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Evolution Vs Creationism What Do You Believe?


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#1 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:18 AM

I figured this would be a good topic to start. I will also add a poll once this topic gets approved.
So what do you believe is real?

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#2 AL...

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 04:08 AM

Well I usually side with "science" unless it's got "ology" after it. :thumbsup:
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#3 jgweed

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 12:37 PM

I really think you need to define the terms here, especially "belief" which is generally applied to matters of faith instead of matters of science. The early history of thought is viewed as about science seeking a rational explanation for the world as opposed to a cosmological one, beginning with the pre-Sokratics. One does not, for example, believe in the atomic table of elements.
So, too, with the word "real" since belief is "real" and so is a stone and so is the theory of evolution. It is a category mistake, perhaps, to use "real" in all of these senses when one really means something else.
As expressed in the question,to put it another way, there is really no nexus for discussion between science and what I suppose is to be a view founded on religion, since dogmatic belief or apologetics and rational explanation are grounded in two very disparate types of thought, and operate in entirely different human horizons. De gustibus non est disputandum.
Lastly, the use of versus begs the question of whether the two views are, or need be, antagonistic, especially if they operate in entirely different sectors of our human lives. Only if one takes rather extreme, simplistic, and reductionist views of one or more of the two, will mutually exclusive choices be evident.

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Edited by jgweed, 26 February 2006 - 04:02 PM.

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#4 medab1

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 03:57 PM

I figured this would be a good topic to start. I will also add a poll once this topic gets approved.
So what do you believe is real?


I have been thinking about this for a time after watching Discovery Channel programs on dinosaurs & such.

The last mass extinction seems to be 65 million years ago.

There seems to be a dispute about whether evolution takes a long time or there can be sudden changes.


What I have found remarkable is the lack of missing links.

And the apparent unchanging of species after millions of years,like the shark or coelacanth.

And the difference in humans in general.
Why are there "whites" & "asians" & "blacks",etc.

Evolution seems lacking.

Creationism is lacking ANY proof what-so-ever.

You can breed a different variation of animal or plant.

I think the real question is,"Where did all things come from?".

Is there a begining or end to everything?

Is the concept of infinity valid?

There are no answers,as yet.

Just questions...

Seeking the answers is something we humans need to do.

Constantly...

Just my thoughts on the subject...

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#5 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 05:23 PM

I have been thinking about this for a time after watching Discovery Channel programs on dinosaurs & such.


I don't trust a lot of what the discovery channel says. They did an entire series about what an alien planet is like... They had fancy computer animation, a whole story, the worx. The funny part is that they have no idea what a planet that contains alien life is actually like.... they presented something as "extremely likely" without there being evidence to back it up...

The last mass extinction seems to be 65 million years ago.

There seems to be a dispute about whether evolution takes a long time or there can be sudden changes.


There are different "forms" of evolution, and different ideas surrounding the different flavors. Some evolution takes place within just a couple of years (microevolution, look at viruses and bacteria) while some take thousands, and some take millions (as observed through the fossil records).


What I have found remarkable is the lack of missing links.

And the apparent unchanging of species after millions of years,like the shark or coelacanth.

And the difference in humans in general.
Why are there "whites" & "asians" & "blacks",etc.


Considering the earth has been around for billions of years, it's an extremely small chance that humans will know the origins/beginnings of the planet and life itself within the time that it has been studied (if at all....)

Evolution seems lacking.

Creationism is lacking ANY proof what-so-ever.


Take away the any holy text, and evolution is the only idea that can stand on it's own. Without the pre-written texts, the only "evidence" the majority of the other "theories" have is the lack of support for evolution.

I think the real question is,"Where did all things come from?".

Is there a begining or end to everything?

Is the concept of infinity valid?

That's a whole nother subject entirely. The questions of "where did life come from" or "how is life the way it is" is completely different from "where did everything start". I seriously doubt humans will EVER know where "existance" came from or where it's going. Infinity is too complex a concept to be narrowed down to a single or a few answers.

I personally "believe" in evolution (if, for some really odd reason, everyone here didn't know about already...) It contains the most logical explanations for why things are the way they are, with enough weight to back them up.

Edited by Heretic Monkey, 26 February 2006 - 05:25 PM.


#6 yano

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 05:44 PM

I believe there is a higher being that created everything you see, however, I don't believe we evolved from the chimp/ape whatever. If we did, then how come it all of a sudden stopped? Shouldn't we be seeing people walking out of the rain forest?

