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Could North Korea's actions be the beginning of "the end?"


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#1 MrBruce1959

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:19 AM

Hello this is meant to be an open discussion, please do not make any hateful remarks.
 
Over the centuries mankind has tried to predict "the end" of mankind's existence on Earth as we know it. Many have predicted a biblical phenomenon that "God" would be the cause of mankind's fate on Earth as stated in the New Testament "The Revelation to John" Chapter 21.
 
We often overlook the fact that mankind has the capability to destroying ourselves without the help of any religious intervention.
 
Last year several predictions were made about the exact time and date that this "fate" would take place. The Mayan's were believed to be the ones to successfully predict "The End"  as December 21 2012--They were of course not correct if that was a prediction. 
 
What amuses me is the fact that we are so into using numbers or scriptures to predict something that can not be predicted that we overlook the realistic possibilities.
 
I am composing this to bring two realistic possibilities into the picture. One such possibility is an object floating in outer space that comes into contact with the planet Earth. We have been told that none such objects exist nor can happen within the next 10 years, however recently we have had an encounter with two rather large objects that entered the Earth's atmosphere.  
 
One such object made an impact with land in Russia just three weeks ago and caused damage. Why was no one warned about this object being close to the Earth? What happens if the next impact is much more severe?
 
On another note of importance is the possibility of a "Nuclear War". A nuclear threat is very much a real possibility and that possibility continues to increase day by day. This possibility seems to be the furthest from anyones mind, but it is a serious reality and it will happen.
 
At this present moment-- whether anyone one wants to accept it and accept it will happen-- North Korea is threatening to strike US bases in South Korea and it can not be played off as a joke and that it's impossible for North Korea to use a Nuclear warhead.
 
We as citizens have no clue what the North Korean's have and you can't expect our Government to tell us even if they know for sure. The fact is North Korea has been known for running suicide missions ever since the Korean war. Then on top of that, you have a leader who is willing to put all his cards on the table to win a victory at the cost of its people's lives.
 
This article from MSN.com backs up  a claim I have been stating would happen as far back as 2012 when Kim Yong Un took over as leader.
 
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/29/17513218-north-korea-puts-rockets-on-standby-as-us-official-warns-regime-is-no-paper-tiger?lite
 
He claims his country is "No Paper Tiger" and the threat against the US includes Nuclear type weapons. Nuclear weapons can have a very serious environmental impact on the entire world, even if the impact is in the vicinity of South Korea. We also can not with exact knowledge be sure that one such weapon can not reach US soil--and who really wants to find out?  
 
We are not dealing with a Government that fears self destruction, we are dealing with a Government that will at all costs be labeled a Government that would rather die than be pushed around by another Government's threats. 
 
How do we resolve this issue? Should we be concerned? Does the threat of a nuclear war seem to be inevitable? What would you do if this threat was played out and becomes a reality?
 
Your observations, concerns, projections and input are welcomed.
 
Please be civil with your replies.
 
Bruce.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 29 March 2013 - 03:48 PM.

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#2 yabbadoo

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:37 PM

Bruce,

 

A topical description of what is going on at present, but the issue is far too involved internationally and on a personal opinion level to give it any serious consideration.

 

The bottom line is that we have to live with massive nuclear weapons arsenals forever. The big guys are the threat, not the little guys. North Korea are so irrelevant in the context of international military power that their current behaviour is simply like a small boy throwing a tantrum because he cannot get what he wants.

 

In isolation, Kim Jong-un`s frenzied behaviour is no more than a joke. Whether  they care or not about self sacrifice is irrelevant, North Korea could be wiped off the surface of the Planet well within 5 minutes by just a single nuclear submarine armed with 24 Trident megaton multi-missiles, cruising casually in the China Sea.

 

What matters is whether China and Russia get involved, nobody else is a problem and even these two huge countries are no match against the USA. America has the most devastating and highly technological arsenal on Earth, there is nobody else who can even approach matching it. The US firepower is enough to destroy the entire Planet several times over.

 

My advice ? Forget all this Apocalypse Now nonsense, leave it to Hollywood  and simply get on with enjoying life. Do not become paranoid about things we have no control over and which are extremely improbable. WW3 will never happen.

 

Life is too short to worry about extinction. If it happens, it happens. You will not know anything about it, vapourisation will only take a few picoseconds, absolutely painless.



#3 MrBruce1959

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:08 PM

@ yabbadoo the treat is very much a strong possibility.

