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Treyvon Martin


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#1 Sani-T-Capt1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:00 AM

What do you think of the events regarding the shooting death of 17 year old Treyvon Martin by an armed self-appointed community watch member? I have heard the tapes of Zimmerman being repeatedly told NOT to follow young Martin, yet he totally disregarded the instructions of the Sanford PD dispatcher and unless you have been hiding under a rock for the last couple of months should be aware of the outcome of his(Zimmerman) decision to take matters in his own hands. Any thoughts on this? Inquiring minds wants to know

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#2 the_patriot11

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:30 PM

I think the whole story isnt being told, I just read in the news today how the recorded call between zimmerman and the police was edited and it edited out certain parts. Like for example, the clip made it sound like zimmerman brought up the fact that the kid was black-when in reality, (and releasing of the full clip proves it) he was responding to a question by the dispatcher. In all honesty, from the information I am seeing I think it was a misunderstanding-the guy saw the kid, thought he was up to no good and followed him with only the intent to follow (despite instructions from the police) and the kid, not realizing he was neighborhood watch, thought his life was in danger, and instead of calling the cops did indeed confront and attack zimmerman thinking he was protecting himself and the rest we know. Sad story, but I dont think its anywhere near the "hate crime" everyones playing it out to be. Now, that may not have been what happened, but I dont think all the details have been released yet, and Im not going to pass judgement until they are because we dont know the full story.

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#3 Sani-T-Capt1

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:42 PM

I'm not implying it is a hate crime, let others go crazy with that the_patriot11. There are a lot of disturbing facts that are coming out of Sanford that just isn't holding up to Zimmerman and the Sanford PD's tale either. I actually had some poll questions attached to this topic but I guess they weren't allowed. Be that as it may, I find the two women who disclosed their names and described the events of that night more credible than the entire Sanford PD, especially since they(Sanford PD) are saying that Zimmerman was attacked, punched and head banged repeatedly against a curb when the station-house video camera showed no indication of even a bruise on Zimmerman, nor any psychological distress which surely would be evident after a traumatic experience. This coupled with the doctored police report of that night would indicate that there is a cover-up going on there.

edited for addendum:

Addendum: Do you have a link to that news story that states that the calls between Zimmerman and the dispatcher were edited? If so can you provide them? Thanks

Edited by Sani-T-Capt1, 08 April 2012 - 02:44 PM.

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#4 groovicus

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:05 PM

The calls were not edited. Portions of the call were edited and aired on NBC in such a way to portray Zimmerman as a vigilante.
http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/5378181-Source-NBC-producer-fired-over-editing-Zimmerman-911-call/

#5 Sani-T-Capt1

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:26 PM

Thank you Groovicus, I heard the full version long ago, :thumbup2: so I thought Patriot11 was talking about something new.
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#6 groovicus

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:52 PM

So just for the sake of discussion; how do you know you heard the full version of the tapes? I heard a portion of what was purported to be unedited, but unless I hear the conversation directly, color me skeptical.

Edited by groovicus, 08 April 2012 - 04:00 PM.


#7 Sani-T-Capt1

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:08 PM

You're very argumentative :hysterical: :hysterical: All jokes aside, I don't profess to have heard the entire tape, I don't think that will be released until if and when there is a trial. I was referring to the unedited NBC version, in which there was back and forth interaction between the dispatcher and Zimmerman in which he was repeatedly told to stand down and stop following the "suspicious" person.

This is what has so many people in an uproar not only in America but across the ocean as well. This is why, since we have such a diverse community I posed the topic in the first place. Certainly there are more questions, and supposition than there are answers. The main question being, why wasn't Zimmerman arrested and allowed to leave with his firearm? They take police officers' firearms used in shootings and my wife had her's seized pending an investigation (she was a C.O. then)when she walked in on a burglar in our backyard.

Edited by Sani-T-Capt1, 08 April 2012 - 04:09 PM.

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#8 elmongo2

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:59 PM

Well looking at the Big Picture you dont really know exactly what went down. There's so many conflicting reports in the media. That is why I see a real problem with why courts have not acted in this case. A court of law needs to determine if any laws were broken, which I dont see happening. Even when a cop shoots and kills a suspect in self-defense they take the cop's gun and launch a full-scale investigation.
People do dumb things. And I'm not talking about paying too much for car insurance either.

#9 the_patriot11

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 06:12 PM

The calls were not edited. Portions of the call were edited and aired on NBC in such a way to portray Zimmerman as a vigilante.
http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/5378181-Source-NBC-producer-fired-over-editing-Zimmerman-911-call/


Thats what I was refering to groovicus, I didnt mean to imply the police edited it. I should have specified, my bad. But what I was saying is I still dont think the full story is out-I dont think anyone is trying to really cover much of anything up, but there is a lot unexplaned and a lot of different/conflicting accounts to be exactly sure what happened. Even the scenario I listed is only a mere possibility. That is what I was getting at, to many unanswered questions at this point for me to formulate a opinion yet.

Edited by the_patriot11, 08 April 2012 - 06:13 PM.

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#10 Sani-T-Capt1

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:58 PM

While I have not formed an opinion as to guilt or innocence, I do think that if the roles were reverse, Martin would have been arrested PENDING an outcome of a full scale investigation. I would also like to ask at this time several questions of those whom wish to respond. At which point did it become a point of "Stand your ground" defense? You see/hear a person in contact with the police dispatcher who tells Zimmerman to cease following the "suspicious" person and yet he still does. Zimmerman, an unknown to Treyvon actually exits his car to accost/question(?) him so who is the aggressor? Two witnesses come forward and on national TV state that they saw Zimmerman standing over the prone, faced down body of Treyvon so how does the stand your ground defense even come into play?