#7 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 07:03 PM

I believe there is a higher being that created everything you see, however, I don't believe we evolved from the chimp/ape whatever. If we did, then how come it all of a sudden stopped? Shouldn't we be seeing people walking out of the rain forest?

There are still millions of people "in the brush" of foreign countries. Look at all the tribes still thriving in africa and australia, without even a hint of technology.

Evolution hasn't stopped. Evolution is still occuring on the microscopic level (viruses), and i'm sure humans (as well as other species) have been evolving slightly. Look at the average in height over the last couple hundred years. Lincoln was considered a giant in his day, and he was only like 6'3". Evolution isn't something extremely noticeable in a single life-time.

However, slight changes in species can be observed. Look at the pepper moths in england. When the industrial era hit, they changed from white to an ashy color.... the white ones were quickly spotted and eaten by predators, while the gray ones were allowed to thrive.

Edited by Heretic Monkey, 27 February 2006 - 07:05 PM.


#8 yano

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 07:11 PM

There are still millions of people "in the brush" of foreign countries. Look at all the tribes still thriving in africa and australia, without even a hint of technology.

Your are missing my point.

I know there are many millions of people in Africa and other countries that don't know of the new technologies. However what I'm getting at is. Those people didn't just walk out of the forest. If they did then that would prove mewrong. But my point is that, they have been there for a long time.

I want to know if man is still evolving from the ape... not if man is evolving into "future man."

#9 t3s

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 07:20 PM

I believe that evolution has simply slowed down do to the fact that there is not too much to physcially change anymore.

Every generation, generaly, gains more knowledge then the past generations. We are evolving self-conciously. I'm willing to bet that if we traveled back several generations, they had a completely bifferent way of thinking (not just in what they believed in but how they think, the order in which there brain concieves things, etc).

All in all, I agree with Science. I have absolutely no beliefe in "GOD" but I do often wonder how it all began.

This may also be a bit off the wall but I have been forming my own theory about how maybe the stars etc are simply the atoms/cells of another larger being. Maybe we are all simply subatomic particles when looked at in their micro-scopes?

P.S. - It may be usless to state but.... I sware im not insane! :thumbsup:

Edited by WlkingMan, 27 February 2006 - 07:21 PM.


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#10 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 07:21 PM

I want to know if man is still evolving from the ape... not if man is evolving into "future man."

I don't know if apes are still evolving into more human forms or not, but chimps are showing advancements. They have been shown to think logically, create tools, and have the ability to become self-aware. The challenge in your question is that you're asking about something that has already happened. Evolution caused humans to break off from ancestors in one way, while other ape species went in other directions.

#11 t3s

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 07:29 PM

For instance: Maybe the old "Apes" Became more hardy, while we became physically weaker, but mentally stronger.


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#12 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 08:03 PM

I believe that evolution has simply slowed down do to the fact that there is not too much to physcially change anymore.

A major factor of that is technology. With all the crap we have today to keep ourselves well (such as medicine and medical techniques) and keep ourselves satisfied (we buy all our food from stores now). Humans as a species don't have much need for change, other than intelligence. I'm not sure if humans have evolved to hold information and knowledge better as time has passed, but intelligence is probably the strongest characteristic humans have over every other species.

Humans have become too dependent on other people to do work for them, so we really have no incentive to become more than we are now.

#13 t3s

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 08:13 PM

Hence the reason why a new Ice Age will likely be the end, or new begining, of our species.

We, as humans, will not be able to cope with the drastic changes. Most, if not all, of us will likely die, and those who are left will have to start over (In which will be hard indeed when they realize they have to do everything on their own, and from scratch).


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#14 BlackSpyder

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 06:51 PM

My belief is that a supreme being exists (God, Allah, Shiva, Budda, The Great White Buffalo, call them what you will). And I beleive he started the process. You know pulled the cord on the LawnMower which is our world and sent it spinning. After that I'd say that we didnt actually evolve as we adapted. Have you ever notices how the darker a persons skin color is on the Discovery Channel is almost related to the type of climate and amount of sunlight they were subjected to in their "root" country. I mean the people from the Alps are generally fairer skinned then Arabians are in their desert climate.

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#15 t3s

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 06:55 PM

Just to let you know.... Evolution is just a long process of adapting. You just restated the definition of evolution. :thumbsup:

But here is a question (rhetorical at best): Where did the higher being come from? As well as his originating source? etc?


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