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Brand new equipment - no boot


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#1 Falneth

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:53 PM

My uncle bought a bare-bones kit online to build a new PC. He has assembled it himself (he's done this dozens of times with other components). Here's the problem: Whenever the computer is assembled and turned on, it does NOTHING. There are no beeps (I hooked up the speaker to the motherboard) and got nothing. I pulled the RAM out of the computer so there is no memory in the computer at all and still no beeps at all. He has been having this issue on multiple computers with a variety of parts. None of his motherboards will send any output to the monitor nor will they issue any beeps when turned on. Currently there is nothing hooked up to the motherboard besides the power. No memory, no optical drive, no hard drive.

Here's the Specs that I know of:
Motherboard - MSI 785GTM-E45
RAM - Patriot PSD22G80026 (1 stick of 2GB) - PC2-6400 800 MHz

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#2 rotor123

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:21 PM

Try with the motherboard on a non conductive surface. Only memory, Power supply, Video card if needed.

Question: this is a new motherboard and still using DDR2?

New CPU, Power supply?

Roger

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#3 Falneth

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:29 PM

My uncle bought these parts as part of a bare-bones kit just over a year and a half ago. He had not used them until now. I will ask him what the processor is (he did say it is a quad core). The power supply is a DiabloTek 450 watt model PSDA450A.

Edited by Falneth, 20 September 2012 - 10:29 PM.

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#4 rotor123

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:35 PM

You need to visit MSI and verify that the CU is supported and that it is supported with the current BIOS. You can often find the current shipping version on a sticker on the Bios chip or the label on the Motherboard Box.

Also Make sure both the 24 pin and the 4 (8 Pin)are plugged into the motherboard. The 4 or 8 pin are the CPU power.

Good Luck
Roger

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#5 Falneth

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:39 PM

This power supply uses a 20 pin power connector. There is an extra 4-pin connector to add to the 20 pin plug and I've tried it both with and without the extra 4 pins plugged in. I already checked the 4 pin for the CPU power and it's plugged in. I looked up on MSI's website already with the info he gave me on the processor and it's compatible with the motherboard. I told him about the BIOS possibly not accepting the newer processor if it isn't updated but from what I could tell, this motherboard should already be ready for this processor. I'll have to get the exact info on the processor and make sure.

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#6 ph7ryan

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:39 PM

Are there any fans spinning at least? Because if not, I would immediately suspect a power problem. Even shot motherboards or shot processors will let the fans twitch. If there's no movement at all I would suspect the PSU.

#7 Falneth

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:40 PM

All the fans spin up to full speed and when the hard drive is connected, it spins up as well.

Edited by Falneth, 20 September 2012 - 10:40 PM.

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#8 ph7ryan

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:42 PM

Ok, so power is good. Do the fans stay at full speed until you shut it down? If so have you checked the video connection? Try a different video card. A lot of computers now won't even give an ok beep during post, and just boot up. I'm wondering if you aren't booting up, and just can't see it.

#9 Falneth

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:48 PM

The fans stay at full speed. Here's another issue: I can only turn off the computer by either unplugging it or flipping the switch on the power supply. Pressing and holding the power button does nothing to turn it off. I have connected a monitor to this computer with a DVI cable and a VGA cable (the motherboard has these two connectors as well as HDMI). None of these connectors give any input to the monitor. The power button light stays amber when connected to the computer but does NOT give the "connect cable" message.

Whenever I unplug the monitor from the tower, I get the connect cable message on the screen.

Edited by Falneth, 20 September 2012 - 10:48 PM.

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#10 coxchris

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:28 AM

Re seat the CPU make sure it fully secured and lock. I had this problem and It was the CPU not seated correctly.

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#11 rotor123

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:43 AM

None of his motherboards will send any output to the monitor nor will they issue any beeps when turned on. Currently there is nothing hooked up to the motherboard besides the power.


What Part or parts are common to the problem with his motherboards. That is where I would start. As an example If he is using the same power supply with all the motherboards, that would be the common part that could be defective. Have you tested the motherboard(s) outside of the computer on a non conductive surface. In this case, a Power supply, Motherboard with memory, monitor and a small screwdriver to momentarily short the power switch contacts on the motherboard. This is to eliminate improper mounting of the motherboard.

