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2 routers / 2 networks / 1 computer


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#1 tb39

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 08:24 PM



Good day all. Been a long time since I posted here. All that have helped before have been most helpful. Thanks for that

Here is what I am trying to do. I want to have two routers (Netgear WNR2000 & an older D-Link DI-524 with the wireless turned off) connected at the same time. The Netgear router is the internet access router for both computers. The D-Link router will be for a private network with no internet access. It will act as a media server for 2 computers and a BD player (both computers are connected to the Netgear router as well). The goal is: I don't want to have to disable one network connection just to use the other and currently that is what I have to do.

Any suggestions are appreciated. If any more information is needed, please let me know.

tb39



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#2 xAPMx

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:55 AM

As far as I know this cannot be done.

You could just simply connect the D-Link Internet port > Netgear Ethernet port and then disable DHCP and Wireless on D-Link and effectively using D-Link as a switch. Then connect your Media Server and BD Player to D-link then you SHOULD be able to access them from the 2 computers connected to your netgear, HOWEVER this means the D-Link will NOT be on a private network. With those devices I do not know of a way to effectively make the D-Link it's own private network but yet STILL be able to allow the 2 computers to access it.

If you ONLY want the BD player to access the Media Server then just plug in the D-Link and NOT connect it to the netgear then plug both BD Player and Media Server in 2 of the ethernet ports on D-Link. This will allow the D-Link to act as a switch and both the Media Server and BD player will be able to communicate with each other, however they will not be able to have internet access (only local LAN/Network access) and the 2 computers connected to Netgear then will not be able to see the media server.

IMO, My recommendation would be to forget about trying to make a private network, toss out the D-Link router and just by a standard Switch then just plug the Switch into the Netgear and connect your BD Player and Media Server to the switch. Then all devices will be on same network. Will save you much headache.


EDIT: There is one way I know of to be able to use the D-Link to make a Private network but yet STILL have internet access. this would be contacting your ISP and getting a second cable modem then connect the D-Link to your second cable modem

Edited by xAPMx, 15 September 2012 - 12:57 AM.


#3 tb39

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 01:25 PM


Thanks for the suggestions. As usual, I intend to be as thorough as possible in my initial post but seem to leave out some sort of detail.

The Netgear router is in another room and running a 50 foot cable from that room along a hallway to the d-link router is not an option. HD video (720 or 1080) is very choppy when streamed to the bd player via wireless. This is why I wanted to use a second router that is in the same room as the bd player, media server and the 2 computers. I don't have an issue running a cable that stays in one room. It is easy enough to run the cable along the wall and keep it out of sight.

Unless there is someway to have both networks going at the same time, I guess I will just have to connect the d-link router to the computers only when needed.

In terms of an additional modem (we have dsl), that is not even an option, I believe. We have a direct fibre optic connection and a modem is not needed. An rj45 cable goes directly from the wall jack into the Netgear router with no modem required.




#4 tos226

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:35 PM

Thinking out loud so that I can try to understand it in my words :)

In one faraway room Netgear is external router and any computer connected to it can go out to the internet.
- connected by WiFi I suppose to network-A, they get IP something like 192.168.1.xxx, correct?
In the safe room Dlink is internal, no WiFi, has BD player, and want to block internet for computers connected to it.
- same computers are wired to Dlink on network-B, they get IP 192.168.2.yyy, correct?
Netgear and Dlink are not connected to one another.
Switching networks is a pain.

If all above is a correct summary, turning of WiFi on the 2 computers might be a very quick and easy solution. Windows might (??) automatically reaquire IPs from the DLink router. Or it might not even be needed if it's been there all along if computers get DHCP automatically and if DLink can be used as a DHCP server at the same time. Not sure of this!

Run ipconfig /all -- do you see IPs listed under both ethernet and wireless normally, or just under one? If so, this solution should work.

#5 tb39

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:55 PM


Your assumptions are correct...
Netgear router to be only router to connect to internet via WiFi. Router address is 192.168.1.XXX
DLink router to be used as internal network only (no internet). Host address is 192.168.0.XXX
The two routers are not connected to each other.
Would like to have both computers connected to both routers and be connected at the same time if at all possible. Wouldn't say switching networks is a pain... just inconvenient :wink:
Currently when I go to enable the Dlink router (wired one... by choice) the wireless gets disconnected automatically. It enables itself immediately once I disconnect The Dlink.

My ipconfig info below (once I enabled the Dlink wired connection)

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : Tom-PC
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : TRENDnet Wireless N USB Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::cd85:3a8e:fe01:e425%11(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.163(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:22:32 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:22:31 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 268440785
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-16-F4-0B-CD-54-04-A6-2C-6E-44

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Ethernet adapter Network HDD:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel® 82583V Gigabit Network Connectio
n
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 11-11-11-11-11-11
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::5cfa:a3d2:24af:3583%10(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.102(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, September 18, 2012 6:14:37 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, September 25, 2012 6:14:36 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 223610022
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-16-F4-0B-CD-54-04-A6-2C-6E-44

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Not sure I follow you regarding turning off the wifi. How would I do that (short of unplugging the usb receiver I use)?