First this article http://news.msn.com/world/how-far-can-north-korean-missiles-reach they have a missile that can reach up to 6,200 miles from North Korea which easily reaches the west coast of the US.

If the USA was to detonate a nuclear device in North Korea as a means of revenge, many innocent people and ally counties close to the impact zone will also suffer. Nuclear warheads are not the same as what we delivered to Japan during World War II. So the possibility of our retaliating may have a negative impact from the nations that depend on us for safety and security. Should we kill those innocent people along with our enemies? How would the nations impacted feel?

If the west coast of the U.S. was impacted many people would die and many people would suffer. I do not mean this as hype or a means to stir up a panic. I merely am curious as to what can be done to prevent such a "Apocalypse Now" situation from happening?

Also statements like this "In isolation, Kim Jong-un`s frenzied behaviour is no more than a joke" is just what would piss him off enough to not give a darn and shoot the first nuclear missile just to prove he is not a joke.

Now do I personally believe they have a nuclear missile already? They've been doing nuclear testing below ground out of site of our satellites for several years now, so how can we say they don't have a capable warhead in the waiting?

Bruce.

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#4 yabbadoo

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:38 AM

@ Mr.Bruce - post No. 3

 

 

My dear Bruce,

 

Whilst all you say is perfectly true in a world of paranoia, I have tried my level best to bring some common sense into this piffling little issue, but obviously failed miserably.

 

If this little oriental  nutball Kimbo-what's his name, is jumping around in an uncontrolled frenzy, who cares ? The guy and his puny country of robot peasants are of no consequence. Like I said, him and his mighty mouse regime could be vapourised in a few seconds and if they wish to be martyrs, then have  nice day..

 

North Korea is irrelevant, a piffling tiny piece of useless real estate coming a mere 99th place in the worlds country size list and most of that is mountains. If Kimbo starts a war, who cares ? One or two big bangs and they are all gone to their Communist heaven in the sky..Military manpower no longer matter a toot, numbers went out when the Hydrogen bomb came in.

 

Innocent people getting hurt ? Countless millions of them do in wars, an unfortunate part of the game. Read your history, more civilians die in wars than the  military. Anyhow, a few well targeted Nukes on North Korea will not affect any other country, perhaps a mild radioactive fall out, but nothing big. Do not forget that modern day technology is so advanced that a missile can be launched from a distance of 6,000 miles and hit the target within  few metres accuracy. 

 

What I am sick and tired of is people getting paranoid. Look on the bright side - if you have to go, you have to go and a nuclear strike is the lucky card, you will not feel a thing. Because like I said, vapourisation only takes a few picoseconds and Bingo ! Eternal peace,. easier than having a tooth out.

 

Just get on with life and stop worrying about things beyond your control. Never forget that human life has an expiry date and it is all too short. If every educated and intelligent person worried about all the worlds collection of bugle blowing, drum banging nutters, the stocks of Valium would run out in hours.

 

Why America should bother about North or South Korea at all is beyond my comprehension. The place is 6,500 miles away from the US, no threat whatsoever, no use whatsoever, except for flooding the worlds markets with cheap electronic and other goods.

 

America lost 35,000 dead and 92,000 wounded in Korea - 50,000 dead and 153,000 wounded in Vietnam. Both wars cost Trillions of US dollars. In Vietnam the US lost the war - every single life and dollar was wasted.

 

Does the US nation wish to perpetuate this massive sacrifice all over again for absolutely nothing ? I hope not.

Vietnam became all Communist and life goes on - what is wrong with all Korea becoming Communist ? Absolutely nothing - let the Northies have it all, it is not worth another single American life or dollar, or a single extra word here either.

 

PLEASE forget North Korea`s nuclear weapons, they would not even get the chance to light the touch paper before Armageddon hits them.


Edited by yabbadoo, 30 March 2013 - 10:41 AM.


#5 Orange Blossom

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:58 PM

To state that people, human beings, are of no consequence bothers me.  No matter who people are, whether we agree with them or not, whether we like them or not, each person matters.  Everybody is a son or daughter, mother or father.

 

Can I stop a nuclear war?  Strictly speaking, no.  But perhaps we can, and not just nuclear war but any war.  How?  By acting, living, and speaking in ways that bring harmony and togetherness rather than alienation.

 

Every day, every decision, check to see if we are contributing to alienation or to togetherness, wholeness.  Because, in the long-run, war is caused by and contributes to alienation.

