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HARD DRIVES NOT RECOGNIZED


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#1 senseless

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 07:37 PM

I am trying to fix an older computer.
It came with 2 hard drives, both 40G, a Seagate and a Samsung.
AOpen motherboard, Pentium 4, 1.7 GHz.
1G RAM

Looks like the previous owner had problems with it, and was cloning one drive to the other, etc.
Found a pill bottle with a few jumpers inside the case.
And an envelope stuffed with notes on various repair efforts.

I managed to get the Seagate working, it boots, loaded with XP Pro, SP2.
It showed in bios as the primary master, was jumpered to master, but plugged into the middle socket on the cable, an 80 connector.
The Samsung was plugged into the end socket, jumpered to slave, and showed in bios as primary slave [none].
My computer showed a C and a D drive, D was unformatted.
Cute partition software showed the D drive (samsung) as having 2 partitions, 37G and 12mb.

I started to experience some hangs, and some crashes to black.
I tried running GMER, but the scan would stall out. Not crash. Just stop at some point.
I tried booting in safe mode, and after much head-scratching, determined that USB keyboard would not access bios or boot options.
ps/2 unit worked.

Ran malwarebytes scan in safe mode, it crashed.

Now the fun part. I formatted Seagate, did a fresh install of XP Pro, and updated to SP3.
Then, tried to figure out the Samsung.
I tried every configuration of jumpers and plugs.
Seagate with OS will only boot from the middle socket of the cable, (gray), with jumper set to master.
But, I can get the bios to see the Samsung from either socket, always shows as slave, regardless of socket or jumper setting.
Seagate is not seen by bios when plugged into the end, black, socket.

When both drives were jumpered to cable select, bios recognized the Samsung on end socket.
But Seagate on middle socket only registered a single left bracket, didn't say "none".
But I could click on the drive after cursing above and below, and some of the drive properties were accurately displayed.

Needless to say, I am very confused by all this.

The system will work, with Seagate/OS drive plugged into the middle socket.

Once, I swapped out the IDE cable for an older, 40 connector, and once, I saw both drives and another partition, in my computer.
The Samsug has 2 partitions, just as Cute said.
One is about 37G, and the other, 12mb.
There were readable files and folders on the larger partition, and nothing in the 12mb.
I never saw this again, after a reboot, it reverted to showing only a C and a D drive in my computer.
The D drive being "unformatted."

Any ideas appreciated.
Is it a bios flaw?
IDE controller??

Thanks!

Edited by senseless, 19 May 2012 - 07:43 PM.


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#2 noknojon

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:10 PM

Ran malwarebytes scan in safe mode, it crashed.

Just a quick FYI -
Always try to run a Quick scan only and try it from Normal mode. Infections are often hidden in Safe mode.
Have you noted any Antivirus program running in real time yet ( you do not say) as Malwarebytes is not an Antivirus program -

Thank You -

#3 James Litten

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:22 PM

Hi

Do you have another 80 connector cable or a USB to IDE connector (which may be futile until you resolve the USB issue :) )?

As for the USB issue, have you checked the keyboard in all of the ports to see if the BIOS sees it in any of them?
Also, are there any USB settings in the BIOS that may be turning off the USB ports?

Have you tried booting from a Live Linux CD (I prefer PartedMagic because of the tools on it but there are tons to choose from)?
Speaking of CD's, does it have one? Have you tried plugging the Samsung into the cable being used by it?

Info that might help us...
Models of the drives
Model of the motherboard

James

#4 senseless

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:48 PM

Ran malwarebytes scan in safe mode, it crashed.

Just a quick FYI -
Always try to run a Quick scan only and try it from Normal mode. Infections are often hidden in Safe mode.
Have you noted any Antivirus program running in real time yet ( you do not say) as Malwarebytes is not an Antivirus program -

Thank You -


Hi and thanks for the reply.
RE the Seagate, which had (and has) the OS.
I ran avast and found nothing serious.
After GMER failed and Malwarebytes crashed, I decided to start over.
I ran Killdisk free, overwrote with zeros.
Reinstalled windows XP Pro.
Updated, (hours) to SP3.
Now windows runs fine from that drive.

I am trying to get the other drive working, the Samsung.
It is almost never recognized by the bios or OS.
I cannot scan it.
Don't think it has an OS installed.
I think the system was copied from one to the other a few times, by previous owner.

#5 senseless

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:02 PM

Hi

Do you have another 80 connector cable or a USB to IDE connector (which may be futile until you resolve the USB issue :) )?

As for the USB issue, have you checked the keyboard in all of the ports to see if the BIOS sees it in any of them?
Also, are there any USB settings in the BIOS that may be turning off the USB ports?

Have you tried booting from a Live Linux CD (I prefer PartedMagic because of the tools on it but there are tons to choose from)?
Speaking of CD's, does it have one? Have you tried plugging the Samsung into the cable being used by it?

Info that might help us...
Models of the drives
Model of the motherboard

James


Thank you for the reply

I did a fresh install of XP Pro on the Seagate drive, and it works fine now.
I am trying to get the Samsung to function.

Looking for another 80 cable.
I searched bios updates already, and see one that resolves "booting a USB..."
That might resolve the ps/2 issue, but is that a problem?
I can access bios, and boot menu fine with my ps/2 keyboard.

The bios does not recognize the Samsung...usually!
I switched sockets on same cable with Seagate.
I also switched jumpers all around.

I also plugged the ide into secondary motherboard socket.
Nothing has been constent.
Now, when i install both HD's the computer will not boot at all.

