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#1 MissPlaced

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:13 PM


I ran across this this mornin,as I read it i thought ok, what's the problem??
and I also thought "What about seperation of church and state"??
What do you all think??
What are the implication's of this ???

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20120203/US.Birth.Control.Religious.Fight/?cid=hero_media

RESPECTFULLY

MissPlaced


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#2 the_patriot11

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:56 PM

Its just another way for our friendly communist I mean "ahem" president to assert government control where the government has absolutly no right to be in. I think birth control is something that is up to each and every person to decide what they want or dont want-and I dont think any company, religious or otherwise should be required to provide birth control, I think thats up to each individual person/couple. If a company wants to provide birth control for their employees, thats one thing but it shouldn't be required. I mean serious, if their requiring this, whats next? they going to be requiring churches, or say, pro life clinics to provide abortions?

Edited by the_patriot11, 03 February 2012 - 03:57 PM.

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#3 groovicus

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:43 PM

I'm sorry... what did our president have to do with it exactly? The 'investigation' that triggered all of this was triggered by a Republican, based on recently revised Komen internal guidelines. I don't see anywhere that Obama is a member of the board that created that policy. Komen's founder is a former Bush staffer (Nancy Brinker, Republican), and Komen's top lobbyist is a pro-life Republican. According to what I have read, it is the latter, Karen Hander, who provided the impetus for the updated internal guidelines.

so please clarify for me how that makes our President a Communist, or how he had anything to do with it?

#4 the_patriot11

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:45 PM

The Obama administration's decision requiring church-affiliated employers to cover birth control was bound to cause an uproar among Roman Catholics and members of other faiths, no matter their beliefs on contraception.

exact quote from the article. And even if he wasn't the one who initiated it-Its obvious hes in full support of it. That being said, regardless of whos behind it, its still wrong, the government shouldn't force companies to provide birth control, not religious institions or any other.

And the president being a communist was more of a personal opinion/humor thrown in, not necessarily connected or originating from this one law. I could go into details but that would be going off topic, now instead of debating the president perhaps we should debate the law itself like the thread author intended ;)

Edited by the_patriot11, 03 February 2012 - 08:46 PM.

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#5 MissPlaced

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:14 AM

I wanted to wait until today to respond so that i wasn't typing in red, I was keeping a promise to a very dear friend, and her very worthy cause, It came to my attention after I made that promise, that typing in red hurt some folks eyes.

Now onto the subject at hand...

As I said above, As I began to read that, I began to ask myself some question's like
1) What's Obama up to now??( I'm not a fan of this man,so naturally i'm always a little suspecious of his motives,I have a friend whose elderly mother call's him "O'Bozo" (Giggle)(Missplaced slap's herself and say's straighten up(Giggle)
For those of you that are fan's Of Obama,I mean no disrespect, This is just my personal Opinion of the man, We all have our opinions of Presidents past and present, and we're not gonna agree all the time.

2) At first I thought ok, so he's trying to strong arm the Health Insurance agencies,BUT WAIT i said, Don't Health Insurance Companies already cover contraceptives??( At least most of them anyway) and if that's the case what's up??...


3) What's the Roman Catholic Church getting it's nicker"s In a twist about?? Can't they just opt out, it's not like they have to use contraceptives if they don't want to..This IS America for cryin out loud...

4) Whatever happened to "Seperation of Church and State"???
Which brought me back to question #1
As I continued to read I began to wonder,

5) What's REALLY goin on here?? What are the implication's of this bill??..What Adendom's are attached???

As Mr. Groovicus pointed out, Obama Didn't write this bill.....BUT as Mr. Patroit pointed out, to coin a phrase that my Grandmother used to say.."There's a rat in the wood pile"

Which brings me to

6) What's the REAL INTENT of this bill???

This Bill very effectly get's around "Seperation of Church and State"
B)This IS a strong arm tactic *Even tho Obama didn't write it, He Stands behind it 100%* WHY???

c)What does this mean for the citzen's of our nation???

d)What else does this bill very effectively get around??(What's in the fine print??)and what are the ramifications of the fine print??

I mean this discussion/debate to encompass all sides of this issue....
I don't usually get into political debates..BUT this one has me intreged and I feel is very important,
as at it's base it effect's our personal freedom's again...

I wasn't for giving out condom's in schools...for this reason, if you give a kid a "New Toy" their gonna want to play with it right??....To me this was Idoicy in action, Did it stop teenage pregnancy's??NOPE...
Did it slow down STD's?? NOPE....

The point I'm makin here is simply this, When the federal government decides what's best for our children/
citzen's, it's NOT what's in our best interest....

SO what else is there in this bill that's NOT in our best interest as a nation???

RESPECTFULLY

MissPlaced

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#6 elmongo2

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:27 AM

I like what George Carlin said about organized religion: If they wanna get involved in politics then take away their friggin tax exemptions! Make them pay their fair share like any other lobbyist.
People do dumb things. And I'm not talking about paying too much for car insurance either.

#7 MissPlaced

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 08:08 AM

@ elmongo2,

:hysterical:

But this goes far deeper then just tax exempt statis...care to expound on you're opinion??

MissPlaced

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#8 MissPlaced

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 08:08 AM

OOOooPPPs..double post again..

Edited by MissPlaced, 04 February 2012 - 09:58 AM.


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#9 jgweed

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:27 AM

What about this instance.
A non-Catholic is employed by a Catholic organisation, say a university. Should that individual be bound by its policy against abortion?
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one should be silent.

#10 MissPlaced

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:04 AM

@ jgweed,

Good question,
My answer to that would be no,which is why i find this bill so disturbing....
We Have a right to LIBERTY,LIFE and The PERSUITE of HAPPINESS...

