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PC as a door stop


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#1 SGasan116

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:39 AM

Hello!

 

First it's started like a software problem, so I went to malware removers forum:

 

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/487627/computer-keep-rebooting/

 

Now things became much worse. I decided to put a new thermal compound on CPU, and after that it suddenly stops from booting up at all. It starts a cooling fan on the CPU for a second, then shut down, then starts again, then shut down... it's like loops of power on and of, and only Zalman fan on the top of the CPU was working - trying to start and immediately shuts down. Tried move a memory sticks, between DIMMs, but nothning worked.

I reseated CMOS jumpers, moved cap from 1-2 to 2-3 and back - still the same. Tried to repeat and lost a jumpers cap inside of PC. Then I took out CMOS battery, flip it and put back (this is where, I guess, I was wrong) waited for a few minutes and flip it again and put it back.

After that I have no powering up at all. Just expensive doorstep. Dead PC, only green light on the mobo. Tried to measure voltages on PSU with DMM, but without load it didn't show anything, except some 3,5V on 24-pin output.  

Any ideas how to return PC to life, or at least bring to booting? How to test PSU w/o load?

 

I need to figure out what I should replace first: CPU, PSU or mobo, and order it A.S.A.P.

 

Thank to everybody in advance and sorry for mistakes.

English is my second language


Edited by SGasan116, 06 May 2013 - 11:40 AM.


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#2 SGasan116

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:29 PM

My configuration:

 

I have PC with Q9650, 4GB Corsar memory, PNY nVidia 1.8GB videocard, Ultima X3 PSU, Windows 7 Ultimate, F-Secure 2011.

 

http://speccy.piriform.com/results/HxPo1hd3CNDEstIoHPdlKVz



#3 MrBruce1959

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 05:07 PM

Hello and welcome to Bleeping Computer.

 

I am not clear as to what you meant by your saying you flipped the battery. I am assuming you flipped the CR2032 battery over so the narrow side was facing up, this is also known as the negative (-) side of the battery. If this is what you did, it gave you no benefit what so ever.

 

The CLR_CMOS jumper is the only thing that should have been relocated to the 2-3 pins then returned back to pins 1-2.

 

What your problem sounds like to me is that your PSU is the actual culprit here.

 

There are PSU testers out there on the market, however since you have a digital multimeter handy, you can test the controller that is built into the PSU by following the test procedure I am providing you with below. If the PSU comes to life, the controller is good, however, that does not mean that one of the rails in your PSU  could be bad or has failed and is no longer providing 12 Volts to the power harness that connects to your mother board. While you have this jumper in place, you can test the wires at the connector with your DMM. Orange is 3.3+ Volts  Red is 5.0+ Volts and Yellow is 12 + Volts  I'll provide a link at the bottom of this post to a website that shows all the wires and what voltage is carried on them.

 

 

 

WARNING: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN DIRECTIONS THAT INCLUDE WORKING WITH LIVE VOLTAGES OR PARTS INSIDE A COMPUTER'S POWER SUPPLY THAT CAN CAUSE SERIOUS ELECTRICAL SHOCK OR SERIOUS BURNS, A POWER SUPPLY CONTAINS VARY LARGE ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS THAT ACT JUST LIKE A BATTERY OR VOLTAGE STORAGE DEVICE, THOSE AND OTHER ELECTRONICS FOUND INSIDE A POWER SUPPLY CAN STORE DANGEROUS AMOUNTS OF ELECTRICITY HOURS OR EVEN WEEKS AFTER ALL ELECTRICAL CURRENT HAS BEEN DISCONNECTED FROM THEM! PLEASE USE EXTREME CAUTION AND COMMON SENSE WHEN WORKING WITH POWER SUPPLIES OR AC VOLTAGES!

 


 

The purpose of this procedure is to bypass the motherboard to test a ATX PSU. Some manufacturers Like Dell have used some non ATX PSUs which have a different pinout for the 20/4 pin connector, please confirm that your PSU is a ATX type before using this procedure.

Caution:
This procedure will involve working with live 12VDC electrical potentials which if handled improperly may lead to electrical shock. Proper precautions should also be taken to prevent electrostatic discharges (ESDs) within the case of the computer. For safety purposes please follow the instructions step by step.

