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Time for a Second American Revolution ?


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#1 Chris Cosgrove

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:45 PM

I am not a citizen of the USA, nor – by my locator – do I live there, but I have followed, and contributed in a minor way, to some of the discussions on this forum which have involved contributors expressing opinions on various facets of the USA as it is today. But BC is not a solely American forum as I understand it, it is very much an International affair. So here goes.

 

Why do the citizens of the USA continue the existence of a form of government in which very few have confidence ?

 

I am not going to pretend that the UK is perfect – it isn’t, but there is a wider confidence in the various forms of UK government than Gallup Poll is quoting to be found in the USA.

 

“Only a mere 10 per cent of Americans have "a great deal" or "quite a lot" of confidence in the US Congress, a new Gallup poll has found.”

 

Gallup claim 95 +/- 3% confidence in their figures. From this it would appear that few Americans have overly much faith in their elected representatives. Apparently, confidence peaked in 1973 at 42%, and has been trending downwards since.

Is it not about time that situation got overhauled ?  And given the difficulty of changing in-built biases in existing systems, is it not time for a second American Revolution ?

 

Source : 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/13/confidence_in_congress_at_historical_low/

 

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#2 groovicus

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:07 AM

The real question is why, given those staggeringly bad ratings, people keep electing the same officials? If people are too stupid to figure that part out, then any other action is a bit pointless.

In 2012, while people expressed a 90% dissaproval rate for Congress, 91% of officials were re-elected.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/156662/Congress-Approval-Ties-Time-Low.aspx
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/todd-phillips/congress-election-results_b_2114947.html

Please tell me how a revolution is going to fix that?

#3 MissPlaced

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:38 AM

Hi Chris,

I have to agree with groovicus here, blood shed isn't the answer......

OUR Citzen's need to wake up and smell the coffee!!

Then and only then will effective changes take place...

RESPECTFULLY

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#4 82_bleepingirl

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 03:34 PM

What we now have is a two party system in name only.. Repubs and the Dems are both the Liberal party. The only way we can get them out is with blood shed and that is why they have been chipping away at our gun rights for decades.  They zim shooting is going to bring in marshal law and the guns will be taken.. I'll leave the rest to your imaginations.



#5 Bezukhov

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:07 PM

There is one odd disconnect between what we think of our Government in toto; and what we think of those who we actually voted for. Yes 15% is the approval rating of Congress in general. 46% is the approval rating we give to our own representative, that is, the one we voted for. So you see, Groovicus, its the other guy's fault. (See my sig.)
 
...and seriously 82, I am curious what, or who, do you want to replace it with?


Edited by Bezukhov, 14 June 2013 - 07:12 PM.

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#6 Orange Blossom

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 03:59 PM

Also, most elections don't even have a 50% turn out at the polls, so the elected officials are really elected by a minority.

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#7 Steiny

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 03:08 AM

hi all,

 

 

In my country, the Netherlands, gunlaws have been in place since 1919. By origin the idea behind the law was "to protect the government". 

As later there was talk of "a revolution" , the description was changed to "take weapons out of the hands of revolutionalists" ... but ultimately still protecting the government.

Now it is described as "to lessen the harmfull effects of guns in society" 

 

So yes, i can think of a reason or two why the politicians are scared of guns over in US of A.    Personally:  i love the US and it's (normal) people, i dont like people that lie and deceive for a living.

 

What i've read about  the elections is that they are so screwed up that basically the majority of voters gets voted out as the rank of the votee goes higher up the chain.. i'm not talking about the president here, he's just a ragdol, it's congress that should be replaced with all new ppl.  There's the real power.  Big companies have theyre arms so far up the congressmen's private caverns that there's just no room for a good way to run the government....     i bet if you'd pay any politician under 40 grand a year, the conversations would be much less political, and much more troubleresolvent....  yet the first law to be voted on would be the deathpenalty for those congressmen/politicians who take bribes in any way, shape or form.  Any good household would pay off theyre debt, if any, first.   Why shouldn't your government and mine?

 

 

 

but then again.. this is my opinion.... and opinions are like a**holes.. everybody's got one..

 

 

thanks for reading, i enjoyed yours!

 

 

regards,

 

Steiny



#8 HydroLar

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 04:26 PM

Come on guys, get a grip here...

Polls can be made to say whatever the poller wishes simply by polling those people that only have a certain viewpoint. Polls are not to be trusted.

Do people dislike authority which is governmental control in this case? Of course, it's human nature. Is the US government perfect? Not by a long shot so should we have a revolution? Why? Just what do you have in mind to replace what's currently there?

