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No Terrorism Or Rights?


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29 replies to this topic

#1 yano

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 10:36 PM

The other day in government we got in to the discussion about no terrorism and our individual rights.

The class was divided. At the beginning of the class 9 students voted to "rid terrorism" and 5 voted to keep individual rights.

The question was "would you rather have indivudual rights or get rid of terrorism?"

What would you have?

Would you rather fight terrorism or fight to keep your individual rights?

Personally I'd rather have my individual rights, because terrorism is a risk. Risk cannot be eliminated, it can only be reduced.

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#2 boopme

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 03:46 PM

maybe I got the concept wrong,but I'll fight for my rights as did my dad,his and his dad. Then I'll fight any terrorist that comes along too. I can't give in either way.
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#3 jgweed

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 04:07 PM

I don't think, at least in general, that fighting terrorism and preserving individual rights are necessarily mutually contradictory activities, as the topic would suggest. In such a discussion, reductive statements should be supplanted by concrete examples to have any real meaning.

It may very well be that maintaining individual liberties, or rights, would actually be the best defence in the long run against a terrorism whose goal is the abolishment of these very rights.

Surely when under immediate threat of a catastrophe, and for a carefully limited time, a governmen may, and should, temporarily limit some rights in defence of the common good by obtaining the consent of its citizens. As always in special cases like this, it should be clearly understood that the danger is immediate and serious, lest the remedy be made permanent, and a people preserved in their lives, but only by living as slaves in chains of their own making.

Regards,
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Edited by jgweed, 03 February 2006 - 04:08 PM.

Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one should be silent.

#4 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 04:11 PM

Well, considering terrorism will pretty much NEVER disappear, i'd much rather reserve my individual rights.

Also, a side thought: Bush keeps telling us that the terrorists shouldn't win, we should go about our regular lives, blah blah. However, if we're acting scared as crap that something is going to happen, and completely altering privacy, doesn't that mean the terrorists are getting what they want?

#5 phawgg

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 04:57 PM

I can only agree with your stated opinions, yano, boopme, jgweed & Heretic Monkey. Each of them. :thumbsup:
patiently patrolling, plenty of persisant pests n' problems ...

#6 BlackSpyder

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 07:41 PM

"He who forfiets his indvidual rights for security deserve nither"~ forgot who said it

Yeah I know its been on tv alot but it deserves to but put in this post. Simply put terrorist will never stop. Look at the England, the britsh gave up their guns for security and the IRA still caused problems for them. Terrorism will exist forever. However this terrorist theat will go away. Our rights are the only thing keeping us from being Communists.

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#7 t3s

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 07:55 PM

Don't you think the terrosists would be smart enough NOT to use american phones to begin with? I mean if alot of demestic crimals get caught through phone tapping don't you think that it would already be easy for terrorists to get caught the same way? I mean the stereo type for almost all forein terror based organizations is stupidity, but I don't think they are that stupid. Personally I think that i'de much rather keep my rights because of one thing: I don't think this will help at all. If it were much more effective method then I sure as heck would give up allitle privacy (depending on how), but I don't think that this is going to help at all.

Edited by WlkingMan, 03 February 2006 - 07:56 PM.


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#8 AL...

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 08:08 PM

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You can never have freedom by denying others the rights you enjoy.
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#9 BlackSpyder

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 08:23 PM

Freedom Fighters fight for freedom. (duh!) Not bomb buildings full of innocents using jumbo jets. These people arent stupid thier using the same technology we use that is untracable b/c of our use of it (ie satalite phones, television, ect). What? you dont think Binny boy doesn't encode those tapes he make w/ little snipits of real info and then re encode it deeper with crap. You know the government has been burned by those lightly encoded snipits before so their looking deeper now. They just by-pass the icing for the cake and missout on the really good stuff. The timings of the tapes releases are also more than likely messages in themselves.

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#10 AL...

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 08:53 PM

IRA: Freedom fighters or Terrorists?
UDF: Freedom fighters or Terrorists?
ANC (Nelson Mandela's lot) :Freedom fighters or Terrorists?
William Wallace: Freedom fighter or Terrorist?

I await oh wise one with breath a bated to teach your humble student on his wrongness and woefully inadequate view on this world. I can only hope to rasie myself in you warm glowing esteem from a doh! to a dummy.
Your interests (Check Length), Your location (Check Length). What if I dont need to check my length?
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#11 jgweed

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 09:00 PM

"He who forfiets his indvidual rights for security deserve nither"


I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who wrote:"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

He certainly was correct.
John
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one should be silent.

#12 yano

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 09:10 PM

"He who forfiets his indvidual rights for security deserve nither"


I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who wrote:"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

He certainly was correct.
John

Amen!

And like previously stated if it weren't for our rights we would be a communist country. Let's be grateful of what rights we have now. Damn patriot act.... :thumbsup: Isn't so patriotic now is it?

If anyone wants to read through the 140 page that makes it up: http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

#13 BlackSpyder

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 09:12 PM

IRA: Freedom Fighters (they were oppressed by the english)
William Wallace: Freedom Fighter (same freaking problem the IRA had just a couple centries earlier)
ANC:Freedom Fighters (oppressed yet again)
UDF: Never Heard Of 'Em
The Taliban(if thats still their name): terrorist. Have we oppressed them, not to my knowlage. As a matter of fact we taught them how to fight in the 80's. Their just upset over our religious differances (Christian/Muslim holy war crap) and since we're a Christian nation who's a better target
King Richard:Terrorist. same freaking war as the taliban just a few centuries early.
Timothy Mcvay: Terrorist
The Unibomber: Terrorist
Those French Rioters: Freedom Fighters (they are still being oppressed)
Chechen Rebels: Freedom Fighters (oppresed)

The line is drawn between the 2 when the rogue side has a truly good cause to fight for that the rest of the world can see. (Heck even the PLO and Hamas have good enough resons to not be called terrorist organizations. They are also being denied a country to call their own)

Edited by BlackSpyder, 03 February 2006 - 09:18 PM.

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#14 AL...

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:10 PM

Ooooooooook then BlackSpyder. Now just turn all that on its head and look at it from the other persons point of view. The one who's getting bombed, blowen up while shopping or shot in the knee cause we thought you were naughty. They dont look to much like freedom fighters then.

"..since we're a Christian nation..." If your refering to the United States then your wrong, they have no offical religion (or language come to that). Many belive that the USA only has it's self to blame for acts committed against it for sticking its fingers in to other peoples countries. Others have found this out in the past. Egypt, Italy(Rome), Greece, to name a few.

Anyways, regardless what you think/belive in how can anyone justify killing someone going about their normal 'just trying to keep a roof over my head' lives? I have seen them try, but I dont buy it. The ends do not justify the means.
Your interests (Check Length), Your location (Check Length). What if I dont need to check my length?
Religion has a built-in defense system: anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of "the devil" by the very fact that it makes you question a belief.
Don't eat yellow snow.

#15 t3s

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:19 PM

"..since we're a Christian nation..." If your refering to the United States then your wrong, they have no offical religion (or language come to that)......

Anyways, regardless what you think/belive in how can anyone justify killing someone going about their normal 'just trying to keep a roof over my head' lives? I have seen them try, but I dont buy it. The ends do not justify the means.



I agree with the bottom paragraph, however: We may not technically have an official religion, but 99/100 of the people you walk up to are likely to be cristian. Therefore I see us as A Christian nation.

Edited by WlkingMan, 03 February 2006 - 10:20 PM.


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