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Windows SP2/Norton live update


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#1 Moodman

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 05:06 PM

I got the SP2 update on cd but it will not install for me. extracts the files and then nothing. Also, and this is probably related, my Norton Live update has not been able to update in over a month now....no error mssg., just doesn't do it's thing. Could not find any thing from Microsoft or Norton to help me figure this one out. I have Norton Internet Secrurity Proffessional and XP. Was told to come here for most excellent help with what I was told is a major problem. Last valid Norton Live update was 8-4-04. Thanks!
~Mood
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#2 jayt6995

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 06:40 PM

Make sure that your norton fire wall is disabled, the SP2 fire wall may be having a conflict with your norton firewall

#3 tos226

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 11:26 PM

Make sure that your norton fire wall is disabled, the SP2 fire wall may be having a conflict with your norton firewall

I beg to difer with you big time! Windows new firewall isn't too good.
Microsoft definitely recommends using ONE firewall, never two after SP2 goes in.
Zone Alarm, Norton, McAffee say the same thing. Too much conflict.
I read WOW (Woody's Office Watch -that's their old name, can't recall the new one off hand). They are very good and they see lots of holes in the SP2 firewall and tell you to shut it off permanently and use the outstanding ones (their favourite is ZA, but all 3 are good).

It would be nice to see the opinions of people who run this site also, 'cause they know every itty bitty aspect of the security issues - see posts and answers under the other forum categories and you'll see what I mean.

#4 phawgg

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 12:51 AM

I agree, Moodman, that is a problem, but not one that should permanently make your mood mad. :thumbsup: I've sorta stumbled into some ideas along the way experimenting with XP SP2, and also with having Symantec Security stuff. What I'll do is add a couple links to this reply at the bottom.

SP2 is big, and modifys the existing OS in a big way, all at once. It does not always take into account what has been done to the OS before it is asked to install. Norton (Symantec System Security) is also big, in what it does to your Operating System by bundling all kinds of programs together, that really do wrap themselves up tightly into your OS. The CleanSweep, the NortonProtected RecycleBin, the WinDoc, the DiskDoc...the Anti-virus & the list goes on.

When you mix that program up with the OS system restore feature & the old firewall/new firewall + much more that SP2 has in it's folders, ya' gotta mess. OK? :flowers: So, take a deep breath & realize that the big companies usually don't talk our language and don't usually say "we bleeped up". You have the CD for SP2. That's good. If you have the CD for

Norton Internet Secruity Proffessional

then you can still have the best of both worlds, probably. Please read on...

The system restore works by making restore files. The recycle bin doesn't get rid of files, it just nips a name off of 'em so they can be over-written. The "protected files" make more files & the winDoc changes your Registry for you in the way it does. The registry refers to all kinds of files and the fix that winDoc does... well it's not always right. The anti-virus plays a big part by monitoring a bunch of those files & it is not always "current" but it's able to check & change files, too. Thats how things go wrong.

How-to-fix-it. IMO, the easiest way is to reload the original system and start over. Unfortunately, that isn't always the best way... only because you might not know how to do it right, you might not have the right disks or more importantly, you might not be able to save what is on your PC that you want before you do it.
  • Windows XP (home or pro) CD (or is it an upgrade to XP or is it XP that came installed when you bought the computer?)


  • Norton Internet Security CD (or is it on your HD as a download with online modifications from Norton site?)


  • Windows SP2 CD


  • do you have a CD-RW? if you do...


  • Your CD's of the files/folders/downloads/programs etc. you want to keep and use again when the PC works right again


  • because you want the Updates for Windows & your Security.
All the things above make little important differences. You can answer those questions as a reply. Also... read on, please

It might be as simple as this:
  • Disable system restore.


  • Uninstall Norton Internet Security Professional.


  • Use your CD-RW to burn copies of everything you want/need just in case. (see what happened to me below)


  • load SP2 CD and try again.


  • If it still doesn't work, then continue uninstalling the programs you know you can re-install, either by CD or downloading.