Thanks for the assistance. Look forward to your response.



#6 tos226

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:51 PM

My response won't help you, unfortunately, but I'm thinking.

Thanks for the ipconfig list. It confirms and clarifies things. BTW, IPv6 address includes you MAC address, so if you really want to hide "Physical address", as 00-00... or 11-11... , obliterate IPv6 line too. But it really is pointless, as MAC address is non-routable. Anyway, that's off topic.

Since you say "Currently when I go to enable the Dlink router (wired one... by choice) the wireless gets disconnected automatically." that's what I thought would happen, so that's good.
But since WiFi got disconnected, and since DLink is not hooked to Netgear, no internet is possible. So the thing you are trying to do is how to easily enable/disable that DLink connection.

How do you do it now? Plug in ethernet cables? disconnect the WiFi adapter? Or use some Windows Network menu item?

Does your Dlink have an on-off power switch? If so that's one point to change instead of two.
If DLink doesn't have a power button, but Netgear does (mine does), swap the routers.
If neither has a power button, perhaps you could plug in the power cord of DLink, the internal router, into some strip that has a switch. When you turn the switch on, the router will boot and the rest follows.

I know isolating and changing networks is possible. I think it's done by scripts in Windows.

There are network experts here, so let's hope one of them pitches in, because I'm out of ideas.

I too have optical connection, no modems. And one computer has no WiFi, so uses an adapter. I might, time permitting, prototype some way of this isolation with the routers I have, but no promises.

Edited by tos226, 18 September 2012 - 10:57 PM.


#7 tb39

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:07 AM



I figured that was an address too. I didn't want to alter too much. :whistle:

Currently I just leave the ethernet cable plugged in and enable/disable it in the windows network settings.

The dlink has no power switch. The Netgear does. However, I prefer to leave the Netgear one where it is at. The dlink one I have had for around 8 years or so and will work fine for my purposes.

I believe there has to be a way as well. It is beyond my scope however, especially when you start mentioning the use of scripts and such.

If you get around to it and you figure out a way, let me know. Thanks for all your help.



#8 tos226

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:12 PM

Are you on Windows XP?
If not, which windows?, if not XP I'll have to ask you to try something later.
Are you an admin?, if not I'll have to ask you to try something later.
Do you have network icons displaying in the system tray? if not, make'm display - it allows quick visual feedback.
Do you know how to use Notepad and save a file?
Do you know how to make a shortcut to a file?

I made a mockup of your setup on my XP, I think.
An old computer that has no wifi inside uses a USB wifi adapter.
It's connected by WiFi to the internet, external, router.
It's connected by ethernet cable to the "local", standalone router not connected to anything else.
Computer can get to the local router or out to the internet through the external router.

I have two shortcuts on the screen for two tiny batch files I just put together.
Click one to turn off WiFi - this gives computer only access to the local router.
Click the other, this restores WiFi and we're back to the state where computer is connected to both routers.
I can't think of any simpler way. Does clicking a shortcut icon matches your wishes?

Edited by tos226, 20 September 2012 - 01:25 PM.


#9 tb39

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:25 PM



Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. Did not get a chance to get on my computer yesterday.

I am running Windows Vista 32bit.
I am set up as an admin.
Only network related icons I have in the system tray are: Currently Connected icon & an icon for the usb wireless network adapter I have so I can connect / disconnect, etc.
More than aware of how to use notepad and make a shortcut to a specific file.
It has been ages since I wrote any basic scripts or batch files so I would need assistance there.
If I can't get both at one time, making a batch file so I can switch between the two quickly would work.



#10 tos226

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 11:24 AM

Just type these two files into Notepad. It could be made into one file with select A or B, but then you'll have to select and hit enter - too much work :)
The end result is two shortcuts on the screen which you double click. DLink stays connected, but we enable/disable Netgear communication by radio.

In the below files we're wildcard matching what Windows issues for the adapters - "Wireless Network Connection:" and NOT the Description line "TRENDnet Wireless N USB Adapter"
If you were doing this for the wired DLink connection, the match probably would be to any words in "Ethernet adapter Network HDD".

Save this as "WiFi-OFF.bat" or "DLinkOnly.bat" or "BD mode.bat"

@rem Turn OFF wifi - it'll set wireless IP to 0.0.0.0 and stop internet access
@ipconfig /release *Wireless*


Save this as "WiFi-ON.bat" or "Allow internet.bat" or "Enable Netgear.bat" or "BothON.bat"

@rem Turn ON wifi - changes IP 0.0.0.0 back to what Netgear dhcp server issues
@ipconfig /renew *Wireless*


Make shortcuts and drag them out onto the screen. I didn't put it in the system tray, just in the corner nearby.
If problems - just try these commands in the cmd window and adjust based on what you see in ipconfig /all list.

So long as you have admin rights on computers, this should work. If not, post back, and I'll tell you how to include RunAs.