 

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#6 Naught McNoone

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:13 PM

I don't think that Kim Yong Un is the real threat. He is too young and inexperienced.

His rants and raves are more for the ears of the people of North Korea, than actual threats.

He has to be seen as a strong leader, who is willing to do what it takes, to run his country.

His position depends entirely on support from the old guard, left by his father and grandfather.

 

When the US Navy end their annual training in the region, and all the ships go back to their home ports, Kim Yong Un will announce to his people that the US backed down, and took his threat seriously.

 

His prestige will have gone up, and he will have appeared to be the leader of choice for his nation.

 

It is interesting to note that China plans to participate in next years exersize. How will Yong Un spin that one?

 

The real danger is that one or more of the many generals that are pulling strings in the background may decide that he has nothing left to loose. The result could be that Kim Yong Un may get pushed too far.

 

 

Does anyone remember the reaction the Soviets had over Ronald Reagan? They were never sure if he was joking or serious when he let slip a few off the cuff remarks.

 

"My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you I just signed legislation which outlaws Russia forever. The bombing begins in five minutes." (Said during a radio microphone test, 1984)

 

Cheers!

 

Naught


Edited by Naught McNoone, 02 April 2013 - 01:14 PM.


#7 yabbadoo

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 11:59 AM

I said it all in my posts 2 & 4 and see no reason to add any trimmings.

 

Human life is cheap commodity and in terms of an enemy - expendable. However it may hurt the dear humanitarians amongst us with their gentle platitudes,  it is a cruel fact of life, born out by historic millennia, that to survive you must kill and in these modern times there are no nice rules of combat. It is "anything goes" in order to win. War is not a game of cricket.

 

A good, strong Leader down to the ordinary dedicated soldier does not consider the enemy as "human life", but simply as a legitimate target to be destroyed. Hard to some I know, but necessary to win. Conflicts are not won by compassion and kindness.

 

If any WW3  ever raises its ugly head, then it will be nuclear, biological and nerve gas that will win it and the US has a huge arsenal. The West would have no alternative to combat the enormous manpower advantage that the  Eastern nations can muster.



#8 Chris Cosgrove

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:53 PM

Yabbadoo,

 

I would agree with you that the US has the largest and most effective arsenal, including nuclear weapons in the world, but having a weapon is not the same as having the willingness to use it. Is it possible that the North Koreans might be more willing to pull the trigger ?

 

Certainly if they did, their survival prospects might well be slim, but as the old saying goes - 'Blessed is he who gets his blow in first !'

 

Chris Cosgrove



#9 MrBruce1959

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:39 PM

This says it all. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/03/17580610-north-korea-warns-its-military-allowed-to-wage-nuke-strikes-against-us?lite.

 

It is a reality, he's even willing to kill his own people just to prove he is a martyr to the rest of the world.

 

Do I take his threats seriously? Yes, I do believe he is willing to detenate a nuclear device, whether small or large, the fall out will be worst than the actual explosion.

 

Do we want this? Again, what can be done to prevent this?

 

Should we just simply call his bluff and risk the possiblity of a post nuclear life style?

 

Has anyone ever seen the TV movie "The day after"?

 

Could you live like the movie portrays we did after a nuclear war with Russia?

 

Bruce.


Edited by MrBruce1959, 03 April 2013 - 07:42 PM.

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#10 yabbadoo

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:51 PM

@ Chris Cosgrove post 8

 

 

Hello Chris,

 

Of course all the comments like you have made are the sensible wishes of ordinary people. I also feel the same, but am not willing to ruin my life being worried about some nutter in a bean-size mountainous wilderness of Asia.

 

I could not care or give a fig about North Korea. I have already stated that any nuclear missile launched by North Korea would mean a massive retaliation by the US, which would wipe that little pig-sty off the face of the Planet.

 

Whatever the capability of the North Korean nuclear weapon program, it is akin to comparing a sparkler to a megaton bomb.

 

Never underestimate the Americans. They have already used nuclear weapons on two Japanese cities to stop WW2 and they will not tolerate some tiny little idiot with a few bangers threatening to loose off any such fireworks in Korea o anywhere else.

 

It is not worth much discussion really. The US will squash it flat if it wriggles about too much. To even consider that a pin-prick of Asian wasteland is worthwhile blinking twice about, is preposterous.

