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Recently Upgraded PC.


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#1 JonTomNom

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Hello Bleeping Computer.

About 2-3 weeks ago, I decided it was time to fully upgrade my PC, from my CPU to my PSU and from my HDD to a new copy of Windows, Windows 8 specifically. Beforehand, everything was fine with my computer. The internet worked, my videogames worked, no problems at all. However, now after upgraded, everything seems to be in a much less reliable state.

I wanted to turn my PC in a more dedicated gaming console, so my main focus was on getting better RAM, a new graphics cards and using a 64 bit version of Windows. After plonking everything in and starting everything up, on occasion, Firefox will just crash without warning and does so a good 5-6 times a day. Nearly all of my videogames willc rash to desktop without any warning or I'll get the error: 'Game X has stopped working'.

I also had a lot of power surges which happened randomly and shut down my PC to save it from being damaged, though after browsing forums where people had suffered the same thing, I have disabled the anti-surge protection on my motherboard and this has solved this problem. What I cannot get my head around though is why Firefox is constantly crashing and why my videogames are unplayable now.

I doubt this is enough information for you chaps to work with, so if you require anything else, lemme know and I'll post what I can in my reply.

Basic computer stats are:
ASUS AM3+ M5a78L-M/USB3 M-ATX motherboard
AMD FX 4100 Black Edition Quad Core processor
AMD 8GB DDR3 RAM
CIT (Or CIJ, logo on the box is funny) AXT 2.2 700W PSU
nVidia GeForce GTX 650
Windows 8 64bit

As far as I know, all drivers are up to date with the possible exception of my motherboard/BIOS. When I tried to install the motherboard drivers with Windows 8, it wouldn't let me.


Any help would be appreciated. Getting fed up with how unreliable my PC has become.

Thanks~!

John.

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#2 westom

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

I doubt this is enough information for you chaps to work with, so if you require anything else, lemme know and I'll post what I can in my reply.


If I understand. A computer protects itself from surges by powering off. A surge that does damage in microseconds is averted by a power off that requires seconds? Those numbers make no sense. Especially when destructive surges occur typically once every seven years.

So you were using an anti-static wrist strap when removing or installing anything? Therefore you know overstress did not happen?

Execute hardware diagnostics for each component. New RAM must be better than existing and never failing old RAM? Infant mortality is always a problem.

Best is to start by only collecting hard facts. Especially numbers. For example, did the OS lock up? Or did a power system power off? Or the computer fails with a BSOD? Windows works around any existing failures. And records those failures in the system (event) logs. What do those logs report?

Normal and ideal temperature for any computer is a room at 100 degrees F (40 degrees C). How to find defective hardware months before it starts failing hard? One powerful diagnostic tool is heat. Unfortunately, many see a computer fail at elevated temperatures. Then blame temperature rather than defective and slowly getting worse hardware. Hardware could not fail because it is new? Nonsense. Least reliable part of a system are newest components. Especially if you did not take precautions such as anti-static and removing the power cord from a wall receptacle before disconnecting anything.

List of suspects and needed information is many times longer than this post. But trends should be clear. Learn powerful diagnostic tools. Break the problem down into parts. Separate potential hardwarwe problems from potential software (ie driver) problems. Verify one is 100% reliable before even considering the other side. Learn why better component manufacturers provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics. For example, execute a (provided for free) diagnostic from a disk drive manufacturer. Heat memory with a hair dryer on highest heat while testing only memory with a diagnostic such as Memtst86? Collect facts from event logs. Execute in normal and in safe mode. Measure PSU voltages especially when the computer is multitasking to every peripheral? More examples of collecting facts long before trying to fix anything.

The first paragraph demonstrates why reasoning must always include numbers. No facts say hardware did not protected itself from that assumed anomaly. Numbers suggest something different.

Edited by westom, 21 December 2012 - 10:06 PM.


#3 JonTomNom

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

Hello Westom.

Thank you for getting in touch.

When I upgraded my PC< I did unplug the main power cord from the wall socket and I made sure to earth myself by touching the radiator on multiple occasions. I wanted to use an anti-static wrist strap, but none were for sale in the shop I brought everything from and the seller told me to either keep touching my desktop chassis or a radiator or something else equilivent to keep myself earthed.

As for logs on errors, the only one I have been able to find was an error when my PC shut down with a BSOD. The error read:

PFN_LIST_CORRUPT

I get no other error logs when Firefox shuts itself down or when my games CTD, other then 'Program X has stopped working'.
As far as I am aware, my setup is more then enough to run the games I want to play without much stress, so why these problems are happening now when my older desktop worked fine, are baffling me.

