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Can I use Knoppix to browser and/or delete XP files?


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#1 PetarSickey

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 12:57 PM

I have access to a bootable CD of Knoppix. I've never tried it. Will it be possible to browser my Windows XP drives and not just copy
files, but instead delete ones I don't want. So I'm using Knoppix 6.2 to get rid of Windows XP files. I don't want things
like SID changes that would occur if I tried to safe boot and then use "take ownership". I just want to use an outside operating
system to look at those files, and delete the ones I don't want.

Edit: Moved topic from XP to the more appropriate forum. ~ Animal

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#2 urlugal

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 01:09 PM

Yes you can, I use a live CD all the time for mounting/backing up windows drives to a network

#3 PetarSickey

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 05:21 PM

I am now able to browse into previous unviewable Windows directories (those protected by Windows security). So Knoppix
has enabled this, but there are two problems that I will need to sort out.

1) which charset to use in the File Manager
2) how to get the commands numbered 0 to 10 to work. The commands are like delete, rename, mvdir, quit, etc.. So when I hit
8 for delete I just get an error, and when I hit 10 for quit, I get an error.

But at least I can see the files, even if I cannot yet delete them for sake of some error that I need to understand.

So I've made a lot of progress as I can see the nasties in the previously locked folders. Better than nothing.

#4 myrti

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 07:26 PM

What is your file manager called? What is the text of the error message? Which version of knoppix are you using?

regards myrti

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#5 PetarSickey

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:35 AM

Hi Myrti, I have figured out what is going on (at least as far as the commands - they are F keys).

I still hit skip for the charset - and I don't want to yet delete any files - I would doubt that the charset being wrong would affect this
much since the blocks of a hard-drive don't really depend on charset but I will wait until the charset issue is resolved just to be safe.

So anyway, I'll give some more info even though I know how to use the commands now.

Here goes:

My Linux CD is Knoppix 6.2 (Adrianne, for impaired) - it runs Linux kernel 2.6.31.6, with initialization booter of vers. 2.86.
Live mode Adrianne, screen reader Adrianne run level 2


I then choose a command from a long list, around the 8th or 9th one is File Manager.

Then:
m mount contents of /dev/sdb1
f browse files in /media/sdb1

Then a new screen:

Confirmation
Chosen display charset (Settings->Displaybits) or source codeset (in mcedit ctrl-t)
does not match one set via locale.
Set correct codeset manually or press <<Fix it>> to set locale default.

Or set Don't ask again and press <<skip>>

[_] don't ask again

[<Fix it>] [Skip]

If you ever want the next screen that occurs after I say skip, let me know. I need to hit reply now.

#6 PetarSickey

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:41 AM

It is Midnight Commander 4.70-pre1
One comment though about that File Manager screen, it has the following at the top and bottom:

Top:
Left File Command Options Right

Middle:
A file browser

Bottom:
1 Help 2 Menu 3 View 4 Edit 5 Copy 6 Renmov 7 Mkdir 8 Delete 9 PUlldown 10 quit

You hit the F1, F2, etc..

#7 PetarSickey

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:45 AM

Honestly, it's easy to use, both startup, screen to screen, you can hit escape to exit a screen normally.

I have now shut it down awaiting something on the charset issue.

I guess when you see Document~ettings, can I charset up and do better than this? HM?

#8 PetarSickey

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:39 AM

Guys - and girls, I now realize that my research can focus on Midnight Commander - somewhere I'll find something on how to set the charset properly.

So I'm making a little progress -

Perhaps there's a forum or a thread somewhere on Midnight Commander.

#9 PetarSickey

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:12 PM

I don't know, I must have to check what's in /etc/default/locale like is it en_US.UTF8 or whatever. I might need to change that.

But I wish I knew Windows XP's characters so I don't have Document~settings rather than Documents and Settings. Does it really
skip the and? How does it come up with Document~settings - this is not UTF8, is it?