#11 NpaMA

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 06:17 PM

This may not work the way you wanted, but as reading this I had an idea:

Use one router, connect all devices to it. But use static IPs from a different subnet on your "private" devices. On the devices that you want to have access to both internet and the private network set your default IP to use DHCP (how it does now), but on your alternate IP set it up on your private subnet. What should happen is that all traffic going to the private network is routed as a switch, and not as a router. Since you won't have a real default gateway/next hop address - the PCs configured only with the "private" IP will NOT have any internet access and will not be able to be routed across the internet. This does give a minor security issue since people already on your main network could then use a packet sniffer and get the IPs of the private, but IMO if this is for home those people are already close enough to plug into the router directly and gain the same access.

So basically...

192.168.1.0/24 = your main router/internet access
All PCs get IPs from DHCP. IP will be 192.168.1.X with mask 255.255.255.0

192.168.122.0/24 = your private network
Manually assign these IPs to your PC's NIC. IPs will be 192.168.122.X with mask 255.255.255.0

Also, what you want to do with the two routers is possible but it's a MAJOR headache. Not to mention that after Microsoft sends updates to "fix" things, it'll break custom configurations like this. I've had something very similar (with two routers) set up before, and while I could get it to work - about once a week I would have to spend 4+ hours undoing Microsoft's "fixes" or just changes that happened for no reason.


Another option, would be to run a double NAT setup. Plug Router2 into Router1's LAN port, and devices on Router1 (your internet-enabled router) will not have access to the private network behind router2. However, any devices connected to Router2 would still be able to communicate with R1 and the internet.

Edited by NpaMA, 22 September 2012 - 06:21 PM.


#12 tb39

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 01:15 AM



Thanks to all for the suggestions. :wink:

I will give them a try and let you know what happens as soon as I get home from my weekend getaway trip.

Stay tuned....



#13 ph7ryan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 03:08 PM

Haven't read through this entire post so excuse me if I am touching on something that has already been touched on, but does your motherboard have 2 lan ports, or do you have a spare ethernet pci card lying around? If you do, or even if you don't you can buy one for really cheap now days, you should just be able to connect the two ports to 2 seperate routers. Unless the connections are bridged (you would have to actually bridge them if you wanted) they will remain as two separate networks. So you could have your desktop attached you your network with the modem, and have it attached to a network without a modem. Each NIC will handle it's own traffic, so you don't even have to worry about that. A lot of gaming PC's and motherboards are coming with multiple Ethernet ports for the reason of allowing internet access, but also remaining on a LAN for gaming parties, and not mixing the two.

#14 tb39

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:49 PM



Apologies for the delay in getting back. Been busy the last couple of weeks and have not had much computer time.

The brief times that I did have on it, I monitored certain activity. While connected to the wireless (the internet connection) and downloading content from my nntp, I was able to connect the wired network and transfer stuff to the network drive (both networks working at the same time. However, I was not able to browse the internet during this time via firefox and ie. Maybe because they connect through different ports (If I remember correctly, http is port 80 and the secure nntp reader I use, uses port 563 by default). Hmm... something else to think about now and to mess around with.

Ultimately, I have decided that I will just connect the wired network only when I need to transfer content over to the network drive. It is not really necessary that I have both going at the same time all the time. It would be nice and I still want to try out your suggestions (BleepIN--BleepOUT). I should be able to try it this weekend.

Again, thanks for the suggestions :thumbup2:



Edited by tb39, 05 October 2012 - 07:49 PM.


#15 djicyice

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 02:45 PM

This may not work the way you wanted, but as reading this I had an idea:

Use one router, connect all devices to it. But use static IPs from a different subnet on your "private" devices. On the devices that you want to have access to both internet and the private network set your default IP to use DHCP (how it does now), but on your alternate IP set it up on your private subnet. What should happen is that all traffic going to the private network is routed as a switch, and not as a router. Since you won't have a real default gateway/next hop address - the PCs configured only with the "private" IP will NOT have any internet access and will not be able to be routed across the internet. This does give a minor security issue since people already on your main network could then use a packet sniffer and get the IPs of the private, but IMO if this is for home those people are already close enough to plug into the router directly and gain the same access.

So basically...

192.168.1.0/24 = your main router/internet access
All PCs get IPs from DHCP. IP will be 192.168.1.X with mask 255.255.255.0

192.168.122.0/24 = your private network
Manually assign these IPs to your PC's NIC. IPs will be 192.168.122.X with mask 255.255.255.0

Also, what you want to do with the two routers is possible but it's a MAJOR headache. Not to mention that after Microsoft sends updates to "fix" things, it'll break custom configurations like this. I've had something very similar (with two routers) set up before, and while I could get it to work - about once a week I would have to spend 4+ hours undoing Microsoft's "fixes" or just changes that happened for no reason.


Another option, would be to run a double NAT setup. Plug Router2 into Router1's LAN port, and devices on Router1 (your internet-enabled router) will not have access to the private network behind router2. However, any devices connected to Router2 would still be able to communicate with R1 and the internet.

I have 3 wireless d-link security cameras connected to my router, but I don't want them connected to the internet. They are HD and really use up data, I just simply want them connected to my pc.....will your idea help in my situation?  

 

And how exactly can I do it? please really need help with this, thanks  






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