Next question: If you were coming from a store, minding your own business and see someone unknown following you in a car and that person exits that vehicle towards you, how would you respond?

Final question at this juncture (trust me I have more): How would you feel if that were your son/daughter that this happened to, same circumstances and all?
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#11 the_patriot11

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:47 PM

On one hand, the police did tell the guy to back off-thats the hard truth and he should have. On the other note, any detective will tell you this, eye witnesses are horrible. And if their both telling the exact same story chances are their lying. Everyone sees things a bit different, so its normal to get different, even conflicting accounts. I still say its entirely possible that the guy disobeyed the polices orders, which he shouldnt have and gotten out of the car, and the guy-whether he was up to no good or honestly thought he was in danger, attacked the guy, though maybe not to the degree that was stated, and the witnesses who saw it from an angle didnt get the full picture, and when the cops showed up the shooter exaggerated the account. with that in mind, the guy was technically still in the wrong but it still puts it at just one of those things that happened, I doubt it was a planned murder or even anything racial, and I can see why they didnt arrest him-at the time there wasnt enough evidence to suggest anything different and he wasnt a flight risk. Time has already proven that, he hasnt left the country. Should he be punished for it? thats up to a jury of his pears, and I sincerely hope they have the presence of mind to give him a fair trial and not let all the media and political pressure sway their opinion.

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#12 groovicus

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:34 AM

Just for clarification, dispatchers are not 'police' in the sense that they can give orders. They might not even be police at all. They may just be civilians. Regardless, the caller has no idea who is on the other end of the 911 call, and it certainly is not illegal to follow someone. The entire point is irrelevant though because, if the tapes are to be believed, Zimmerman was told 'we don't need you to do that'. That is not an order, or even a suggestion. And he was not repeatedly told to 'stand down'.

As far as why Zimmerman wasn't arrested, the law states (in part):
A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.[/i]
My guess is that were the roles reversed, Martin would not have been arrested either, because the law specifically prohibits the arrest. (citation)

So what you have is a series of unfortunate events, conflicting witness accounts, and an over-zealous media with unknown agendas. And a bunch of people who lack the ability to do critical analysis of a situation.

Edited by groovicus, 09 April 2012 - 08:51 AM.


#13 Sani-T-Capt1

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:57 AM

Take away the racial divide and you will see that a boy, maybe not in body but surely in mind was pursued, tracked, hounded, and cornered by a grown man who from his perspective had no right or authority to do so. This grown man left the comfort of his car to engage the boy. Who knows if Treyvon had even seen the gun. What would you tell your child to do? Picture that both the individuals are the same race and color. Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, European. It doesn't matter. The facts stand, Treyvon did not approach Mr.Zimmerman nor did he forcefully remove him from the car. I'm not saying that Treyvon was a helpless little 2 year old, but he was in a fight or flight situation and he chose flight and lost Mr. Zimmerman until Mr. Zimmerman caught up with him again. He felt he had no choice but to defend himself. He had no choice but to stand his ground. Mr. Zimmerman created the circumstances of his predicament, Treyvon was simply Present. Mr. Zimmerman acted, Treyvon reacted. Children are taught in schools if someone is following you do not go home, but run to the nearest house,knock on the door and ask for help. He was being followed and he was trying to lose his tail. Mr. Zimmerman asked to be called because he did not know where he would be when the authorities arrived because he intended to continue following Treyvon. He left his car to approach Treyvon after being told it was not necessary to follow him. Treyvon tried to flee the situation. Now again I ask, If this was your child how would you feel about how this thing went down?

Edited by Sani-T-Capt1, 09 April 2012 - 11:05 AM.

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#14 elmongo2

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

Your two sentences I fully agree with. As a fellow gun owner that owns one in the house for protection, I would NOT have done what he did in this situation. If he was not being threatened at all by this kid and all he was doing was walking down the street then there was NO reason for him to even get his gun in the first place! If he saw the kid doing something wrong he should have stayed indoors and called 911. I think this guy puts a really ugly mark on other gunowners in this country.
People do dumb things. And I'm not talking about paying too much for car insurance either.

#15 groovicus

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 12:34 PM

As a parent, I would be devastated. I would also probably react blindly. But since I am not his parent, I can say that nothing that any media has portrayed is an accurate picture of what transpired. Feeding on the hype from uncorroborated media reports is exactly the emotional response that the media is trying to generate. If you are a conservative, you feed off of Fox news. Liberals feed off of MSNBC. If you are a self thinker, you listen to both and realize that the truth lies somewhere in between.

I don't know what happened, and I am not going to jump to an opinion about it. Since I possess my own analytical abilities, I would have to consider the implication in that no Grand Jury will be convened in this case. In my opinion there are only two conclusions; either the evidence is so overwhelming against Zimmerman that there is no need for a Grand Jury to consider the evidence, or that there is not enough evidence on which to convict. Grand Juries are used when evidence or circumstances are in question; the lack of a Grand Jury indicates to me one extreme or another. Since I have heard nothing about Zimmerman being arrested, I would extrapolate that perhaps Zimmerman's account, corroborated by some eyewitnesses, is borne out by the evidence.

the point I am trying to make is that it is appalling to how much we allow the media to manipulate our thought.

Edited by groovicus, 09 April 2012 - 01:23 PM.





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