I have troubleshot in person installations with this same problem and some were caused by the way the motherboard was mounted. No standoffs, standoffs in the wrong spot shorting out the motherboard, And of course the ever possible bad hardware.

Is there a computer store nearby. Not a chain store. That actually does hardware work? Maybe they could test the parts for a reasonable fee?
Can you put your hands on a power supply tester or a voltmeter? If any one of the several voltages coming from the power supply is off or missing. You won't get anything.

Here is how to check the power supply with a voltmeter.

Reading PSU Rail Voltages

Caution: Please read this before continuing.


• Since it will be necessary for your computer to be on during this procedure, you need to be aware that you will be working with live 12Volt DC potentials, which if handled improperly may lead to electrical shock.

• There are electronics inside the case that are very susceptible to electrostatic discharges. To protect your computer, touch the metal of the case to discharge yourself of any electrostatic charges before touching any of the components inside.

• If you are not comfortable doing this procedure, then I would suggest that you not use this tutorial. The risks involved are minimal, but are there nevertheless. Anyone who uses this tutorial will be doing so at their own risk.


There are two devices commonly used to read the rail voltages: a PSU tester, and a multimeter.

The PSU tester is the easiest to use since all that is necessary is to plug the different connectors into the tester and read the results on the LCD display. The problem with most of these is that they only perform a pass/fail test. They will not provide you with actual voltage readings.

There are a variety of multiple meters, but this tutorial will address Analog and Digital multimeters. The advantage of these meters is that you will be able to obtain accurate real time voltage readings.

For those of you who wish to know more about multimeters there is an excellent article in Wikipedia.


Analog Multimeter

Posted Image


An Analog multimeter is a little more complicated to use. Both Analog and Digital multimeters need to be set to the appropriate voltage, but with an Analog multimeter, you will need to choose the voltage range and must read the proper scale.

The Analog multimeter uses a needle display which moves from 0 across the scale until it reaches the voltage being tested. This multimeter has five major linear divisions with multiple scales to read a variety of ranges. An example would be three different ranges. The first is graduated in increments of 0 through 5, the second, 0 through 10, and the third, 0 through 25. Each of these ranges are subdivided into divisions that are graduated into tenths. In order to read 12 volts the 0 through 25 range would be the appropriate one.

Because DC voltage has positive and negative potentials this device is polar sensitive, this means that if you reverse the two probes when reading a positive DC voltage it will read as a negative voltage. This is actually necessary to read negative DC voltages. The two probes are differentiated by their color, Black (negative), and Red (positive). To read a positive DC voltage, the correct probes must be used with their corresponding potentials (positive to positive and negative to negative).

With the probes being used normally to read a negative DC voltage, the needle moves from the 0 to the left, "pegging" the needle. By reversing the probes you can properly read the negative voltages.

Digital Multimeter

Posted Image


The Digital multimeter (DMM) is much simpler to use. As was mentioned previously, you will need to set the appropriate voltage. One of the advantages is that the DMM has an LCD display with a numeric readout, so there are not any multiple scales to read. Another advantage is that most DMMs are autoranging when reading voltages, which means that you will not need to set the range with these DMMs. A DMM will read both positive and negative DC voltages and display them correctly. When reading a negative voltage, a minus sign will appear on the display before the numeric value. This still is a polar sensitive device, so you will still need to use the positive and negative probes with their corresponding potentials.

There are five different DC rail voltages which are color coded. The Black wires are always negative.

Yellow +12VDC

Blue -12VDC

Red +5VDC

White -5VDC

Orange +3.3VDC


There are only three voltages that can be measured easily without disconnecting the 20/24 pin connector from the motherboard: +12V, +5V, and +3.3V.

The +12V and +5V voltages can be read from a four pin Molex power connector.

Four pin Molex power connector

Posted Image


The same voltages can be taken from a four pin SATA power connector, but in order to read the +3.3V you will need to read this from a five pin SATA power connector as seen below.

Five pin SATA power connector.

