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System shutting down automatically


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#1 radxx

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 02:58 PM

I'm sure there's other unfortunates with similar issues but I hope you guys can help!

I'm trying to run an ACER Veriton m464 with Windows Vista Business

*********************************************
HERE IS THE FULL SPECS FROM THE MANUFACTURER:

Processor
Processor family

Intel Core 2 Duo
L2 Cache
3 MB
Processor front side bus
1066 MHz
Chipset
nVIDIA® GeForce® 7050 / nForce® 630i
Processor Model
E7300
Processor Clock Speed
2660 MHz
Memory
Memory Clock Speed

667 MHz
Maximum internal memory
4 GB
Internal memory type
DDR2
Internal memory
2048 MB
Storage media
Card reader integrated

N
Disk drive
Total Storage Capacity

640 GB
Hard disk interface
Serial ATA II
Video
Graphic adapter

NVIDIA GeForce 7
Audio
Audio Channels

7.1
Audio System
Realtek ALC888S
Optical Drive
Optical drive type

DVD-RW
Display
Display included

N
Operating system/software
Optional operating system supplied

Windows XP Professional
Operating system provided
Windows Vista Business Edition
Bundled software
Acer Empowering Technology Lite,<BR>LANScope Lite,<BR>Adobe® Reader®,<BR>Cyberlink® PowerDVD,<BR>NTI CD-Maker Gold
Connectivity
VGA (D-Sub) ports quantity

1
Microphone, line-in jack
Y
Speaker/ headphone/ line-out jack
1
Ethernet LAN (RJ-45) ports quantity
1
USB 2.0 ports quantity
8
PS/2 ports quantity
2
Serial ports quantity
1
Parallel ports quantity
0
Expansion slots
PCI Express x1 slots

1
PCI Express x16 slots
1
PCI 32-bit/33 MHz slots
2
Networking
Cabling technology

10/100/1000 base TX
Weight & dimensions
Depth

455 mm
Width
183 mm
Height
370 mm
Certificates
Certification

CE, FCC, BSMI, CCC, ETL, Nemko, UL, cUL
Technical details
Drive bays

2 x 5.25", 6 x 3.5"
Chassis type
Mini tower
*********************************************

HERE IS THE PROBLEM

A few months ago my desktop started to shut off when trying to view some photos I'd taken and saved to an SD card. Weird, right? JPEGs shutting down a PC?!
Any way after steering clear of doing this particular thing for a short while the PC started to shut down when booting up for the first time in the morning. After trying a few times to simply switch it on it eventually got to the desktop. The problem progressed to the point where windows would ask me if I wanted to run the recommended system restore thing when booting up, which I did and again eventually this got to the desktop. Now although the system was usable it still worried me that it was in such a fragile state.

So I looked online into doing system scans, registry checks, virus/spyware/adware/malware scans, HDD defrag, error checking, disk cleanup: they all turned out clean! I read up on some Hotfixes via the microsoft Knowledge Base and other advice given via microsoft help etc. The PC ran SLIGHTLY better but still the shutting down occurred.
So I bit the bullet to restore windows to the factory default. The system came with recovery DVDs but I was advised to make a copy when I first set up the PC out of the box.

I TRIED BOTH SETS OF DISCS INDIVIDUALLY

The results were mixed. The system stays powered UP when doing most of these system style things (the DOS style screens and BIOS). They succeeded in going through the steps of the format and installations (the discs I made did not work the same as the ones shipped with the PC - they made the PC shut down at different points!), but have not rectified the shutting down issue.

THIS IS THE MAIN REASON FOR THIS POST - PLEASE HELP GET MY PC BACK TO ITS USUAL SELF.

But on top of this the recovery process has reverted the OS from Vista Business 32bit back to a version of XP. I've spoken to live chat help and messaged the customer support and all I got was an offer to buy the OS upgrade for £50!! No help with the power issue at all! :(
So I've come to you guys as today it's reached a point where the Windows loading screen is as far as my PC can reach before shutting down. It even sometimes only manages a second or two before losing power.

What kinda issue am I looking at here?? I'm using a laptop to post this. As it's hard but not impossible to use the other PC so bear with me if you ask me to undertake any tasks/checks on that system.

Please find the time to help me if you can as this system is only about 18 months old! And has had no other major worries

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#2 the_patriot11

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:49 PM

have you tried downloading and running any sort of system monitoring software to monitor the temperature of the system and CPU? overheating can cause random shut downs.

picard5.jpg

 

Primary system: Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 945, Memory: 16 gigs of Patriot G2 DDR3 1600, Video: AMD Sapphire Nitro R9 380, Storage: 1 WD 500 gig HD, 1 Hitachi 500 gig HD, and Power supply: Coolermaster 750 watt, OS: Windows 10 64 bit. 