WHere can I find more of these error logs to show you chaps? I'll post what I can in my reply.


Thanks.

John.

#4 westom

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:33 AM

As for logs on errors, the only one I have been able to find was an error when my PC shut down with a BSOD. The error read:
PFN_LIST_CORRUPT
...
WHere can I find more of these error logs to show you chaps? I'll post what I can in my reply.


Every BSOD comes with critically important numbers. Numbers are important especially if you don't know what they mean. Other relevant text was probably in that BSOD.

Use Windows Help and Support to find system (event) logs. These are usually found in Computer Management. And also found in other Windows.

Static does not discharge to earth. It discharges to a completely different ground that is typically a floor beneath your feet. However, the radiator probably connected electrically to charges underneath your shoes.

Earth is irrelevant to static protection. Discharge static by connecting charges on your fingertips to charges located beneath your feet. On a path that is not destructive. Static damage is when the resulting electric current passes harmfully through electronics on a path to the floor.

Point of anti-static and power cord demonstrate the number of subtle reasons why a new part can be unstable or overstressed.

Systems are not stressed. Computer operates at a speed defined by its clock. It is equally stressed whether doing complex processing or just sitting there doing simple housekeeping. No program instructions should ever crash a computer. A heavily loaded system only appears to work slower; but is not 'stressed'. Every machine code instruction executes methodically no matter how much work a CPU does or does not do.

Be sure to do everything suggested. In your case, numbers from a meter are particularly important.

#5 JonTomNom

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:33 PM

Have suffered a couple more BSOD in the past week or so.

KERNAL_SECURITY_CHECK_FAILURE -- Was the only thing that shown up on the BSOD other then the information telling me that my PC had run into a problem and needed to shut down. These are not like your typical BSOD's were you get numbers and what not. I just get a message saying that Windows has encountered a problem and needs to shut down to prevent further damage or some such, with a ': (' at the end. Then it tells me to search the KERNAL sentence for more information. No numbers.

Second BSOD was PFN_LIST_ERROR again. No numbers.

I can't find this Computer Management nor Windows Help and Support.

Checked all my drivers and apparently everything is up to date bar my BIOS. Keep getting small pop-up bubbles on my toolbar/taskbar saying my PC took longer to boot up then normal, then suggests I click on it and buy some PC Tune Up program supported by AVG.

I use Windows 8 Pro. Point me in the right direction to find you some numbers and I'll post them in my reply.

Thanks for the help so far!

Edited by JonTomNom, 03 January 2013 - 11:33 PM.


#6 westom

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:13 AM

I use Windows 8 Pro. Point me in the right direction to find you some numbers and I'll post them in my reply.

Every Windows I have seen back to Windows NT 3.1 has a Help and Support. Usually listed with other options when clicking on the Start icon (bottom left corner). Help will also provide shortcuts to the System (event) logs and the Device Manager. Or to the Control Panel. Those are important tools that have long existed on NT type OSes. BSOD eror numbers, if possible, are stored in the system logs.

Vauge statements in those 'stripped naked' error messages say too little to obtain any useful recommendation. Look for the various expressions (Control Panel, Help and Support, Computer Management, System logs, Device Manager, etc).

Edited by westom, 04 January 2013 - 02:16 AM.


#7 MDTechService

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:00 AM

Let's see if we can help you sort this out

:step1: Please follow the instructions: Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) Posting Instructions - Windows 8, 7 & Vista
(Note: When you run BSOD_Windows7_Vista_v2.64_jcgriff2_.exe, it will also run autoruns.exe ... and both need to be in the Documents folder!)[/i]

Specific instructions for the minidump files:

  • Navigate to C:\Windows\Minidump <<< folder
  • Click on the most recent minidump file.
  • Hold down the <Ctrl> key, and click on the 3 next-most recent minidump files to also select them.
  • Release the <Ctrl> key.
  • Now, right-click on one of the selected files > Send to ... > Compressed (zipped) Folder.
    The file will be located at C:\Windows\Minidump
  • Attach the zip file to your next reply.
    When you click on Add Reply, you will see the facility to attach a file just below the box where you type your message.
  • If your permissions won't allow you to read or create a compressed file in this directory, simply drag and drop the files to your desktop and repeat the above steps.



The BC forums will allow a total attachment size of only 512 kb (and what you need to attach will exceed this limit).
  • Please upload the zip file to a file sharing website of your choice and and post a link to it in this thread so that we can access your uploaded zip file.
See the suggestions in the following links for recommendations on file sharing websites:
  • http://lifehacker.com/388284/best-online-file-sharing-services
  • http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/15-great-free-online-file-sharing-alternatives/
  • http://www.smashingapps.com/2008/08/28/5-best-free-file-hosting-services-to-store-your-files.html

    I can recommend Posted Image: Also suitable is Posted Image

:step2: Please Publish a Snapshot using Speccy, and post a link to it in this thread.
  • It is a convenient and accurate way of providing us with details of your computer specifications.

