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Looking into buying a barebones computer


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10 replies to this topic

#1 TyGraham

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:19 PM

Looking into getting a barebones computer from magicmicro. This will mainly be a computer for school use (internet research, MS Office, also have one online class so i will need to download fairly large video files) Although i would like ability to have some good gaming. Im aware its not loaded with an OS, but i have all that and monitor, keyboard, ect. As the computer goes would this be a good set-up. Is there anything missing that i may need?

AMD FX-6200 Bulldozer 3.8GHz (Six Core) 32nm, AM3+ 8MB Cache
Spire Kestrel-King II AMD 64 fan
ASUS M5A78L-M LX PLUS AM3+, Onboard Video,Sound, GB LAN
8GB (2x4GB) PC10600 DDR3 1333 Dual Channel
HD Onboard 3D graphics Dual head (up to 1GB shared only if listed with board)
1000.0 GB Western Digital Green SATA3 6GB/s 64m cache
LG 22x DVD Recorder Dual Layer +R/RW -R/RW
Realtek HD digital audio (onboard)
Ethernet network adapter (onboard)
Apevia X-Dreamer 3 Black & Green front USB, eSATA, LCD temp. display
Logisys 400W ATX Power Supply

Also interested in everyones opinion on the best OS to choose.

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#2 killerx525

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:42 PM

If you wanted game on that system your gonna have to get a graphics card for it. Also the power supply that is chosen should be changed to a higher quality model.

>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#3 DJBPace07

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:55 AM

If you want to save money, you could get an APU-based system that includes the GPU on the CPU. These computers are good for general tasks and light gaming, but don't expect them to deliver blazing performance in games unless you get a dedicated GPU. AM3+ motherboards that have a GPU built in aren't usually as powerful on the graphics side of things. That motherboard you selected is using an old AMD 700 series chipset with an AM3+ socket. Some of the power gating features of the AM3+ CPU will not be available, also, the FX-6200 is not listed on the list of supported CPU's. If you want to go the APU route, I would get the ASUS F1A75-V PRO FM1 AMD A75 paired with the AMD A8-3870K Unlocked Llano 3.0GHz Socket FM1.

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#4 Bill_Bright

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:40 AM

Also interested in everyones opinion on the best OS to choose.

Since you have chosen 8Gb of RAM, you must choose a 64-bit OS. You say you already have an OS, just understand only a "boxed" full Retail license can be transferred to a new computer (or upgraded motherboard). It is illegal to use an OEM license that came with or was purchased for one computer on another computer. A disk “branded” with a computer maker’s brand name, or is labeled with “OEM/System Builder”, “Upgrade”, “Academic Edition”, or "For Distribution with a new PC only", is not transferable to your new PC (or upgraded motherboard) under any circumstances. These OEM licenses are inextricably tied to the "original equipment". So if that is the case, I recommend 64-bit Windows 7 or one of the many free Linux alternatives. Just ensure it is 64-bit since you have selected 8Gb of RAM. Note I am just the messenger stating the facts. This is all in the EULAs we agree to abide by when we first use our OEM software.

Spire Kestrel-King II AMD 64 fan

Huh? Why on Earth are you putting a cheap $9 cooler on an $160 CPU that already comes packaged with an excellent cooler? I hope you simply did not realize the CPU already comes with a capable cooler. It does, so you don't need to buy one.

If you were thinking the supplied coolers are junk, don't! Do not think for a second Intel or AMD supply lousy coolers. They don't. They can't. They never have! It would be like Ford and Chevy putting undersized radiators in all their cars and trucks - and we know that is not happening either.

Consider this - ONLY Intel and AMD cover replacement costs of the CPU if a failed OEM fan results in CPU damage - and that's for 3 years. Neither AMD nor Intel want to cover that cost so they provide coolers designed and engineered (by thermal and aeronautical engineers), and precision manufacturing techniques to keep those specific CPUs cool, even with moderate overclocking (in relative quiet) without failing (assuming proper case cooling, of course).

That $9 cooler is designed and engineered (maybe - at that price, maybe not) to fit a wide variety of CPUs and sockets and is warrantied for just 1 year. At least it has ball bearings instead of sleeve, but that does not mean they are precision ball bearings. And for $9 for the fan and heatsink, my guess is not. Nor would I assume the same level of precision manufacturing techniques.

I give you that OEM fans were never known for their quietness. But, especially in recent years, they are quieter than many aftermarket coolers - even those claiming to be quiet. And I would guess the one that comes with your CPU is quieter than that $9 one.