First, shutdown your computer. Then unplug the power cable going into your computer.

Press and hold the front panel power switch for several seconds. This will ensure that the Capacitors on the mainboard have been discharged.

Once you have opened the case, touch the metal of the case to discharge any static electricity.

The connector of the PSU which connects to the motherboard is readily recognizable by the number of wires in the bundle. To disconnect it you will need to press on the plastic clip to disengage it and then pull the connector up and away from the motherboard. Please take notice of the location of the locking tab and the notch on the socket of the motherboard, this will only connect one way as it is keyed. This wire bundle will have a memory of the way it has been installed and will want to bend back that direction, you may have to play around with it to find a position that the connector will stay in the same position while you run the test.

main24index.jpg
www.playtool.com

From the top left to right the pins are 13-24, the bottom from left to right are 1-12.

Please notice that there are PSUs with 24 pin and 20 pin connectors, the location of the green wire in the 24 pin connector is #16, and the green wire in the 20 pin connector is #14. If you look at the connector with socket side facing you and the clip on the top the number one pin will be on the bottom left corner. This makes the pin out for the 24 pin connector from left to right 13-24 on top, and 1-12 on the bottom. The pin out for the 20 pin connector from left to right is 11-20 on top , and 1-10 on the bottom. If you look at the connectors you notice that these are sockets that fit over the pins on the motherboard where the PSU cable attaches, this is where you will place the jumper. For a jumper you will need a piece of solid wire about the size of a paper clip (20-22 awg), preferably a wire with insulation. It will need to be large enough to fit firmly into the socket so that it will not need to be held in place while testing. You are at risk of electrical shock if you are holding the jumper when you power up the PSU. Insert one end of the jumper into the socket of the Green wire, and insert the other end into the socket of any Black wire.

Once the jumper is in place plug the cord back in. If the PSU is working properly the case fans, optical drives, hdds, and LEDs should power up and remain on. I would suggest that you not leave this connected any longer than is necessary for safety purposes.

To reconnect the 20/4 pin connector unplug the power cord, remove the jumper, and reconnect the connector. Take a moment at this time to make sure that nothing has been dislodged inside the case.

Now here is a link to what wires do what in the power connectors:

 

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html#atxmain24

 

 

 

 

Bruce.


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#4 SGasan116

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:35 AM

"Insert one end of the jumper into the socket of the Green wire, and insert the other end into the socket of any Black wire."

 

What pin numbers for Black wire (because all my wires are black)?



#5 MrBruce1959

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 11:44 AM

All the wires to your connector--that is shown above--are all black ones?

 

Perhaps you are asking me which black wire because you have more than one? If so, any black wire will be fine as they all go to the same circuit on the motherboard and the same goes for the PSU. 

 

What model number and manufacturer do you see printed on the label that is on the PSU?

 

Bruce.


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#6 SGasan116

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:09 PM

All my cables fom PSU are black, including 24 pin.  Manufacturer is ULTRA X-3 850 wt, about 3 years old.

Which pin numbers I should connect?



#7 MrBruce1959

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:47 PM

Look at Post number 3 above for the picture, the locking clip should be facing up while the plug end should be facing you. In this configuration, the location of the green wire in the 24 pin connector is #16, so If you look at the connector with socket side facing you and the clip on the top the number one pin will be on the bottom left corner and pin number 13 is right above it, so count four holes over and that is pin number 16.

 

Just so I am not confusing you here, pin #16 is four holes over from the left top, top is the part of the connector that has the clip on it. Use a piece of wire with rubber coating on it that is about 4 inches long and make sure to expose the copper wire on each end of the wire. stick this wire into hole number 16 and hole number 15, hole 15 is ground and it should be to the left of hole 16.

 

Once you have this jumper in place, and plug the AC power cord into the PSU, the cooling fans should jump to life. Mind you Pin 16 is simply the wire that tells your system to power up when it becomes active with current.

 

As long as Pin 16 is at PC ground, the power supply will be active, any drives that are still hooked up to the power supply should also jump to life as if you powered up your computer system. Only your motherboard will NOT come to life since you do not have the power supply connected to it.