:step3: Please download MiniToolBox, save it to your Desktop and run it.
  • Checkmark the following checkboxes:
    • List Installed Programs
  • Click Go.
    When the scan is finished, a text file will open in a Notepad window.
  • Copy the entire contents of the Notepad window, and paste in your reply.
    (Result.txt will be saved in the same directory the tool is run.)

Edited by MDTechService, 04 January 2013 - 03:04 AM.

If I am helping you and I haven't replied to your thread in 3 days, please PM me or bump it

Mike D, BS, A+, HPSP, MCTS
I <3 Linux
The Airline Open source airline simulation game
Check the power cable to the wall first!

#8 JonTomNom

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:39 AM

Hello folks and thanks for your continued support in regards to my problem.

Firefox crashed on me while typing up my reply and everything I wrote was deleted, so I apologies if I have missed something out that you asked for.
In regards to the Minidump files, I received the error: 'Files not found or no read permission'. I moved them to my desktop as you suggested sand I got the same error message when repeating the same steps.

As for everything else, I'll post it in order that it was laid out.

1a. Windows7_Vista_jcgriff2 - https://www.box.com/s/tkk7oxdumoxii57m2c3k
1b. PERFMON - https://www.box.com/s/612p41u4fnzql771pszc

2. Speccy - http://speccy.piriform.com/results/HrNpiPWHc5CaKI6SQDYFUPD

3. MiniToolBox -

MiniToolBox by Farbar Version: 25-11-2012
Ran by John (administrator) on 04-01-2013 at 14:24:25
Running from "C:\Users\John\Desktop"
Windows 8 Pro (X64)
Boot Mode: Normal
***************************************************************************

=========================== Installed Programs ============================

7-Zip 9.20 (x64 edition) (Version: 9.20.00.0)
Adobe Bridge 1.0 (Version: 001.000.000)
Adobe Common File Installer (Version: 1.00.0000)
Adobe Flash Player 11 Plugin (Version: 11.5.502.135)
Adobe Help Center 1.0 (Version: 001.000.000)
Adobe Photoshop CS2 (Version: 9.0)
Adobe Stock Photos 1.0 (Version: 001.000.000)
ASUS GPU Tweak (Version: 2.2.3.0)
AVG 2013 (Version: 13.0.2637)
AVG 2013 (Version: 13.0.2805)
AVG 2013 (Version: 2013.0.2805)
AVG PC TuneUp (Version: 12.0.4000.108)
AVG PC TuneUp Language Pack (en-US) (Version: 12.0.4000.108)
AVG Security Toolbar
D3DX10 (Version: 15.4.2368.0902)
DriverAgent by eSupport.com
Far Cry 3 (Version: 1.04)
Google Chrome (Version: 23.0.1271.97)
Google Update Helper (Version: 1.3.21.123)
Hawken
Incredibar Toolbar on IE
Java 7 Update 9 (64-bit) (Version: 7.0.90)
Java 7 Update 9 (Version: 7.0.90)
Java Auto Updater (Version: 2.1.9.0)
Microsoft Application Error Reporting (Version: 12.0.6015.5000)
Microsoft Corporation (Version: 11.0.50727.0)
Microsoft LifeCam (Version: 4.25.512.0)
Microsoft Mouse and Keyboard Center (Version: 2.0.162.0)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable (Version: 8.0.61001)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable - x86 9.0.21022 (Version: 9.0.21022)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable - x86 9.0.30729.17 (Version: 9.0.30729)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable - x86 9.0.30729.6161 (Version: 9.0.30729.6161)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 x64 Redistributable - 10.0.40219 (Version: 10.0.40219)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 x86 Redistributable - 10.0.40219 (Version: 10.0.40219)
Mozilla Firefox 17.0.1 (x86 en-GB) (Version: 17.0.1)
Mozilla Maintenance Service (Version: 17.0.1)
MSVCRT (Version: 15.4.2862.0708)
MSVCRT110 (Version: 16.4.1108.0727)
MSVCRT110_amd64 (Version: 16.4.1109.0912)
Nexus Mod Manager (Version: 0.34.0)
NVIDIA 3D Vision Controller Driver 310.70 (Version: 310.70)
NVIDIA 3D Vision Driver 310.70 (Version: 310.70)
NVIDIA Control Panel 310.70 (Version: 310.70)
NVIDIA Graphics Driver 310.70 (Version: 310.70)
NVIDIA HD Audio Driver 1.3.18.0 (Version: 1.3.18.0)
NVIDIA Install Application (Version: 2.1002.95.599)
NVIDIA PhysX (Version: 9.12.1031)
NVIDIA PhysX System Software 9.12.1031 (Version: 9.12.1031)
NVIDIA Stereoscopic 3D Driver (Version: 7.17.13.1070)
NVIDIA Update 1.11.3 (Version: 1.11.3)
NVIDIA Update Components (Version: 1.11.3)
PDFCreator (Version: 1.2.0)
Photo Common (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)
PunkBuster Services (Version: 0.993)
Realtek Ethernet Controller Driver (Version: 8.2.612.2012)
Realtek High Definition Audio Driver (Version: 6.0.1.6699)
RPG Maker VX Ace
Skype Click to Call (Version: 6.5.11422)
Skype™ 6.0 (Version: 6.0.126)
Speccy (Version: 1.19)
Spotify (Version: 0.8.5.1333.g822e0de8)
Steam (Version: 1.0.0.0)
System Requirements Lab CYRI (Version: 5.0.6.0)
Uplay (Version: 2.0)
Visual Studio 2010 x64 Redistributables (Version: 13.0.0.1)
Windows Live Communications Platform (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)
Windows Live Essentials (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)
Windows Live Installer (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)
Windows Live Messenger (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)
Windows Live Photo Common (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)
Windows Live PIMT Platform (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)
Windows Live SOXE (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)
Windows Live SOXE Definitions (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)
Windows Live UX Platform (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)
Windows Live UX Platform Language Pack (Version: 16.4.3505.0912)