#10 urlugal

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 05:36 PM

Do you need a File Manager? If you want to use the commandline all you are 3 or 4 commands. rm xxx where xxx=filesname(case sensative), rm -Rf xxx where xxx is the directory, R means delete recursive, and f means force. This will wipe EVERYTHING out be careful where you do this. if you do it in C:\ if will delete the entrie drive/paration. mv xxx yyy, where xxx is the old file name and yyy is the new filename. cp xxx yyy where xxx is the filename and yyy is the path to move it to including the filename.

#11 PetarSickey

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:27 AM

Yeah, wow, the ole Unix command line rm and all that stuff - cobwebs. ls, cp?, mv? auck? said?

Jesus, I just think it's so cool that they have tools that know how to update file and directory tables, even across an
operating system, after all, the files I want to delete are on a Windows XP drive. Now - has the computer industry agreed
on a standard for removing a file and/or (even more complex) a directory. Like, do they all use preorder, postorder, inorder in
the same way. Like did they agree on one of these for their trees?

And ya know, it's funny, I might just rename all of the files, kind of mangle them a little, the first time. Just sort of tickle
the hard-drive first, see if it giggles before I go all the way.

But I'm waiting for some new hard-drives so I can clone all those fun viruses first, in case something DOES go wrong.

Ever wonder why I like to talk about this stuff first?

#12 myrti

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:33 AM

Hi,

the question is not if they have agreed on a way to delete a file between different OS, but whether a certain OS can read the file system you put on your hard drive. Linux can read the Windows file systems NTFS and FAT natively. If you mount the partition correctly under Linux, it should be displayed the same way it is displayed on your Windows OS.
However Windows can not read the Linux file systems Ext3 or Ext4. So you will have a hard time to read any data from an Ext4 partition if you boot from a Windows Live CD.
Apple has it's own file system again (which afaik Linux can read), but it has (or used to have.. I'm not that familiar with Apple) trouble reading Windows file systems.

Personally I use Linux exactly for the good old command line.. things can be done so much quicker by command line than file browser. :lol:

regards myrti

is that a bird?  a plane? nooo it's the flying blueberry!

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#13 PetarSickey

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:26 PM

Thank you, I understand what you are saying about "reading" a file system. However, it is not absolutely certain that just because a technology such as Linux can read a file system, that one can entirely trust deletions. I agree, that Linux works, since I've now read other people's experiences and it DOES seem to work on Windows drives. But hooh boy, deleting a file or directory is no trivial task, and the fact that Linux can successfully
delete a windows file or directory is not entirely without some thought as to how to do it. There has to be a way to reference all kinds of block ids and break and make connections between them. Many operating systems probably do this according to some standard but Apple apparently does it differently.

I see what you mean that if it can read, it should be able to delete but I still think there is room in there for a huge mistake to occur. But luckily or skillfully, the various Unix flavors such as Puppy, Knoppix, etc.. can do this.

Some day though, I would like to look at the source code of the file management tools and look at every line and compare to a windows approach. They are probably using low-level calls that are similar to your command-line or perhaps some other engine under the command-line. It's not a completely trivial task, but if they use things like rm, mv, cp, etc.. to do these things, then pretty much an m-ary tree is an m-ary tree.

So I guess it's not surprising. But was I nervous - wooh!

#14 PetarSickey

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:30 PM

By the way, I'm glad I dragged my feet on this one and that it took a day or two for people to get back to me - I now realize that many of the files - I need to simply move them, not delete them. They were simply moved.

And also, Apple IS different. I think that DOS, Windows, Linux, they are like Latin, Greek, and French, sort of a common lineage or something like that.

#15 myrti

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:01 AM

Hi,

when you did your research you will have seen that for NTFS there was for a long time only read and no write support. NTFS was introduced by MS in 1993, I believe. The first read support for NTFS on Linux came around 2000 and the first stable read&write support was introduced around 2003.. When I switched to Linux (which was around 2004), I was still told that reading from NTFS partitions was very reliable, but that it should be avoided to write onto them. This obviously has changed.

And also, Apple IS different. I think that DOS, Windows, Linux, they are like Latin, Greek, and French, sort of a common lineage or something like that.

As far as I know, actually, Linux and Apple have common heritage in the UNIX systems, while Windows and MS DOS stand on their own.

regards myrti

is that a bird?  a plane? nooo it's the flying blueberry!

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