Sure there is injustice here and there just like in any government but there is also a huge infrastructure established to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves. Would you like to knock this down too? And while you're at it let's take away all forms of healthcare. Granted it could be a whole lot better but any change needs to happen slowly and legally.

As for the latest gun law changes don't get me started...


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#9 yabbadoo

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:30 PM

I am unfortunately an English citizen, having suffered the progressive destruction of my country, heritage, traditions, national identity, proud birthright and social collapse  which has been prevalent since WW2, perpetrated with enthusiasm by successive British Governments.

 

Our political system is also a two man band with a third playing a flute. I believe that no elected British Government since WW2 has had more than 35% of the electoral vote at the best estimate. If any country wishes to use a democratic system as a model for their own Government - KEEP WELL AWAY FROM BRITAIN, it is  political and shameful shambles.

 

The primary criterion for any elected Government is to look after the welfare of the people, look after the health of the country, aim to win and place people and country first over all else.

The exact opposite of the historic track record of any British Government to date.

 

We are not a Democracy, we are a 5 year Dictatorship and certainly are not free. If you break wind in a lift in this country, you will be prosecuted for anti-social behavior. Smoking a cigarette within 10 miles of a  public place means the Tower of London at a minimum.

 

I say all this because in today's world the United States of America is by far the most democratic example of civilised freedom existing on the Planet. OK, the people have moans and groans, but don't we all ? It is human nature to moan whatever the situation. Some people would go bananas if they won $1 million on the lottery one week if last week's win was $2 million.

 

One thing is certain, the American people are astoundingly patriotic and when against the ropes and backs to the wall, their loyalty to their country is total.

 

Two party system ? Yes, it is pathetic to yo-yo from one to the other every 5 years, but it is better than a ONE party system and certainly better than having a collective representative rabble, where nothing gets done.

 

I say leave America out of being criticised by foreigners. The American people know best about America. I am sure that foreign critics have more than enough material to grind over in their own countries.

 

Long live America.  Just keep doing what you do best and maintain that shining example of democratic freedom you all enjoy as a target for others to emulate.


Edited by yabbadoo, 11 July 2013 - 04:49 PM.


#10 plonkeroo

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:25 PM

The USA (God bless all who sail in her) has only been in existence for just over 200 years and in that time it has seemingly managed to alienate most of the world. Unfortunate.

- Of course needless to say I'm really talking about the military/big business conglomeration not the general public.
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#11 yabbadoo

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:26 PM

@ Plonker

 

It is ironic but true what you say. But all this anti-American antagonism only developed after WW2 when America came of age and became undisputed world leader in military strength and as the dominant economic power. It also  coincided with world-wide independence acquisition by a vast number of anti-Western nations.

 

The alienation of the Arab nations against America  started after WW2 when America propped up Israel militarily and economically at the disastrous expense of the Palestinian people. And the fuse was lit. Then of course we had the Cold War where America shouldered arms against anything Communist and sent their military into any country where Communists were posing a threat.

 

None of that endeared America to the Middle east, Asia or Africa. So now we have nearly two thirds of the world hating anything American with the Muslim nation in the forefront.

 

And all this Global hatred of America when the same countries are consistently bailed out each year with Billions of dollars and millions of tons of food in Aid, not to mention being given colossal military Aid, often to both antagonists at the same time e.g Egypt and Israel.

 

All I can say is that at the cost of countless thousands of American lives. Billions in collateral damage and Trillions on monetary Aid, the American Government and people must have the hide of a Rhino to keep funding the world, policing it, dying for it and all at the American taxpayers expense and a mammoth national debt of $16 Trillion bucks.

 

We must all be thankful to these over generous Americans for their sacrifices and for staving off WW3 for the past 70 years. Without American power, the Westernised nations would have been long gone either by economic ruin or military conflict.

 

I say it again - LONG LIVE AMERICA.

 



#12 sikntired

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:07 AM

First and foremost I am an American who believes in all the principles of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness that was envisioned by our forefathers and put forth in The Constitution. I also believe in extending a helping hand to those who cannot help themselves; defend those who cannot defend themselves and in essence project goodwill.

We have our share of successes and failures and most assuredly America is now facing some of the most daunting issues both at home and abroad that are unprecedented in it's history. And yes, we contributed to both.

There are major domestic issues that need to be resolved to restore tranquility; ie., Budget Deficit, Immigration, Social Security just to name a few. However this cannot be accomplished because we have a "Do Nothing Congress" that continues to play the game of " one-upsmanship ". We have a President who has no credentials other than being a gifted speaker, yet he was re-elected ?