**** End of log ****


I think I've covered everything bar the Minidump files as mentioned above, I was unable to Zip/Compress them.

Thanks for your help!


-=EDIT=-

Had a BSOD just litterally a minute ago.

"Your PC has encountered a problem and needs to shut down"
THREAD_SYSTEM_EXCEPTION_NOT_HELD

No numbers.

Edited by JonTomNom, 04 January 2013 - 12:06 PM.


#9 JonTomNom

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

Bumping this post up the list as MDTechService's signature states:

"If I am helping you and I haven't replied to your thread in 3 days, please PM me or bump it."

I hate bumping threads, but this problem is really annoying me and the sooner I can get this problem fixed, the better. Apologies to anyone this bumping may upset.

Had a BSoD happen just a moment ago while I was browsing a forum of which I am a memeber of.
On the BSoD it said:

CRITICAL_STRUCTURE_CORRUPTION.

No numbers.

Firefox has crashed 3 times on me trying to write this post. I am seriously starting to think that Winodows 8 Pro is the reason everything is messed up. I am tempted to buy a new copy of Windows 7 and downgrading since Win 8 is just so terrible.

#10 MDTechService

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:32 PM

Let's test this by elimination, I'm fairly sure it's a hardware compatibility problem.

Remove the new video card and either use integrated graphics or a known working card, give it a go and let me know what happens.

If it still crashes, you can replace the new card and try the same process with the RAM (replace the new with known working, one module at a time)
If I am helping you and I haven't replied to your thread in 3 days, please PM me or bump it

Mike D, BS, A+, HPSP, MCTS
I <3 Linux
The Airline Open source airline simulation game
Check the power cable to the wall first!

#11 westom

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:13 PM

CRITICAL_STRUCTURE_CORRUPTION.
No numbers.

Those who better know computers can recommend nothing without details; including numbers. If those numbers are not on the BSOD screen, then important details are probably stored elswhere. Ie system (event) logs.

The Minitoolbox also says little that is useful. Another also lists only what is loaded. It says the system logs exist. A list of what exists on the machine does not say why each BSOD occurs.

You have a few BSODs. Every BSOD provides details that say where or why it happened. Details may be in the system (event) logs. Or may be elsewhere. But until you provide those details, then every reply will only be speculation. 'Try this' or 'maybe do that'.

Details in the BSOD usually point to a specific hardware location. Different BSODs are usually crosshairs that define a specific failure. But the summary message (ie Critical Structure Corruption) says almost nothing useful. No details means no crosshairs. That BSOD message only says something (most anything) has failed.

MDTechServices also provide what is a promising source of hard facts.

Replies are as useful as facts and numbers provided. Find where BSOD details are stored. Typically in system logs. Other absolutely required details come from other sources including the Device Manager. Spend time only locating them. Every Windows also has a 'Help and Support' option that makes finding Device Manager, et al even easier.

Edited by westom, 06 January 2013 - 09:15 PM.