  • continue to try the SP2, and when it does install it will turn your system restore back on automatically. It will turn it's new firewall on automatically. Just leave it on and let it tell you that you need anti-virus protection & more updates. Let it update you. (There is a new after-the-SP2 CD-update out now.)


  • then reload everything you took off, including the Norton.*
* or leave Norton off, and in it's place use other programs that we recommend here that are free and work with SP2. That will require more answers, plus more questions & thoughts from you.

If you don't want to uninstall everything or have problems with the "big" picture, then just uninstall Norton as completely as it can be and try the SP2/updates. Then see if The Norton will install back on SP2 with no problems. I did lose some files when I first loaded SP2 which was a download at the time I did it (big one taking half a day on dialup) and had no problems using the CD except some relatively minor annoyances I'm still working out. Then:

Microsoft definitely recommends using ONE firewall, never two after SP2 goes in.

tos226 is right, so if Norton goes back on after SP2, simply disable the new SP2 firewall and carry on. jayt6995 is right, too.

That's my opinion.
more of 'em
less of 'em :trumpet:

Edited by phawgg, 18 November 2004 - 12:58 AM.

patiently patrolling, plenty of persisant pests n' problems ...

#5 Moodman

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 01:24 AM

How-to-fix-it. IMO, the easiest way is to reload the original system and start over. Unfortunately, that isn't always the best way... only because you might not know how to do it right, you might not have the right disks or more importantly, you might not be able to save what is on your PC that you want before you do it.



Windows XP (home or pro) CD (or is it an upgrade to XP or is it XP that came installed when you bought the computer?)[B]<<Came on lap top>>


Norton Internet Security CD (or is it on your HD as a download with online modifications from Norton site?)<<came on lap top as Norton Security and I upgraded online to pro after like....um, 90 days?


Windows SP2 CD<<<<<I have!>>>>


do you have a CD-RW? if you do...<<Yes>>


Your CD's of the files/folders/downloads/programs etc. you want to keep and use again when the PC works right again


because you want the Updates for Windows & your Security.



All the things above make little important differences. You can answer those questions as a reply. Also... read on, please

It might be as simple as this:



Disable system restore.<<Where?>>


Uninstall Norton Internet Security Professional.<<<How, thought about this much!!!!>


Use your CD-RW to burn copies of everything you want/need just in case. (see what happened to me below)<<<<OK>>>


load SP2 CD and try again.<<<I have numerous times>>>


If it still doesn't work, then continue uninstalling the programs you know you can re-install, either by CD or downloading.<<<good tip but only in a bind eh?>>


continue to try the SP2, and when it does install it will turn your system restore back on automatically. It will turn it's new firewall on automatically. Just leave it on and let it tell you that you need anti-virus protection & more updates. Let it update you. (There is a new after-the-SP2 CD-update out now.)<<<when and if it does we'll take it from there>>>


then reload everything you took off, including the Norton.*<<<understood>>>

Thank you....hope for more info there.

#6 phawgg

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 02:03 AM

We are making progress, Moodman. Please let me consider your answers carefully and build a "best way to go step-by-step". That'll take me some time & I'm presently wrapped up in a couple other issues. Say 24 hours? I'm encouraged by your answers, see light at the end of the tunnel, but want to proceed with some trial & error quick tests on my own & smooth out some potentially rough edges B4 I advise you in detail, OK?

Edited by phawgg, 18 November 2004 - 02:04 AM.

patiently patrolling, plenty of persisant pests n' problems ...

#7 Moodman

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 02:16 AM

Cool, please be patient with me too.....more a case of time management than being able to follow directions. Very nice to meet you!
~Mood
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#8 phawgg

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 02:30 AM

I like your avatar... do you play guitar?

