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Just for the Record:

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#1 sumguy#1


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Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:38 AM

If you can convince...anyone...that you know of a Microsoft.com download site...that produces a Win 7 .iso...I will lobby for your efforts to abide by forum rules.


R. Start lobbying then. MSDN, is that not run by Microsoft [MS]?, and offer ISO downloads there?


Has nothing to do with abiding by forum rules. Like I should know every single rule in every forum? To me it has all to do with coming here an getting an OS upgrade on my system. Seems to me you and Bloopie are making a big ado over a moot situation, as I can't download the ISO anyway. If he had PM'ed me before jumping the gun and posting the threat to close the threads because I mentioned the word ISO...attack!, attack! I would have told him that I couldn't download the ISO. So lets stop acting like control freaks and cops, and focus on the thread content. At least that's my intent, whats yours?




The Digital River links are NOT Microsoft links which are uncompromised and have been compromised for years now. 


R. And your telling me I'm going off topic, yet your the one talking about it and trying to convince the readers of this topic to my detriment. I never said or inferred Digital River [DR] links are MS links? If you have issues with DR's or MS's policies, then maybe you should direct your concerns to them, not to me in the middle of my thread, muddying the waters with irrelevant muck. When a simple PM would have resolved any concerns about ISO's.




Digital River is one of many designated agents for Microsfot.  In this case, they were/are the designated agent for Student downloads of Win 7 which were available at an earlier time.  Those links were compromised years ago...that does nothing to change the nature of anyone downloading from such links...no matter what the website is.


R. Those links were compromised? Not sure what you mean with that? But you feel the DR ISO download links should be banished from the Internet? If DR is a designated agent of and have some sort of legal agreement with MS, then whatever they do together, is between those two companies. Not between me, you, Bloopie, or anyone else.


Send an e-mail to MS or DR and tell them your concerns, then tell us what the say, if anything?


So if you are a student, you get a student discount. But if you are not a student then those ISO downloads are illegal and not available for activation at full retail price? And if I had a product key, it wouldn't work with the ISO? To me or most people I would think its their choice where they get the OS from, on a disk or ISO, in a retail store or online. The bottom line is they have to pay one way or the other to activate the product, or it stops working after whatever the trial period is. The money goes in MS pockets, so I don't think MS is that concerned about the DR ISO downloads. If they were, I'm sure they would have instigated legal proceedings long ago against DR.




If Microsoft com authorizes free downloads of Win 7 (or any other O/S) in the same manner that we all download other programs...or if there is a direct link to the Microsoft Store which reflects free downloads...I then recant and say those downloads would be legal.


R. I believe MS currently offers free trial downloads for the Win 8 Enterprise edition. So if someone mentioned downloaded an Win 8 ISO from MSDN or DR, then what you believe its illegal/legal to do so? I believe MS offered free trial Win 7 in its early stages of development.




Unless that happens....the existing policy at BC regarding DR downloads...remains in effect.  Pure and simple.


R. The BC link does mention ISO's, but it doesn't mention or specify DR as being a pirated download site. That BC link is a bit unclear as to what is actually being said in that link. I read that link as you can use ISO's for personal use, but not download and sell illegal ISO downloads. I don't even know what a WinPE or BartPE means. Actually the first time I've heard of those words was in that BC link.


To the average non-technical reader that BC ISO link language is unclear and needs to be updated and clarified, so ordinary folks can understand what the message is there. It appears to be double speak to me. So are the ISO downloads at DR any different from the ISO downloads on MSDN? I don't see any difference. You still got to purchase a product key somewhere/somehow to activate.


The bottom line is, all of the above and any other posts by you or Bloopie, are totally moot anyway, as I can't download the ISO irregardless of where I get it. So all the smoke and mirrors here, is just that, Pure and Simple.




This policy statement, from the owner of this site, was made back in the era when XP was the primary O/S and everyone had downloads of XP Recovery Console disks available to the public.  Although the Digita Rivers fiasco has eclipsed any concerns about XP at this time...the same basic principles apply, regardless of Windows O/S.