#12 James Litten

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:50 PM

I didn't take a real in depth look at everything but I have three suggestions that may get to the heart of the issue.

1. Uninstall AVG and see if the problems persist. This is especially a possible cause if it was installed prior to the upgrade to Windows 8.

2. Check the memory with a memtest boot CD http://www.memtest.org/ and see if there are any errors.

3. Make sure there is nothing connected to any USB ports that you do not need. If there is, disconnect it and see if the problem persists.

Let us know if you try any of these and what happens.

James

#13 MDTechService

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:52 AM

Thanks westom and james for jumping in - I'm a bit time crunched at the moment.

Anyway, the recommendations I made based on the CRITICAL_STRUCTURE_CORRUPTION were based on some W7/W8 support threads @ Microsoft noting new drivers commonly as the root of the problem (surprise there right?) in conjunction with one of the basics of hardware troubleshooting...if it was working before but isn't now, process of elimination can be incredibly simple and useful. The threads I have read show this particular BSOD in its various forms frequently pointing to memory corruption.

Another quick thing - if you are doing any overclocking with your system, you should reset factory defaults.

Edited by MDTechService, 07 January 2013 - 05:55 AM.

If I am helping you and I haven't replied to your thread in 3 days, please PM me or bump it

Mike D, BS, A+, HPSP, MCTS
I <3 Linux
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Check the power cable to the wall first!

#14 James Litten

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

If we're going to discuss our reasons for methods recommended here, I might as well post mine :)

Number one. First and foremost. My recommendation's raison d'être in any post is to offer a simple solution while minimizing the possibility of making matters worse.

My reccomendations in this thread are based on hands-on experience. It is what I would do if you hired me to fix this problem and I had it on my bench.

I noted two important aspects of this situation.

1. It is throwing errors across a wide variety of executables. This indicates that the error is occurring in an underlying system. I immediately think of these.

Video drivers (but you are running Windows 8 and I am aware of the great pains both Microsoft and Nvidia have taken in order to make their drivers fail more gracefully than this in Windows 8)

Memory (it is indeed actively used by all the executables that have thrown errors so it would be wise to test it)

Third Party Programs that run EVERYTIME an executable runs. AVG does this and there is not much reason to have a third party antivirus running on Windows 8. AVG also runs a firewall and internet scanner and has its tentacles wrapped around Firefox which appears to be particularly problematic for the OP.

2. Speccy shows the hardware to be in good shape (it is a very nice computer) and I saw no evidence of overclocking. I did however see an indication in another report (nfo) of an unknown malfunctioning USB device that may or may not be real.

James

#15 JonTomNom

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

Hello Weston, James and MDTechService.

Thank you all for your new inputs and continued help.

MDTechService:

Removing my GeForce GTX 650 and replacing it with my old GeForce 8800 GT caused my PC to run incredibly slowly. No games booted up, crashing instantly and if they did load, lagged with less then 1 FPS. I couldn't even reach the main menus.

Nothing changed when replacing my RAM. Removed one card down to 4GB, replaced with my old 2x2GB sticks and even whacked in a third 4GB to make it up to 12GB RAM, but nothing changed. Games crashed randomly when playing.

James:

1. Uninstalling seems to have improved the problem, but not fixed it. Firefox has dramatically reduced in the amount of times it has crashed. I think It's only crashed once or twice after uninstalling AVG, which has been about 12-ish hours now. So that's good. My games are still crashing after ranom timer intervals while playing, specifically Borderlands 2 and Kerbal Space Program. The latter is in Alpha, so crashes there can be expected.

2. I have downloaded and attempted to use the Memtest program, but it doesn't work. Tried the 'Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable ISO (.zip)' link and the 'Download - Auto-installer for USB Key (Win 9x/2k/xp/7) *NEW!*' link, downloading and running off a USB Stick, but neither of them started up.

3. Only USB items in use are my Keyboard, Mouse, Headset and an External HDD which has all my games on. The USB malfunction warnings have stopped showing up now, which would have either been my webcam, a gaming controller, my printer or my tablet. A double check of Device Manager confirms no more unknown devices.

Westom:

I know you're trying to help, but saying in every reply that you want to see some numbers and not provide me with further information or directions on how to get you these numbers, isn't helping. If I knew how to get you these numbers, I'd have posted them in my first reply to you. I'd really appreciate it if you can tell me step by step on how to get you these numbers, what programs I'll need, how to get past the whole 'permission not granted' thing when trying to open the minidumps or whatever or just what location I have to look at. I know it's something to do with system (event) logs, but that's all you keep saying. Where can I find these logs? Tell me that and how to view them and I'll post you some numbers.




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