Heres the thing.. I want to check some details regarding Norton, as you have installed by google-searchin' their site. That company offers several versions of product and it's hard to tell what may havebeen installed on your laptop and what the upgrade value is. I am certain you can get comparable protection (if not superior) for free. I can easily provide that info. That being the case, it might be as simple as dumpin' that program, and proceeding. I want to help you safeguard both the OS, which you can not easily replace (reload from CD), and your data. In GB's about how much data do you have on your hard drive? About how many programs? How many of those programs can you re-install from CD and how many came bundled with the laptop... which comes down to:
  • Name of computer
  • Model number
  • any published stats about it
  • how old, etc.
Then I can "visualize" best route to success easier. :thumbsup:

Pleased to meet you as well. In many ways, "been there, done that, now I want to move forward from there". :flowers:
patiently patrolling, plenty of persisant pests n' problems ...

#9 Moodman

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 02:56 AM

I'll get that info for you in the morning after I get home. Thank you for the encouragement....It's a Compaq so you know.
Have a good sleep.
~Mood
:thumbsup:
P.S. Have dug on this avatar for about 4 years now.......

#10 Moodman

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 02:57 AM

And yes, I play guitar.

#11 phawgg

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 03:04 AM

Me too, let's get some sleep. Tomorrow's a new day. :thumbsup:
patiently patrolling, plenty of persisant pests n' problems ...

#12 Moodman

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 03:13 AM

"early morning fog with a chance of showers in your area..."
LOL ya must live near me!
Good night there and thank you again.

#13 phawgg

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 04:54 PM

Hey, Moodman, I put this together since it'll likely help as you prepare to modify your computer so you can get the Windows Updates. More info when I have time. The recommendations included below the Norton Product stuff are those I've learned here & through trial & error... I use them myself. Free. I'm still looking into the Compaq company's routine regarding the OS pre-installed, so we can keep that in mind when considering what can be done facing problems of a fundamental nature like inability to load a service pack. The step by step is yet to come, just do some reading, thinkin' and within a couple days you can implement some changes that should end with a success, OK? Let me know of any details you think will help. I'm workin' down the list from above posts.

"I upgraded online to pro". I used a search engine, Google to the SoftwareHomeWebSite for Information, like I always do, to find answers to problems involving a product. Free or otherwise.
1. Norton Internet Security 2004 Professional. Protects you and your business from online threats. (that's it)
But all the information is about this other one. Hmmm. Is your upgrade to this I think? What difference does it make, I think?
2. Norton Internet Security
Symantec's Norton Internet Security 2005 Provides essential protection from viruses, hackers, and privacy threats. Norton AntiVirus is the world’s most trusted antivirus solution.* Norton Personal Firewall keeps personal data in and hackers out. And Norton Privacy Control, Norton AntiSpam, and Norton Parental Control safeguard you and your family from other common online risks.

OK. You upgraded a few months ago. Probably the 2004 Pro version. Information on it is gone. You have to rely on the New Product Information and subtract the "New!" to determine what you have, sort of a subtle goad to buy more. I personally don't like this particular approach to marketing, but read on...

You can Amazon-for-info...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the bundle, probably, that came installed on your laptop.
Norton Internet Security 2004 (AntiVirus, Firewall, AntiSpam, Privacy, Parental Control)
Symantec
Platform: Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows Me, Windows XP
Availability: usually dispatched within 1 to 2 working days
25 New & Used from £11.99
CD-ROM - September 26, 2003 (it's really over a year old.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That means gray-out stuff you may/may not have, I think.
NEW! Outbreak Alert notifies you about high-level Internet threats.
Well, this is a constant bad news reminder feature, which I consider unneccessary. Heres why. With all but unusual cases, you should be protected. If not, then the only answer would be...free updates to do so, or buy more. Kinda like having an alarm system on your home that will announce: "Intruders found using clever putty knife techniqu in upper-story windows of business in Mozambique. -=Better check your upper-story windows=- (or)-= At Symantec we check for you=- (or)-= For better protection, get our RoofTarpKit, hangs down etc. blah, blah, blah=-" Who needs it?


downloads new protection updates automatically. OK... how often? when I'm using, will it interfere? how much memory resource to keep it goin' constantly? can I turn it off? will that cause a problem? easy to manually update? any "additional" information about me/my computer being fed to the company other than just what's needed to update? will it turn my PC for me? will it demand via popup that I go online when it wants to? will it compromise other downloads?