I can understand, maybe, "upgrading" to a nice CoolerMaster V6 GT if I was building a near "silent running" system for a home theater, for example. Or if were doing some extreme overclocking. But don't automatically discount the OEM fans. They do not deserve any "rumored" bad reputation you may have heard. That "bashing" comes from "extreme" users who "push" their systems beyond specifications, and by naive users who failed to understand proper case cooling comes first.

If you are not doing any extreme overclocking and still "NEED" the extra few degrees a good aftermarket CPU cooler provides (to keep your CPUs temps below 60°C 99% of the time), you need to look at your case cooling first and maybe ambient cooling too.

Not to mention, the AMD CPU Warranty is crystal clear:

"This Limited Warranty shall be null and void if the AMD microprocessor which is the subject of this Limited Warranty is used with any heatsink/fan other than the one provided herewith."


The Intel CPU Warranty is less clear but does say (my EMPHASIS added), the "Product" is defined as "the boxed Intel® processor AND the accompanying thermal solution". It then says,

This Limited Warranty does NOT cover:

• damage to the Product due to external causes, including accident, problems with electrical power, abnormal electrical, mechanical or environmental conditions, usage not in accordance with product instructions.

And of course, the instructions say to use "the accompanying thermal solution".

That may not be a concern for many enthusiasts, and that's okay if they understand the circumstances of their actions - and don't try to defraud Intel or AMD should something go wrong. But for "normal users", this may not be common knowledge and is something we all need to know about BEFORE we void our warranties.

While you may be an enthusiast, you made it clear this machine is intended primarily for school work. Therefore, as a dad and grandpa, I say stick with the cooler that comes with your CPU. It was chosen by the CPU maker for a reason.

Finally - I know - too long already - but I don't enjoy breaking down my computer system so I can lug the machine outside to blast out the layer of heat trapping dust my fans sucked in. So I will never have a case again that does not have removable washable air filters. I like Antecs.

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#5 hamluis

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:03 PM

FWIW: If I were a student today...I would want a laptop (inexpensive) and not necessarily a desktop, for the purpose of mobility.

I haven't used a 400-watt PSU in probably 5 years...and I don't do anything special/taxing on my desktops (non-gamer).

I'd rethink what I actually need for school...as opposed to what I might want that has no connection at all with being a student at an "institute of learning" :). Unless they've changed, school catalogs and websites will give you some insights into what really might be a better system to consider based on your stated intent.

Louis

Out of curiosity...how much cash are planning on laying out for this "school system"?

Edited by hamluis, 12 August 2012 - 01:07 PM.


#6 DJBPace07

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:32 PM

I would like to point out that there is almost no way for Intel or AMD to determine if you've used one of their heatsinks or not. I don't overclock and use an aftermarket cooler, not to keep temps down, but for noise as the coolers included with the CPU tend to be loud. In fact, for systems I personally use, I've never used the included heatsinks due to noise. Until AMD or Intel make a quality 120mm fan that is quiet, I'm going to keep doing this. It is very difficult to break a CPU during the fan installation, you're more likely to damage the motherboard or the CPU pins. I have an FX-8150 CPU and did use the stock cooler until my aftermarket cooler came in from backorder. It was loud, kept the CPU hot, and was far from excellent even in a full ATX case with six fans. I currently use the XIGMATEK Gaia SD1283 120mm, well, a very close variant of it by the same company. Frankly, I think AMD uses the same heatsinks from years ago, so long as they keep the CPU under the maximum level of heat.

Speaking as someone who graduated college about three years I can safely say there are pros and cons to laptops and desktops in school. For laptops, you get mobility, but unless you cart it to class (Which, depending on the school, may not be practical) or do homework outside your room when your roommate is busy, isn't that big of a deal. A desktop is less likely to be stolen and you can upgrade it later on.

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#7 Bill_Bright

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:06 PM

I would like to point out that there is almost no way for Intel or AMD to determine if you've used one of their heatsinks or not.

That is very true. But understand, for them to not know, it would mean you attempted to get a replacement without telling them - that is, without telling them the whole truth. That is deceit and when done for personal gain, is fraud - a criminal offense. So I sincerely hope you are not suggesting users pretend something didn't happen when they know that is not true - just because they likely can get away with it.

Overclocking voids the warranties too and that would be hard to prove as well. But it is still fraud if you burn up your CPU then conveniently forget to tell AMD or Intel you OCed and used an aftermarket cooler.

Please note, just to address the potential for possible fraud I specifically said in my first post for this very reason,

That may not be a concern for many enthusiasts, and that's okay if they understand the circumstances of their actions - and don't try to defraud Intel or AMD should something go wrong

.

And as for noise, it is also a case's responsibility to help suppress noise. But if you want to replace your OEM coolers to reduce noise, that's fine. But don't imply that OEM fans are noisier than all aftermarket fans, for they are not. And to the comment that AMD has been using the same heatsink for years - well, sorry, but that's obviously not true.