R. Sounds like you should take this fiasco up with the owner of the site and not bash forum members for attempting in  good faith to simply install an OS? If the BC/ISO link was made way back then - - then maybe an update and a amendment to that link is in order. If staff or moderators are on this site daily, then they should be more familiar with the rules. And if they feel there might be an issue a newer member is not aware of, then a simple polite PM reminder would suffice. As opposed to a impolite threat manner of, "I'll close out your threads/posts!".




Recommending ISOs of Windows Recovery Discs or pre-made ISOs of WinPE-BartPE - http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic382841.html


On that note...you have strayed far from the stated subject matter of your topic...


R. I definitely object to that bogus statement, fer shure! You should be saying that to Bloopie, not me, he started the fire. My only good faith intention was to do what I thought was best to upgrade my computer. And I thought downloading an ISO and installing same with a USB drive was the easiest way to go. When I asked Bloopie for recommendations on types of systems to install? His response was that's up to you. So I suggest an OS option [ISO], and now both of you want to chop my nuts off...WTF! My sole intent here was to upgrade my computer. You made the above statements and then locked the thread without giving me an opportunity to reply...sounds rather self-serving to me.


Bloopie could have voiced his ISO concerns to me in a PM, w/o the threat of canceling either of my threads. For attempting to install/upgrade an OS seems a bit overbearing to me?




and some of us have tried to repond both to your topic and what seems to have become your main concern. 


R. Totally wrong here! I don't believe you have responded to any of my threads that I recall? Other than this ISO B.S. A few others responded to my other threads. But mostly Bloopie. Your only response has been about the ISO's, which has been your main topic, and then you locked the other thread. Seems to me to be an abuse of your admin position. My main concern is to upgrade my system, Pure and Simple.




It seems that this discussion can go no farther...with that in mind, this topic is now closed. Lois


R. It seems to me this discussion and topic should have never been started in the first place. As it was a totally moot issue before it even got started by Bloopie, and then you, I rest my case.






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#2 Grinler


    Lawrence Abrams

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:35 AM

Hi sumguy,

I apologize if you think we are policing the site in too harsh of a manner. It is not our intention and I encourage any member to contact me or the mod directly via PM if you feel that we are censoring or policing too much.

First, back to your original topic that was closed, it is a good move going from Vista to 7. You will find that your computing experience will be much better on Windows 7 machine. There are many articles out there explaining how to perform an upgrade from Windows vista to Windows 7 via the upgrade media. You should be able to boot up with the CD and just perform a clean install. There are some people who ran into activation issues and others who have not. Ultimately, though, its doable and should save you some $$$ doing it that way as this is a legitimate upgrade from Vista and your not trying to cheat the system.

Now to the main point of this topic, I wanted to further elaborate on our stance on the Digital River links. This topic has been debated and hashed so many times, but unfortunately there is no clear and definitive answer from Microsoft. I have spoken to Microsoft Legal, my numerous Microsoft MVP leads, and many MS employees and have never been given a concrete answer as to whether or not the DR links are legit. From some MS employees I am told they are fine to use, from some I hear its illegal to obtain that way and are meant to be used only by purchasers of Windows from Digital River, and from others I have heard that MS knows about it but is turning a blind eye.

I personally do not know Ronnie, but being an MVP or a Community Moderator at answers does not mean you know the right answer to this. It is just one more person making their own interpretation of Microsoft's silence regarding these ISOs.

I can factually tell you, though, that there are no official Windows ISO images publicly available for download from a Microsoft site unless you have a subscription to Technet, MSDN, or are downloading a Windows 8 Trial. You mention msdn numerous times, but am not sure what you are referring to? I would think if these ISO images were legally and officially available, Microsoft would make them available to the public directly from microsoft.com where they have complete control. The lack of this option and the fact that many MVPs, companies, and organizations have requested numerous times to make ISO images available shows, imho, that Microsoft does not want to officially offer them.

With that said, I personally think Microsoft is well aware of these easily available Windows ISOs at Digital River and chooses not to do anything. Does that mean that BC should encourage people to use them because of that? That I do not have a good answer on as of yet. This may change in the near future, but until I do we will not recommend them in order to protect our site and our members from a large corporation who has a lot of legal muscle.

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