Media Center: Motherboard: Gigabyte mp61p-S3, Processor: AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+, Memory: 6 gigs Patriot DDR2 800, Video: Gigabyte GeForce GT730, Storage: 500 gig Hitachi, PSU: Seasonic M1211 620W full modular, OS: Windows 10.

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#3 radxx

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 02:15 AM

No I haven't, but I have watched the page of the BIOS and saw no change that would cause me concern. Would the V and temp. change SO much in a few seconds to shut down?
Is there a particular one that you recommend? As I mentioned it's a big job to get the PC up & running okay

#4 AustrAlien

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 02:43 AM

... I have watched the page of the BIOS and saw no change that would cause me concern.

Please report the actual temperature (range) and voltages (ranges) that you are seeing in the BIOS screen.

You asked: "Would the V and temp. change SO much in a few seconds to shut down?"
Yes it is quite possible that the CPU temperature can "sky-rocket" under load (attempting to start Windows) ... especially if by some means (eg. broken plastic clips?) the heatsink has become loose and is no longer making good contact (and therefore little heat transference) with the CPU.

Switch all power OFF! Open up the box: Gently try to move the fan/heatsink over the CPU. Does it move easily? Is it loose?

Edited by AustrAlien, 05 August 2012 - 02:48 AM.

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#5 radxx

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:29 AM

I've did that a couple of weeks ago. I cleaned out any accumalted fluff/dust and checked the connections of the heatsink and RAM etc. All was fine! Jus to update on the temps this is what I observed from the BIOS monitoring this morning:

CHIPSET VOLTAGE
V3.3 3.344
V5 4.972
V12 12.032
5VSB 5.053
VOLTAGE BATTERY 3.088

CPU TEMP 25 C WHICH CHANGED TO 31C AFTER 2 HRS OF CONSTANT POWER (OBVIOUSLY IN BIOS SYSTEM WAS NOT UNDER ANY KIND OF STRAIN)
SYSTEM TEMP 31C WHICH CHANGED TO 42C AFTER 2 HRS
FAN SPEED 1290 RPM (VARIED A FEW RPMS)

No idea if this helps.

After the 2hrs detailed above I tried to reboot - it shut off again, so I tried booting into safe mode via the boot menu and from there I opened msconfig and deselected all startup and service items and restarted the system.
It got the desktop FIRST try!!

I could go through the list one at a time and find out what stops the system starting up, but what do I do if its an important file? I've already restored the important files via recovery discs and LOST win Vista in the process!!

#6 rectangleeye

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:27 AM

I would remove the heatsink/fan assembly and replace the thermal compound on the CPU if it looks a little crusty, also like the previous poster indicated, check the heatsink/fan assembly and see if it is loose, not just the connections but the assembly itself, even if it isn't it would be a good idea to remove and reattach it. follow these instructions to replace thermal compound.

#7 radxx

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 03:47 AM

Okay, here's an update for anyone interested in giving help/advice

I set up 2 monitoring apps and kept watch: whilst I played games, ran media player, used internet and scanned through the pc's contents, the temp never rose above 40C, but stayed in the low 30's most of the time. I did a search and found quotes from AMD and Intel stating that their cpu's are designed to have a max operating temp @ 80C !! So surely both these facts: the quote AND the physical evidence rules out over-heating processor!?

I got Windows Update Software to upgrade XP to SP3 and install a bunch of updates, rebooting successfully each time I was prompted to do so.

BUT....

9am this morning & the system's struggling to stay powered on long enough to reach the XP loading screen!! So it doesn't seem like startup/services were the culprit after all :-S

WHAT IS GOING ON??
When it DOES load it works fine and can be rebooted over and over without showing signs of the problem!?
Only thing I can think of is the PSU, but with this set up not being old at all how could the PSU be worn out already??

#8 AustrAlien

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 05:22 AM

WHAT IS GOING ON??

You're puzzled! I am puzzled too!

The PSU is a prime suspect given what is happening. A failing PSU can do very strange things to a system, and can be very hard to diagnose definitively as THE problem in some cases. Do you happen to have another that meets the requirements that you could swap to test the system? It may be that you have to take the plunge at some stage and purchase a new PSU ... and take the risk that it may turn out to be not the problem after all?

Admittedly, the case for pursuing an overheating CPU is looking rather weak at this stage.

You wrote: "... this system is only about 18 months old!"
Any chance that it is still under warranty of some sort?

Edited by AustrAlien, 06 August 2012 - 05:23 AM.

