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Can instal on some systems, but not others.


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#1 Shadow Wizard

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:11 PM

Well, here is an interesting issue. I have many Dell Optiplex 745's (All of them are the desktop version)
Some of them Windows installs fine, no issue.
Others, when it gets to the first reboot, the screen stays black.
Others will install completely, however after being on the desktop for about 30 seconds the screen turns an ugly brown. No icons, no pointer, nothing, the whole screen brown.
I have confirmed that one of the system that works uses bios version 2.3.1. I upgraded the bios from a non-working system from 2.2.0 to 2.3.1. I attempted a reinstall, and it did the same thing.
I have gone through the bios settings one by one, comparing a system that works to one that does not work, and made sure every single setting was exactly the same.
I have scanned the hard drive with Hard Disk Regenerator. It reported no bad or delayed sectors.
I have cleaned out the internals of the system in case dust build up is causing overheating. There is no dust buildup.
Is it possible to have a lil help with this, I am totally stumped.

Edited by hamluis, 08 September 2012 - 04:34 PM.
Moved from Win 7 to Internal Hardware - Hamluis.


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#2 rotor123

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:06 PM

Those are pretty easy to change the hard drives in. What happens if you move the hard drive from a working 745 to one that gives problems. Does it act up? If so which model of the 745 is it the Ultra small with the external power supply, or the slightly larger one with the short slots or the full size one?

If it comes with a video card did you try changing out the video card? or if it has one removing it if there is built-in Video too.

I have also had to replace a couple of bad capacitors in a 745 last year so that is something else to look at. Google bad capacitors for example of what a bad one looks like. In brief however the may look swollen with domed tops or be leaking electrolyte.

Good Luck
Roger

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#3 Shadow Wizard

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:08 AM

If we take a hard drive from a working computer and place it in one that does not work, it still will not boot properly.
As I stated, it is the desktop model. There are 4 versions. The ultra mini, one up from that that uses a slip/laptop optical drive. The desktop model (The ones I have) and the tower models.
Although some of the systems have bad caps there are 2 things that eliminate that as the cause. 1) The systems do boot, they start to load windows, but then the screen just goes black. The computer is still outputting a signal to the monitor, its just a black screen, and 2) Likely most notably, some of the systems that are not working appear to be in immaculate shape internally. Very clean, and no bad caps that I can see, or even feel a slight bulge on.
Can I ask what 745's you had, and what OS you were installing on them?

#4 rotor123

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:17 AM

I would start by replacing the bad capacitors with the proper replacements. Microfarad, voltage, size, Temperature, ESR & Ripple ratings. As a test. Bad capacitors can do funny things. I got mine from badcaps.net . For example this is the first place I look and see if they have a kit. probably because I'm lazy and if it is here I don't have to do any other work figuring out what I need.

Other sources would be Mouser
http://www.thecapking.com/745usff.html

From Here http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/list-dell-models-affected-capacitor-failures-t4040393.html

The problem with the Dells from about 2002-2004 involved wrongly made
Nichicon HM and HN capacitors (Nichicons from 2005 and later are OK),
and but I believe your Optiplex 745 is instead affected by Nippon/
United Chemicon KZG or KZJ series capacitors, which the experts at
BadCaps.net still consider to be bad. Here's a thread from that site,
about the Dell 745:

http://badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9494


And the forums are a good resource too.
I seem to remember reading that the KZG and maybe KZJ capacitors can fail without bulging or leaking.

I did one USFF and one of the smaller ones that takes a desktop DVDRW drive.

They run XP as that is what the Windows license on them from Dell is for.

Good Luck
Roger

Edited by rotor123, 10 September 2012 - 10:29 AM.

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#5 rotor123

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:39 AM

Some extra information.

http://www.ccl-la.com/blog/index.php/capacitors/

Because of the high frequencies created in switching mode power supplies like found in LCD monitors and motherboards you need to use replacement capacitors that can take it without shorting out. You will also need to use Low ESR (equivalent series resistance) and also high temperature caps, the temperature marking will be 105c. The general purpose capacitors like you would find at Radio Shack will not work

#1) Capacitance rating, measured in Micro Farads (220uf, 470uf, 820uf etc)
#2) Voltage rating (10v, 16v, 25v, etc) ( You can go higher on the voltage rating as long as it physically fits )
#3) Physical dimensions, measured in mm
#4) Needs to be LOW ESR ( Very Important ! ! )
#5) High ripple current
#6) High temp – 105c


And do not forget to watch the polarity. Make sure the - (negative) stripe is facing the same way as the old part.

Roger

Edited by rotor123, 10 September 2012 - 10:41 AM.

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#6 Shadow Wizard

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:33 PM

Time for some additional information. I installed windows XP on one of the systems that is not working with 7, and it is working fine. I even ran HyperPi to stress the CPU a bit, and still XP runs fine. This unit does have some bulged caps, but as I said, it works fine under 7, but not under XP. I think it is very unlikely that Xp would run fine, and 7 will not, that the caps are at fault.
So, can someone help me with his new information?

#7 rotor123

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:06 PM

Just recall that when Vista came out that systems that had run fine with XP were failing due to marginal memory, One of the tests for that was a memory test. Just because XP runs does not mean Windows 7 will.

The way I see it is that if the capacitors were not needed in their original values they would have saved the money by not putting them in.
Depending on where they are they could be affecting the CPU or memory circuits or PCI slot circuits or the motherboard in general.
My guess is that if they are still working now as the degenerate further weird things will start to happen.

For example from here on the SX280 page http://www.badcaps.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=1_4&products_id=12

The 22uF 25v cap goes next to the CMOS battery. This cap fails frequently without showing any physical signs of failure, and will make the system exhibit all kinds of strange behavior.

They can fail and show no sign of that failure except weird things happen.

If it were me I would repair the motherboards if I wanted them to run properly for a extended period of time.

However that is your decision.

I wish I could help you further.

Roger

Edited by rotor123, 18 September 2012 - 04:08 PM.

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#8 Shadow Wizard

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 11:22 AM

I have some more information. I have noticed that there are two revisions of the motherboard. A00 and A01. 7 Will not install on A00, but will on A01.
I have some more information as well as far as XP on these machines. It installs fine, runs fine, until I install the graphics driver. After rebooting all looks fine, until I move the mouse. As soon as I move the mouse the whole screen goes one color. At times its green, other times its blue, other times a brown. There is no writing, its just one solid color. I need to hold the power button to shut down. I decided to try and install an older driver, interestingly enough they have 3 previous driver versions in quick reach.. A02, A01 and A00, A00 being the oldest. So, thinking I had this figured out, I installed the A00 driver and rebooted. The computer still does the same, as soon as I move the mouse the screen turns one solid color.
Now an important point to make is every time I tried something different it was on a fresh install. I did not just roll back or install old drivers on top of new ones, I actually erased the hard drive and re-installed windows. I have tested this as well on 5 machines, making it unlikely that all 5 machines have exactly the same caps blown in exactly the same way.
This one really has me stumped. 50 points to whoever can come up with the right answer.




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