Then we come to the threat from abroad. Countries using cyberspace to infiltrate and steal technology and probing for weaknesses in our infrastructure. And, of course, a major concern that emanates from the Middle East. Muslim religious fanatics who espouse the killing of all Americans and the downfall of Democracy. Remember 9/11 ?

I think back to the time of when Pearl Harbor was attacked and the dilemma that ensued. We had prior information but failed to act. I can also harken to the utterance of the architect of the infamous plan soon after wherein Admiral Yamamoto reportedly said " I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant ".

We need not be complacement. We must remain vigilant and utilize all resources to ensure that America is strong both at home and abroad. We cannot sit idly by. If that means stepping on the toes of some in order to ensure the security of many, so be it !

I proudly fought for my country and will continue to do so. However, I yearn for the time when this sleeping giant will awaken.



#13 K6567

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:56 PM

In an attempt to respond to Mr. Cosgrove's question without all the silly diatribe, the answer is yes - - sort of. A strong reason why there is such a lack of confidence in our elected officials is purely an economic disconnect. You see it cost the average congressional house rep $1.7 million and a senate rep $10 million to run for a position that pays an annual salary of $174,000. Thus our leaders are forced to spend much of their time in office fundraising and pandering to those interest that provide them with funds for the next campaign often at the expense of good governance. Think of it this way - You get a job that pays $174,000 but are told that every two years you'll need to have a million dollars if you wish to keep that job. The average persons response would be "that's economic suicide." But there is that small minority that say, "I really like this job and by hook or by crook I'm gonna raise the money to keep it." 'Thought'- How would you view that person? Would you be certain of their integrity, honesty, intelligence, agenda, alliances, etc. etc.?  In all honesty it does take money to get one's name and ideas in front of the public in such a way that makes one electable, but we surely could use some revolutionary ideas on how we can better finance the finances of our election campaigns that allows more common people / average people access, and less influence for special interest and high rollers; and that's not only applicable for this country, but for Great Britain too. God bless the U.S.A. and I hope my diatribe didn't sound too much like a diatribe.    



#14 yabbadoo

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:41 AM

The  concept of this thread is of  course simply contemporary frivolity and essentially nonsense.

 

Revolutions are for regimes that get into so much serious trouble between the Rulers and the population that violence and revolt takes place. There is nothing wrong with America, it is not a banana Republic with a volatile irresponsible flotsam as a population. America is the world leader in almost every civilised, democratic, economic, military strength and national power attributes you can possibly consider.

 

If any fault does exist with this great nation, it is simply the disease which most  civilised countries contract through sheer natural selection. All democratic nations evolve a political system of 2 major parties, with occasionally a 3rd  entering the arena. It is not a forced situation, it is simply caused by attritional voting over time.

 

So from then on we get a "tick-tock" 5 year cycle of  elections, where the inevitable result is a win for one party after another and so it goes on ad infinitum. There is never any change, just the same old crap being returned to power with a new meaningless and worthless manifesto of aims and promises that are always broken to pieces in no time at all.

 

The bright spot in all this is a third party. But the brainless Lemmings who vote like programmed  robots in the elections never give a  new boy a chance, they always revert to their old faithful and vote back in power parties that have a deplorable history of previous 5 year disasters to outsrtip living memory.

 

So why moan ? It is YOUR fault, not the Governments, YOU voted them in and YOU must accept the blame and consequences.

 

The only way to break this cycle of rubbish rule is to vote for a third party and defeat the old two party ingrained system. Until you do that, you must suffer the tick-tock of crap after crap and back again.

 

Forget the revolution, get your brains in order and vote for change, a POLITICAL revolution  - give the new boys a chance. You will never know if you don`t try and if you don`t try - then shut up, grin and bear it. After all, it is a self inflicted wound.

 

And please don't blame the President, he is just some guy that the political party have selected as leader, he does not get a single American vote, Presidents never have had a population vote, they only assume a Presidential Role by virtue of YOU  voting in their party.


Edited by yabbadoo, 19 July 2013 - 07:56 AM.


#15 myrti

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 08:21 AM

Hi,

I've seen you say a number of times now that the US tops in civic/democratic/economic attributes. Could you name some? To my knowledge most of these are not topped by the US.

Also: The president is elected directly in the US. You do vote for the guy, not the party. Now, mostly you vote for the candidates that are abcked by large parties, but there have been indepedent candidates for the presidential position. For example the lead singer of "Lamb of God", Randy Blythe, announced his candidacy in 2012. Joe Schriner is running as indepedent candidate for the 4th time in a row.
regards
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Edited by myrti, 19 July 2013 - 08:26 AM.

is that a bird?  a plane? nooo it's the flying blueberry!

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