Norton AntiVirus™
Internet Worm Protection stops certain damaging Internet worms at the point of entry. (limited)
Automatically removes viruses, worms, and Trojan horses. (It should, but which ones?)
Blocks viruses in instant message attachments. (It should)
Scans and cleans incoming and outgoing email messages, including compressed files. (same as above, it should)
Detects spyware and certain non-virus threats such as adware and keystroke logging programs. (it shouldn't unless it is an anti-spyware/malware program, too.)

Norton™ Personal Firewall
NEW! Automatically turns the firewall back on after a set period of time if you need to turn it off temporarily. (potentially a problem IMO)
Hides your PC on the Internet so that hackers can’t find it. (see Shield'sUp)
Intrusion prevention technology automatically blocks suspicious incoming traffic. (I can't make a determination? other than shut it off if I don't need to suspect it)
Network Detector automatically switches security setups when you move your laptop from network to network. (you need this?)

Norton™ Privacy Control
NEW! Confidential information blocking now lets you send personal data to sites you trust while protecting you from sending it to sites you don’t.
Prevents confidential information from being sent out without your knowledge in email, instant messages, Microsoft® Office attachments, and Web forms.
(both these features are standard operational modes of all good Firewalls working with Internet Settings IE, aren't they?)

Norton AntiSpam™
NEW! Filters email coming to Yahoo!® Mail accounts. (Yahoo does this. I use no Norton, Yahoo Norton-auto-filters for me. hmmm)
NEW! Helps detect and filter fraudulent and explicit email. (limited)
NEW! Automatically synchronizes its Allowed List with your POP3 email address books. (ya' mean ad-block)

Filters unwanted email messages in any POP3-compliant email program.
Integrates with Microsoft® Outlook®, Microsoft Outlook Express, and Eudora® for instant, automatic filtering of junk mail.
Blocks access to Web sites and newsgroups that you consider unsuitable for your children. (So does your OS)

$99.95 *Twelve months of protection updates included with purchase of Norton Personal Firewall 2005; annual subscriptions available for subsequent updates. Lemme guess... they offered you 40% off? sucha deal. :flowers:

All the above boils down to: Company has done what in the past? Details... any User reports? ...product satisfaction? Support... user forums?
company advice to me if I need it? ...advice/turnaround time... by email?
In the interest of Consumerism, product comparisions do require some research. Product support includes:
techsupport &
spamwatch
There exists to the best of my knowledge, no user forum. This company Sells, sorta supports & keeps you wanting more, frequently.

I'd look for alternatives. I've found them. Back to your questions about system restore:
I recommend that you disable & re-enable your System Restore to set a new restore point. This insures that there are no infected files found in a restore point left over from what we have just cleaned. [In your case Moodman we'll think a little more about the role being played by this feature on your PC] Additional information & instructions are here. If you do not set that new point, be sure you do not restore your system any further back than the calendar date [WHENEVER YOUR PROBLEMS BEGAN]. Some other steps to be taken are:

1. Use secure Internet Explorer settings
  • Open IE and check tools-->internet options-->security-->click internet icon-->(default is medium). Click custom and check that these settings are:
  • Download unsigned ActiveX controls - prompt
  • Initialize and script ActiveX controls not marked as safe - disable
  • Installation of desktop items - prompt
  • Launching programs and files in IFRAME - prompt
  • Navigate sub-frames across different domains - prompt
2. Use AntiVirus Software & Update Frequently
  • An excellent free program is AVG, if you need an option. This program can be set to automatically scan & either auto-update or
    you may choose to do that yourself. Virus definition updates with this program occur frequently, which is very good.
3. Use a Firewall
  • Excellent free programs available include:
  • Sygate
  • Kerio
  • (others are also available)
  • Choose one (if you do not already use a firewall). Keep your Firewall up & monitor it's configurations
  • (fully understanding it's operation may require some thought & a little practice, but it help greatly to have it installed and functioning)
4. Use Microsoft Windows Updates Frequently
  • SP2 is the most recent Service Pack available.
  • It provides all the updates issued since Windows XP was first released, including SP1 and all updates added to it
  • More updates have already been to it, so to remain current in regards to security issues in particular, you should consider installing it.
  • Information is more readily available now that involves any possible conflicts with your present software.
  • You can read up on that information here.
5. Use Spybot S&D & Update
  • Install and use this program with its TeaTimer option.
  • This will provide realtime spyware & hijacker protection on your computer alongside your virus protection.
  • You should also scan your computer with this program on a regular basis, just as you would an antivirus software.
  • Check for updates when you do. A tutorial is available here.
7. Use SpywareBlaster & Update
  • Install and use this program
  • Adding a large list of sites/programs into your Browser settings, it protects you from running or downloading known malicious programs.
  • You may customize it if required to accomodate your individual needs, and updates are also frequently issued with new definitions added
  • Make it a habit to run and update on a regular basis.
7. Use Ad-Aware & Update
  • Install, configure and use this program with the others.
  • It is very well thought of in it's effectiveness, it complements the actions of the others.
  • It provides for additional plug-in specialty tools as well as an upgrade if you choose them.
  • Updates are frequent, so I suggest that you do both that and run the program regularly.
8. Use an alternative Browser Frequently
  • Consider using Firefox as an alternative to IE for fundamental security reasons.
  • You can have both easily. Doing so will provide you with several benefits and options.
  • Other alternative browsers are also available at no charge
  • They do not have inherent vulnerabilities to the extent that IE does.
  • They are not subject to the same attention by malware creators as IE, which is much more commonly used.
All of these recommendations will provide a valuable service to you, and no conflicts exist when operating them together on your PC [winXP]
Please enact them for your own sake at that of the Internet itself.

9. Use BleepingComputer Tutorials & Resources Frequently
  • While cleaning your PC important tutorials were offered to explain what was being done.
  • Urgency to accomplish the task may have compromised your full understanding of what all was involved.
  • There is always room for improvement when using a personal computer.
  • Resources are available here and improving all the time. Some that deal with these recommendations include:
Tutorials available for more in-depth considerations.
Switching from Internet Explorer to Firefox
Simple and easy ways to keep your computer safe and secure on the Internet
Using Spybot - Search & Destroy to remove Spyware from Your Computer
Using Ad-Aware SE to remove Spyware & Hijackers from Your Computer
Using SpywareBlaster to protect your computer from Spyware, Hijackers, and Malware
Guide to Windows XP Recovery Features
Steps to take when connecting a new computer to the Internet

Basically, there are more tutorials written about things that may apply to your situation... please do some checkin' here. Note questions you may have about how the information applies to you

Thanks :thumbsup:

Edited by phawgg, 18 November 2004 - 05:02 PM.

patiently patrolling, plenty of persisant pests n' problems ...

#14 Moodman

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 05:23 PM

Name of computer<<Compaq Presario >>
Model number<<X1370US>>
any published stats about it<<Intel Pentium M Processor 1.4 GHz, Intel Mobil technology w/ Centrino, PRO/Wireless 2200BG(802.11b/g), 40 GB Hard, 512 MB Memory...etc....>>
how old, etc.<<5-23-04>>

I still need to go thru what you just wrote and try to fully comprehend. And yes, The Norton came with the system and I did upgrade to Pro......that's about the time my problems started but Norton help was of no use.

Thank you again......I will be back.
~Mood

#15 Moodman

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 06:32 PM

OK, got SP2 installed but Norton Live update will still not do it's thing, infact, it froze my computer at one point. That's where I currently stand. Norton Pro upgrade is in effect but urgent mssg to update and I can't. No SP2 udates came up thru windows either. That's where it stands. Tips?
~Mood
:thumbsup:




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