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#9 radxx

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 09:21 AM

I agree that the PSU seems to be my next port of call. UNfortunately I have a hand made PC that had a new PSU fitted towards the end of it's life - it was having the same shutting down problems (that system ended up needing a new graphics card which had failed due to a power surge during a storm! I bought a new upgraded Graphics card but never fitted it cos we decided to buy a new system). I'm hoping this PC is going the same as the graphics is ONBOARD!
I will try swapping the PSUs if it has the same power rating and report back. Hopefully it won't short circuit!!

#10 rectangleeye

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 06:31 PM

If it is a newer system and the PSU has failed, there is a good possibility it was affected by a power surge, if that is the case, there could be more issues inside the PC. Usually if the motherboard is damaged you will see that some of the capacitors are damaged. here is an interesting wiki on that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
Best of luck

#11 radxx

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:27 AM

@ rectangleeye: I have replaced with a PSU with a higher MAX load than the one already installed and upon the initial boot it went straight to the desktop!! Hooray! But wait there's more...
I turned the system off for about an hour and then tried again and it failed to get much further than the POST/BIOS.
So as not to mess with the NEW PSU I swapped back to the original PSU, and have taken a couple of photos of capacitors on the motherboard. After reading the wiki u mentioned I'm a bit wary of what I can see. There seems to be a CAP sitting askew of the board BUT is still firmly soldered into place (PIC 1)
And in the other pic there seems to be a CAP that has expanded slightly and possibly leaked! According to the wiki leaked capacitor fluid is WET and NOT dry. Dry residue is more than likely to be darkened glue. There was dry residue on the top of the CAP, a bit fell off easily when I touched it!

Do you think either of these photos show proof of my mainboard being the culprit of my loss of power problem!?
Attached File  PIC_1040.JPG   175.95KB   5 downloads
Attached File  PIC_1042.JPG   120.79KB   7 downloads

#12 the_patriot11

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:09 AM

the fluid inside capacitors, will dry, and when it does leaves kind of a light/darkish brown residue. Its hard to tell from those photos, but the two in the second photo appear to have something on them, but I cant tell if its leaked fluid or just. Does it come off when hit with canned air? all the ones in the first photo look fine, even at odd angles-their sometimes even installed that way.

picard5.jpg

 

Primary system: Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 945, Memory: 16 gigs of Patriot G2 DDR3 1600, Video: AMD Sapphire Nitro R9 380, Storage: 1 WD 500 gig HD, 1 Hitachi 500 gig HD, and Power supply: Coolermaster 750 watt, OS: Windows 10 64 bit. 

Media Center: Motherboard: Gigabyte mp61p-S3, Processor: AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+, Memory: 6 gigs Patriot DDR2 800, Video: Gigabyte GeForce GT730, Storage: 500 gig Hitachi, PSU: Seasonic M1211 620W full modular, OS: Windows 10.

If I don't reply within 24 hours of your reply, feel free to send me a pm.


#13 radxx

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 01:23 PM

The pic with the two capacitors on it shows that they're slightly concave and the light brown residue, on the cap on the right side of the photo, came off with the slightest touch.
The photo with the angled capacitor in the middle shows that all but the one on the far right are also concave slightly.

I really do not want the outlay of a new system considering how new this one is.
I'm okay with soldering if you think replacing any of the capacitors is a good idea. Doing a bad job replacing the caps is not something I think I would do but I want to be sure that this is gonna be the thing to fix the PC. Solder work seems drastic!

#14 the_patriot11

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 01:37 PM

Concave is ok, its bulging you need to worry about. You can try replacing the two in the bottom photo but im not convinced thats the problem. have u taken out the board and checked for any burn marks on the back of the board?

picard5.jpg

 

Primary system: Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 945, Memory: 16 gigs of Patriot G2 DDR3 1600, Video: AMD Sapphire Nitro R9 380, Storage: 1 WD 500 gig HD, 1 Hitachi 500 gig HD, and Power supply: Coolermaster 750 watt, OS: Windows 10 64 bit. 

Media Center: Motherboard: Gigabyte mp61p-S3, Processor: AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+, Memory: 6 gigs Patriot DDR2 800, Video: Gigabyte GeForce GT730, Storage: 500 gig Hitachi, PSU: Seasonic M1211 620W full modular, OS: Windows 10.

If I don't reply within 24 hours of your reply, feel free to send me a pm.


#15 radxx

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 04:25 AM

I can see the back of the motherboard all but where it's fixed in placed. No marks.
I did a quick search on youtube for any tutorials and one of the first results mentioned in his comments that his system wouldn't boot so he looked inside, replaced a bad capacitor that hadn't leaked/burst yet and the system was back to normal!! I'd love that to be the case with mine




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