To me this bill does away with all of our RIGHTS...it has very effectively side stepped our right's

RESPECTFULLY

MissPlaced

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#11 elmongo2

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:12 AM

Pretty simple misplaced:

If they wanna preach from the pulpit about how Americans should behave, so be it. When they go and act as lobbyists and use the law to force their religious ways on the rest of us by influencing lawmakers to create laws to satisfy their own agendas like businesses do then yank their tax exemptions and make them pay taxes. Ever hear about Alabama's state law that bans the use of sex toys in the bedroom????
People do dumb things. And I'm not talking about paying too much for car insurance either.

#12 MissPlaced

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 02:15 PM

@ elmongo2,
Agreed in part....I'm sure you already know my stand on organized religion.....

BUT This law doesn't just cover religious organizations,it covers everybody in our nation....
I know that the articule that I posted dealt with mainely Organized religion's crying bloody murder
about this law....BUT it's we the American People that should be crying bloody murder about this law.....

The Implication's of this law as far as our freedom's go is staggering from a "Government Control" stand point.

RESPECTFULLY

MissPlaced

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#13 myrti

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 11:46 AM

IMHO that bill is doing exactly what you are asking for MissPlaced: Treating the church like every other organisation in the US and no longer respecting the preferential liaison between church and state as there used to be. It doesn't give it a special status above all others and it's not making dedicated rules just for the church. They have to follow the same rules as everybody else in that they have to cover contraceptives with their health insurance. Seperation of state and church does not mean that the christian churches should be outside the scope of normal laws, but it means that the christian church, just as any other church, be it jewish, muslim or buddhist, receives no preferential treatment by the government and does not influence politics.
Exempting a church from a law just because it is a church is the exact opposite of "seperation of church and state", it is the state supporting and reinforcing the position of the church. This is not always wrong, but it's certainly not something that should be supported each time either.

The church has long believed that it is a state in its own right and that it doesn't have to answer to the police or any kind of earthly justice. This has lead, for example, to the wide-spread knowledge of child-abuse and pedophilia in the catholic church without anybody reporting it to the police AND without any of the priests being punished. They have actively blocked and delayed investigations around these topics here in Germany, assuming that they would not be prosecuted because they are people of the church.


about this law....BUT it's we the American People that should be crying bloody murder about this law.....

Can you elaborate why you should be crying bloody murder? It's not like you are going to be forced to use contraceptives if you don't want to.

IMHO any place that does not only hire devote catholics which won't use contraceptives as employees, should cover contraceptives. If the belief of the person isn't important enough to stop them from being hired, then the implication of the church can't be so big that covering contraceptives in their health insurance plan is really an offence to the church anyways. Anything else is just hypocritical: It's totally ok for all of our employers to use it, we're fine with that. But OMG now that it actually concerns our money, we need to start whining at how unfair this is.
Besides didn't the pope say it was ok to use contraceptives if you were a (male) prositute or gay? It's not like the (catholic) church is against contraception in all cases anymore anyways.

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#14 MissPlaced

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 05:34 PM

@ Myrti,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to this, I appreciate it...
and I can certainly see how what I said about "Seperation of Church and State" Could be somewhat confusing...Let me try to un-muddy the waters here and my point a little clearer.

To me "Organized Religion" and "The Church" are two entirely seperate entities, universes apart...

Let me explain what I mean by that,

I'll start with "Organized Religion"
What you said is right on the money(no pun intended) If Organized Religion want's to conduct them selves as a business and they do then YES they should lose their Tax excempt(sp?) statis and like yesterday...they can't have it both ways....If you or I started a business, just because we're say Catholic or in my case Episcopalian,we wouldn't get an exemption now would we..No..so it should be with "organized Religion".

Now Let's go to the Church....

"The Church" Isn't a denomination, building ,...IT's People...People who are reaching out to those that have been hurt, disillusioned by "The Organized Religion Machine"

People that take very seriously what JESUS said about being our brothers keeper....HE said "How can you tell your Brother go be warm and well fed, when you know that he isn't?"
"The Church" takes this to heart..and without Fanfare or sky rocket's...their taking care of those that need to understand that there is a world of difference between JESUS and "Organized Religion"
"Organized Religion" IMHO has alot of nerve Standing under the banner of CHRIST and then causing all the harm that they do!
"The Church" is seeing to it that, that lil one up the street isn't going to bed hungry, that The elderly in their communities aren't going hungry or eating dog food, because their being forced to chose between food or the meds that they need,or heating their home, or keeping the electric on,or paying their rent/house payment..seeing to it that they can get to see their Dr's and defray some of the cost..a clerical collar and a Big Cross can melt even the coldest hearts(Dirty pool?? :lol: ..Perhap's) But if it get's those folks what they need then so be it...some provide free child care for those that are barely making it and can't afford the extra expense of child care..or taking care of an elderly loved one so that they can afford to keep soul and body together..I could go on and on....

Myrti,my problem with a bill like this is that it's a blanket bill/Law that will make it harder for "The Church" to continue to take care of these needs...yes it punishes the guilty..but it also harm's the innocent.

This isn't only about "Birth Control/Contaceptives"...this goes far deeper..

With Biils like this there is always something in the fine print....from something as stupid and silly as some congressman/women who want's their home town to name a street(pick your choice here) after them to something as serious as requireing "Sterilazation" for the "Challenged" or worse..
We don't yet know what's in the fine print...BUT one things for sure, if this bill becomes Law, then The Federal Government has got it's foot in the door as far as "Government control over our Freedoms" and that's something that I just can't over look..it look's harmless enough on the surface...but then so does a sleeping rattle snake

Myrti, I hope this un-muddies the waters...

Respectfully
MissPlaced

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#15 myrti

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 06:37 PM

Hi,

why does free contraceptive reduce our freedoms? I guess that is what I don't understand.

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