 

Me ? I have other more important things on my mind, like taking the dog for a walk.

 


#11 Chris Cosgrove

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:55 PM

@ Mr. Bruce, Post 9

 

I think you exaggerate the problem. Yes, the results of a few nice dirty ground bursts would not be pleasant, particularly for everybody down wind but you are not talking here about the scale of the potential nuclear war that threatened on and off during the Cold War. There you had the situation that the USSR and the Warsaw Pact on one side, and the USA and NATO on the other could throw several thousand strategic and tactical nuclear weapons at each other. I carried a rifle for Her Majesty through much of the second half of the Cold War, and we spent an awful lot of training time on nuclear, chemical and biological warfare methodologies.

 

At the moment, the North Korean government have basically given up the element of surprise by turning this into a propaganda exercise, which means essentially that they have no intention of attacking anybody at the moment. Declarations of war went out of fashion somewhere about 1936.

 

Chris Cosgrove



#12 georgehenry

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:09 AM

Why doesn't the US play him at his own game and say, "we are preparing to squash this little bug and his inconsequential excuse for a country"  Broadcast this all over Korea. Just to see what would happen.



#13 82_bleepingirl

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:25 PM

My feelings on this is.. considering who our commander and chief is, should North Korea not be blowing smoke...we are in serious trouble.



#14 Animal

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 06:52 PM

@82_bleepingirl

You do realize that the man who was elected as commander in chief cannot launch nuclear weapons of his own free will. Lots more politicians are involved in that process. Some are those you may politically agree with and some who you clearly outright loathe and detest. It's a group effort.

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#15 MrBruce1959

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:26 PM

@ Chris Cosgrove Yes, I am willing to agree with you about the difference between the cold war the current status of N. Korea's  nuclear capable arsenal. 

 

What I am concerned with is the detonation of any nuclear device over a major populated city, no matter what land we're talking about here. I do not exhibit hatred feelings towards anyone or any nationality, including the North Koreans. I do not wish death on millions of innocent women and children, whether they be South Koreans, North Koreans or Americans. I am sure among our enemies, there are countless people who do not agree with their nation's hatred for another people or nation.

 

Statements have been made that death is a part of life, it can't be avoided or stopped. This is very true if we are not aware of the possibility in advance. If someone is going to die because of health reasons, we always prey upon a possible solution to divert this from happening--such as medicine, organ transplants etc.

 

We knew the possibility of an attack on the World Trade Center was possible, it happened once before, we could have diverted that second lethal attempt if we knew when and where it was going to happen. U.S citizens had no clue either and over a thousand innocent people perished needlessly on that day September 11 2001.

 

We have current knowledge that North Korea is going to build their own nuclear defense system and that they have a right just as America has a right to manufacture nuclear warheads for the same reason. Whether their initial reason is to create an equal stand-off with America's possible interference in their rights as an independent nation, or if it is to make N. Korea the future no. 1 nuclear nation in the world is not clear to me at this time.

 

The whole point of this topic is how can we as Americans divert a possible nuclear discharge of any kind? We know the possibility is there, to doubt that the North Koreans have a nuclear capable missile is only setting us up for a surprise we wish not to experience.

 

To say "So what if Japan is nuked" or "So what if South Korea is nuked" is a display of inhuman concern for our fellow mankind, no matter where we come from or where we currently live, we are still human beings that are unfortunately living among a sea of hatred. We created the word hate and we can also destroy it. 

 

If I was asked to divert this situation, I would start off by stop trying to make other nations convert to our standards, if Capitalism is NOT what another country cares to practice, let them be communists. Who cares? My point is, we need to stop telling other leaders how to run their countries. True we need to police countries that do not play by the rules of getting along, but there are situations where we interfere where we shouldn't be.

 

Also, on an economic standpoint, America throws more money into other countries--where right here at home people are homeless and starving--that we owe more than we have on hand. China--as one major example--is owed money in the trillions of dollars by the U.S. The American one dollar bill is almost the equivalent of the one cent coin, it just doesn't buy much anymore.

 

I believe America has to start taking care of our own, not the rest of the world. I also believe if we stopped trying to be the big shots of the world we wouldn't be the center of a communist country's threats. Look at all the other counties out there that you never hear about being involved in a conflict, such as Australia.  

 

I'll conclude this post at this point because I could go on and on about solutions that would work, I am one person and my ideas will never be the ones used by those who do have control and can use them.

 

Bruce.


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