It will boot and run fine from the Seagate when it is plugged into the middle (gray) socket of the 80 cable, into the primary mobo socket, AND the samsung is unplugged.

system will also boot from ubcd5 disc, from secondary master CDRW.
But, I had to unplug secondary slave CDROM drive to make that work!

drives:
CD-R/RW SONY CRX230EE
SAMSUNG SV4002H
SEAGATE ST340014A

MOBO:
AOpen MX-46-533v

#6 senseless

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:24 PM

Hi

Do you have another 80 connector cable or a USB to IDE connector (which may be futile until you resolve the USB issue :) )?

As for the USB issue, have you checked the keyboard in all of the ports to see if the BIOS sees it in any of them?
Also, are there any USB settings in the BIOS that may be turning off the USB ports?

Have you tried booting from a Live Linux CD (I prefer PartedMagic because of the tools on it but there are tons to choose from)?
Speaking of CD's, does it have one? Have you tried plugging the Samsung into the cable being used by it?

Info that might help us...
Models of the drives
Model of the motherboard

James


ThanksJames

I do have another 80...the one feeding the opticals!
I swapped it and voila, i can see all the hard drives, and their partitions.
AND, the end plug on the first cable will not read the CDRW drive.
But, the middle plug sees it fine.
Hmmm.
I think I will just wipe the samsung.
And then i need another 80 so I can run 2 optical drives.
Wow...thanks again. too simple.

#7 James Litten

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:31 PM

Thanks for the answers :)

Part of what is confusing here is that with Cable Select on an 80 wire cable the master is at the end of the cable and on a 40 wire cable the master is in the middle of the cable (leaving the end of the cable open to reflection and ingress if no slave is present, that's why it changed with the 80 wire cable). Your setup sounds like maybe an internal break in one of the wires between the middle connection and the end connection.

I'm curious if you tried cable select on the 40 wire cable with the Seagate in the middle and the Samsung on the end. If you did what were the results.

I would advise against attempting to update the BIOS on that unless absolutely necessary.
Do you know if a USB keyboard ever work on that?

It is pretty old and if that is the original 80 wire cable (it shipped with one) then I would not be surprised if that were the problem. I've replaced many.

Also, it looks like it may have a built in restore function in the BIOS that can create a hidden partition on the disks at the BIOS level (so it would even effect a Live Linux boot). Turn that off if you can and see if that helps. Here's some docs on that...
ftp://ftp.aopen.nl/pub/manual/mb/ezrestore/ezrestore-eg-e.pdf

If I had it on my bench, I would
turn off ezrestore in the BIOS
replace the 80 wire IDE cable
see what happens then :)

Hope this helps.
James

EDIT: Oops you posted while I was typing this glad that worked

Edited by NeverSayDie, 19 May 2012 - 09:32 PM.


#8 senseless

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:29 PM

Thanks for the answers :)

Part of what is confusing here is that with Cable Select on an 80 wire cable the master is at the end of the cable and on a 40 wire cable the master is in the middle of the cable (leaving the end of the cable open to reflection and ingress if no slave is present, that's why it changed with the 80 wire cable). Your setup sounds like maybe an internal break in one of the wires between the middle connection and the end connection.

I'm curious if you tried cable select on the 40 wire cable with the Seagate in the middle and the Samsung on the end. If you did what were the results.

I would advise against attempting to update the BIOS on that unless absolutely necessary.
Do you know if a USB keyboard ever work on that?

It is pretty old and if that is the original 80 wire cable (it shipped with one) then I would not be surprised if that were the problem. I've replaced many.

Also, it looks like it may have a built in restore function in the BIOS that can create a hidden partition on the disks at the BIOS level (so it would even effect a Live Linux boot). Turn that off if you can and see if that helps. Here's some docs on that...
ftp://ftp.aopen.nl/pub/manual/mb/ezrestore/ezrestore-eg-e.pdf

If I had it on my bench, I would
turn off ezrestore in the BIOS
replace the 80 wire IDE cable
see what happens then :)

Hope this helps.
James

EDIT: Oops you posted while I was typing this glad that worked


I don't remember what happened with the 40 and cable select, but it must have been no good, or I would have left it there.
I might try again for info.

Keyboard problem solved.

in Bios
integrated peripherals/sis onchip PCI device/USB keyboard support/enable

Duh. It worked!

ezrestore is disabled.

I'm preparing the machine for a 12YO that plays some games. Minecraft is one.
Any suggestions for best use of 2x40G hard drives?
Thanks again!

#9 James Litten

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 11:39 PM

Hi

Sounds like you know what you're doing. Glad it's working out.

Two 40GB running XP for a 12YO...

I'd make the system all setup on one drive with all OS updates, any parental blocks you feel are appropriate and a virus scanner like Microsoft Security Essentials.
Then I'd clone it to the other hard drive, pull it out and put it away.

If they mess up the machine or it gets super cluttered, they can copy any important pictures, gamesaves or files to a USB key and you can restore it back to the starting state by simply swapping drives. If the first drive isn't broken, clone again, wash, rinse repeat :)

I've had success doing this with Clonezilla for my 5YO. I have a ton of parental blocks on it and I know it would take me hours to redo it from scratch.

Clonezilla is free but it is not real user friendly if you're not used to Linux console apps. There are lots of tutorials though.

If they need more space down the road, you can throw in a cheap 250GB as a second drive.

James

#10 senseless

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 06:53 AM

Hardly know what I'm doing!
I was tapping F8 and DEL for way too many boots before I had the brainstorm of trying PS/2.
That sounds smart, RE the 2 drives...I just finished with the Dell that he used before, no parental blocks, I decided to format and reinstall. Now it's off-limits.

Thanks again.
Done here.




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