacks, in particular by the ETA in spain, but they make sure to call ahead of time so that only material damage occurs. There are also the local anarchistic groups here in Germany that blow up train rails or power-houses. You can be sure that on the days where the train rails get blown up here, there's little news about what terrorist groups might do in far away countries. People are more preoccupied with what happened here. So it's not like we're terror free here and in particular with the anarchistic groups, I wouldn't count on it being an "injury free" terror either.

 

I wouldn't necessarily go to Iraq or Afghanistan right now, but that's more because they are still active war zones. I wouldn't go to active war zones without a real need for it. In most of the countries in the middle east and north africa I would feel safe, except for the sexual harrassment that I'd expect to get there. The likelihood of being caught in a terror attack there is not much higher than being caught in one here.


is that a bird?  a plane? nooo it's the flying blueberry!

If I have been helping you and haven't replied in 2 days, feel free to shoot me a PM! Please don't send help request via PM, unless I am already helping you. Use the forums!

 

Follow BleepingComputer on: Facebook | Twitter | Google+





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users