 

While this jumper is in place, you can use the pictures on the web page I linked you to above as a reference to which hole does what and thus you can use your DMM meter to see which holes show which voltages. Use Pin 15 as your PC ground and switch the red probe between the other holes and compare voltages.

 

Bruce.


Edited by MrBruce1959, 09 May 2013 - 10:51 PM.

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#8 SGasan116

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:42 AM

Thank you!

 

I'll do all tests it after work, this evening.



#9 MrBruce1959

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:01 PM

:thumbup2:


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#10 SGasan116

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 11:40 AM

O'K I did all measurements on 24 pin plug (in jumper mode - 15&16 pins connected, and fans in PSU and HD were working) and measured all voltages regarding "ground".

 

I connected black probe to ground and red probe to other pins. All voltages are in the limits of ATX cable

24 pin table. Only slightly different, like cinstead 3.3v it's 3.53v and instead 12v it's 12.05v. Only "minus" sign in front of every value bothering me (except in front of "-12v" it's "+12"). Suppose to be another way around, right? 



#11 MrBruce1959

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:31 PM

Only "minus" sign in front of every value bothering me (except in front of "-12v" it's "+12"). Suppose to be another way around, right? 

I am not clear as to what you meant by this statement above. Can you explain what you meant by that? Are you saying the pin listed as -12 Volts is +12 Volts?

 

Also, voltages in a computer have plus or minus values. What I mean by that is if a voltage is rated at 12.0 Volts DC, there is an allowance of a slightly lower or higher value. This is often written as +/- 5%. It means the value can be 5% lower or higher and still be within the required specifications. The 12.0 Volt rating can go as low as 11.7 or as high as 12.5 and still be within the ideal rating.

 

It appears that your PSU has passed the power up test, now we have to figure out what the problem is.

 

Looking back, you stated that you added new thermal compound to your CPU and all your hardware problems started with constant recycled restarts. Okay let's try looking at that CPU and make sure that the heat sink is not making contact with something it shouldn't be touching. Recheck that area and see if everything looks okay. 

 

On another possible consideration is, is it possible you caused your motherboard to slip slightly so that one of the stand-offs is making contact with a circuit trace on the motherboard and causing a short to ground?

 

Check to make sure that your motherboard is aligned properly so that those motherboard to case stand offs are not causing a short. This can happen and go unnoticed when work is done to the CPU and heat sink.

 

Bruce.


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#12 SGasan116

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 04:35 PM

Sorry, mixed black and red inputs for probes in DMM. Now it's fine 3.3=3.57, 12=12.1 and two pins 12=12.5v

 

PC became dead after I flushed CMOS battery. I checked everything - mobo, CPU etc. everything firmly in place.

Going' to reapply a new thermal compound today.


Edited by SGasan116, 11 May 2013 - 04:36 PM.


#13 MrBruce1959

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 05:23 PM

I am curious if your CMOS battery may be dead or close to it. A dead CMOS battery can cause issues with a motherboard's booting up properly. 

 

You stated you flipped the CMOS battery---moved jumper from 1-2 to 2-3 and moved back to 1-2--etc.

 

As I try to visualize you doing this, I see you performing an action that would most definitely short out your CMOS battery to the point of totally discharging it. If this vision matches what you did, I would say that your CMOS battery is the culprit. It is no longer capable of supplying a back up voltage to your CMOS chip to store it's system programmed memory.

 

Please try replacing your CR2032 battery and try starting up your system. Please make sure the Clear CMOS jumper is in it's default position so you do not short out the new battery. 

 

Bruce.

 

Edit: added battery to text.


Edited by MrBruce1959, 11 May 2013 - 05:24 PM.

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#14 SGasan116

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 05:38 PM

I did measured a battery - it's fine, 3.5 volts.



#15 MrBruce1959

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:45 PM

I am currently reading through your former topic, the one you listed a link to in post #1 to see what the history is behind this system.

 

I am not finished reading through it as of yet, but I do see one issue that was over-looked by the person who was helping you. I am hoping as I read on through that lengthy topic, that I see the proper correct method of installing your OS offered by your helper.

 

Hang in there until I am finished reading and can draw a satisfactory conclusion.

 

Bruce.


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