It is very difficult to break a CPU during the fan installation

I never said or implied it was. Regardless, that has no bearing on OEM vs 3rd party and is no justification to use an aftermarket cooler. HOWEVER, I disagree with your statement anyway and note it IS during HSF installation when CPUs ARE often damaged by the less experienced so that point is not valid either.

Just because you can get away with something does not make it right.

kIbxonF.gif Bill (AFE7Ret)
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#8 DJBPace07

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:02 PM

The only way I can think of someone would physically break a CPU would be applying too much pressure while locking down the HSF on AMD boards. You have to apply a large amount of pressure to get the lever down all the way. There is always the possibility of breaking pins, but if you're careful and don't remove the CPU from the box until you're ready, you have nothing to worry about. Same thing with static. Never force anything with a CPU, they are ZIF for a reason. Breaking a CPU is very rare, I've never heard of anyone actually doing this.

I believe the crux of this whole discussion is this: Be careful if you use an aftermarket cooler. Chances are nothing will go wrong during installation, but if you don't do your research and go too fast and break it, it's on your shoulders. You're just as likely to break the CPU with a stock HSF, but you are covered under the warranty. If you use an aftermarket cooler and somehow manage to break the CPU, you're in a bit of a moral dilemma since you did break the warranty but they cannot prove you did.

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#9 Bill_Bright

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:37 AM

The only way I can think of someone would physically break a CPU would be applying too much pressure while locking down the HSF on AMD boards.

I SAY AGAIN - I HAVE NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT DAMAGE DURING INSTALLATION!!! I have made ZERO reference to the user breaking anything during installation. In fact, I have made ZERO comments about cooler "installation" at all! So PLEASE stop harping about that. The "installation process" has nothing to do with the price of rice in China in the summertime, or this discussion of voiding warranties. You are making a big deal about damaging the CPU during installation, and arguing with me about this and it is not even my policy!!!!! It is AMDs and Intels, as I illustrated with links to their warranties.

I believe the crux of this whole discussion is this: Be careful if you use an aftermarket cooler.

No! That is incorrect. The crux is this: Using an aftermarket cooler on a "boxed retail" AMD or Intel CPU voids the warranty. That is the point - so PLEASE, ONCE AGAIN, stop harping about damage during the installation. That has no bearing on this discussion.

Whether a user decides to use the OEM or aftermarket cooler after they are aware of the consequences is it up to them. Not me, or not you. I am just ensuring the users have the information to make an informed decision. You seem intent on ensuring users have only the information you want them to know. I fail to see the point of that, except to obfuscate the issue.

The facts are this:
  • The use of aftermarket coolers voids the warranties (for boxed retail CPUs that come packaged with coolers),
  • You must be careful regardless the cooler you use,
  • Personal gains under false pretenses (including omitting known facts) is fraud - a criminal offense.
If you want to argue point 1, take it up with Intel and AMD.
If you want to argue point 2, please start a new thread and stop running this one OT.
If you want to argue point 3, please see a lawyer.

kIbxonF.gif Bill (AFE7Ret)
Freedom is NOT Free!
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Heat is the bane of all electronics!
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#10 ranchhand_

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 11:57 AM

I like your choice of case.. I have been using Apevia X-Dreamer and other cases for years. Having a CPU temp LCD readout is really nice. If any of the lights or the temp readout fail after a few years, just call Apevia and they will send you what you need, the prices are quite reasonable.

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#11 Bill_Bright

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 01:19 PM

Having a CPU temp LCD readout is really nice

It is. But note it requires you to look away from your monitors to see it. With a program like CoreTemp, your CPU temps are displayed in your System Tray, right next to your clock. Since I expect my cases to site quietly and discretely (with no distracting flashy lights or jet-engine fan noises) off to the side, and NOT draw attention to themselves - so I can pay attention to what's happening on my monitors. That's one reason I like that Antec Three Hundred. It is not fancy or flashy, but is well made, will not shred your knuckles along jagged sheet metal edges, has lots of good fan support, and removable washable air filters.

Also, since most (? I think most) tower users have their towers sitting on, or near the floor, I like the top placement of the ports and switches on the Antec. The Apevia has them in the middle which is not bad. Some cases have them right near the bottom - which at my age is a real pain to get down on my hands and knees to see.

If any of the lights or the temp readout fail after a few years, just call Apevia and they will send you what you need

IMO, the way a company supports their products and customers AFTER the sale says a lot about the company. That kind of support with Apevia is good to know! :)

kIbxonF.gif Bill (AFE7Ret)
Freedom is NOT Free!
fl3leAE.gifWindows and Devices for IT, 2007 - 2018
Heat is the bane of all electronics!
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