Posted Image

To read these voltages you will need to insert the Black (-) probe into any of the black sockets, and insert the Red (+) probe in the different colored voltage sockets. To read the voltages from a SATA power connector it is easiest to insert the probes into the back of the connector where the wires enter. Unfortunately the sockets of the modular SATA power connectors are not accessible from the back, so the readings will need to be made from the socket side. Some probes are going to be too large to fit in these sockets, so you may need to insert a piece of wire into the socket of which you want to read the voltage of and place the probe on this for your reading. To reduce the potential of creating a short I would suggest taking the ground potential from another connector so that the two wires will remain physically separated.

Caution: It is very important to make sure that you don't allow the two probes to touch each other when taking the voltage readings. This will cause a short which could damage the PSU or other components.

To get accurate readings of the rail voltages it is important that there be a load on the PSU. In order to do this I would suggest downloading Prime95 for this purpose. This program was designed to be used by overclockers to put a full load on the RAM and CPU to determine the stability of their overclocking. Because of this it will put stress on the CPU and RAM which will create higher than normal temperatures. For this reason I would suggest not running this program any longer than is necessary. I would also suggest that an inspection be made of the interior of the case to make sure that there isn’t an accumulation of dust which would impede adequate cooling. Pay special attention to the heat sink and fan assembly on the CPU. If there is a dedicated graphics card with a fan installed on it, look at this fan as well.


Readings should not have variances larger than +/- five percent.

Maximum.........Minimum
12.6V.................11.4V
5.25V.................4.75V
3.47V.................3.14V


Good Luck
Roger

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#12 Falneth

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 01:51 PM

What Part or parts are common to the problem with his motherboards. That is where I would start. As an example If he is using the same power supply with all the motherboards, that would be the common part that could be defective. Have you tested the motherboard(s) outside of the computer on a non conductive surface. In this case, a Power supply, Motherboard with memory, monitor and a small screwdriver to momentarily short the power switch contacts on the motherboard. This is to eliminate improper mounting of the motherboard.

I have troubleshot in person installations with this same problem and some were caused by the way the motherboard was mounted. No standoffs, standoffs in the wrong spot shorting out the motherboard, And of course the ever possible bad hardware.

Is there a computer store nearby. Not a chain store. That actually does hardware work? Maybe they could test the parts for a reasonable fee?
Can you put your hands on a power supply tester or a voltmeter? If any one of the several voltages coming from the power supply is off or missing. You won't get anything.


I own a digital multimeter that I will use to test the power supply. I just finished testing the setup with the motherboard on the non-conductive bag it came in on my wood kitchen table. The power supply is sitting on the table next to it. I also have a spare powersupply I know works from my previous setup that I will try and see if that does anything different. I used the front panel of the case and connected just the power switch when I performed this test. I turned on the power but still no sounds from the motherboard and no display on the monitor, regardless of whether there was RAM installed or not in the motherboard.

I have been using the onboard VGA and DVI adapters to connect to the monitor. No response from either. I'm trying to get this setup to work so we can install an operating system on the hard drive which has not been used before either. So for right now, just getting a POST screen would give indication of some success.

Update 1: I hooked my working power supply to the motherboard (still on the non-conductive bag on my table) and plugged in the 24 pin power connector and the 4 pin connector for the processor. I tried it both with the RAM installed and the RAM not installed. Neither time got any display on the monitor nor got any sounds from the motherboard.

Update 2: I tried to get monitor output by adding a graphics card to the setup on my table but still got nothing.

Edited by Falneth, 21 September 2012 - 03:09 PM.

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#13 Falneth

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 02:45 PM

Here's the processor info: AMD Phenom X4 9750 Agena 2.4GHz Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor HD9750XAJ4BGH

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#14 rotor123

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 02:59 PM

Did you check to make sure it was installed properly. One bent pin will kill the P.O.S.T. process. I have seen the AMDs put into the socket wrong. It did the pins no good either. I use a strong magnifying glass to check the pins. I sight through the rows of pins parallel to the CPU as well as looking from above.

Also do not run it with the heatsink off, That one will heat up quick.

Good Luck
Roger

Edited by rotor123, 21 September 2012 - 03:16 PM.

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#15 Falneth

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:13 PM

So you suggest I take the heatsink off the processor when I turn it on?

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