Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Getting New Computer


  • Please log in to reply
65 replies to this topic

#1 bigdog1100

bigdog1100

  • Members
  • 304 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:03:38 AM

Posted 07 November 2011 - 02:42 PM

Hi. So I now see that it is time to get a new computer. I have SONY VAIO that is fairly old (5-6 years). So I now have several questions and items I need to consider. I would sincerely appreciate any input.

My budget is around $600-$700 (not including $150 for nVidia), and I am buying without monitor.

Primary use is to play EvE and WoW without interruptions, watch HD movies, Etc..


1.) First question is: to buy or to build? I figure it will cost more to build and I am on a limited budget.

2.) Also if I were to buy which system is better Gateway DX or ZT Affinity 7000 series. Is HP also a good system to consider? Here are the examples of what I am looking at.

http://www.ztsystems.com/default.aspx?tabid=1239&productid=28146

http://us.gateway.com/gw/en/US/content/model/PT.GCPP2.004

3.) AMD with six cores or Pentium i5 with four cores?

4.) What should I consider when I am buying a PC if I will later upgrade basic video card to nVidia GTX

5.) What is a must to have besides USB 3 and networking on a new system?

6.) Anything else you might want to add please feel free.


Thank you so much! :)

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V LX; Processor: Intel i5 2500k; RAM 24GB: CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); Video Card: MSI AMD Radeon RX 470 Gaming X 4G GDDR5; Power Supply: OCZ ZS Series 650W 80PLUS Bronze High Performance Power Supply; Multi-card reader: Nippon Labs Delux 3.5" Internal All In One Card Reader/Writer with USB2.0 & eSATA Ports Model ICR-BB. Optical 1: LG GH22NS90; Optical 2:  ASUS BW-12B1ST; Fans: 3x80mm, CPU Cooling: XIGMATEK LOKI SD963. So there are total of 6 fans.
 


BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 DJBPace07

DJBPace07

  • BC Advisor
  • 4,869 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:03:38 AM

Posted 07 November 2011 - 04:56 PM

1. Build, if you are comfortable in doing so. You may get a better price with buying off-the-shelf, but you know exactly what goes into a build you do along with the ability to pick higher quality parts.

2. I would say the first one, but I would go for a boutique builder before even considering buying anything from HP or Dell. I like Velocity Micro, Maingear, or Puget Systems.

3. Given your price point, I would go AMD with a high-end quad or six core CPU. Intel is fine, but at these price points, there isn't much difference between the two.

4. With either pre-built system, you will not be upgrading to any gaming-level graphics card due to their low wattage power supplies. Consider a Radeon graphics card too, you may save money.

5. USB 3.0 isn't exactly a must have now since there aren't many standard devices that use it, though it is nice to have, same with SATA III/6.0 due to the lack of hardware that actually needs it.

Here's an idea for a build:

Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW - This is a decent mid-ATX case. It can hold most graphics cards, but if you decide to go for the high-end GPU's, or use multiple GPU's, you may want to consider a full ATX case. $54

Notherboard: ASUS M5A97 AM3+ AMD 970 - This is a basic AMD motherboard that will take both AM3 and AM3+ CPU's, it also allows for USB 3.0, SATA III, and Crossfire. $99

CPU: AMD FX-4100 Zambezi 3.6GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) - Given the games you play and your budget, there is almost no benefit to using six or eight core CPU's. Those CPU's are great for programs that can feed loads of threads or are highly parallel. $129

Power Supply: ENERMAX NAXN ENP550AWT 550W - This is a good power supply and should be adequate for your uses. $64

GPU: HIS H679F1GD Radeon HD 6790 1GB - Those are not very demanding games you are using so a higher-end card isn't really needed. A bit more powerful card is the SAPPHIRE 100315L Radeon HD 6850 1GB. #129

RAM: CORSAIR 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 - This is a single 4GB stick of RAM, if you are going to be playing more recent games, or video or photo editing, I would suggest getting 8GB, otherwise 4GB is enough. $23

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Blue WD2500AAKX 250GB - This isn't very much, but hard drive prices are going up very quickly. $89

ODD: Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model AD-7261S-0B - You need this to install software off discs. $20

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - You need this. $99

Grand Total: $714 (Before taxes, rebates, and shipping)

3939.png

 


#3 bigdog1100

bigdog1100
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 304 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:03:38 AM

Posted 07 November 2011 - 11:38 PM

Well thank you very much. I will look into these parts and will decide what to do next. Again thanks a lot.

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V LX; Processor: Intel i5 2500k; RAM 24GB: CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); Video Card: MSI AMD Radeon RX 470 Gaming X 4G GDDR5; Power Supply: OCZ ZS Series 650W 80PLUS Bronze High Performance Power Supply; Multi-card reader: Nippon Labs Delux 3.5" Internal All In One Card Reader/Writer with USB2.0 & eSATA Ports Model ICR-BB. Optical 1: LG GH22NS90; Optical 2:  ASUS BW-12B1ST; Fans: 3x80mm, CPU Cooling: XIGMATEK LOKI SD963. So there are total of 6 fans.
 


#4 killerx525

killerx525

    Bleepin' Aussie


  • Members
  • 7,220 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia
  • Local time:06:38 PM

Posted 07 November 2011 - 11:40 PM

The reason why hard drives prices has sky rocketed is because of the floods in Thailand which has affected the hard drive manfacturing.

>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#5 bigdog1100

bigdog1100
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 304 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:03:38 AM

Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:22 AM

I am actually good with Hard Drives and it is not my main concern. I have new 1 TB drive waiting. for its new home. My main concern is I had a bad experience with ATI GPUs and now more inclined towards nVidia. I also noticed that this forum is heavily suggesting Radeon which is fine. I just want to know why.

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V LX; Processor: Intel i5 2500k; RAM 24GB: CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); Video Card: MSI AMD Radeon RX 470 Gaming X 4G GDDR5; Power Supply: OCZ ZS Series 650W 80PLUS Bronze High Performance Power Supply; Multi-card reader: Nippon Labs Delux 3.5" Internal All In One Card Reader/Writer with USB2.0 & eSATA Ports Model ICR-BB. Optical 1: LG GH22NS90; Optical 2:  ASUS BW-12B1ST; Fans: 3x80mm, CPU Cooling: XIGMATEK LOKI SD963. So there are total of 6 fans.
 


#6 killerx525

killerx525

    Bleepin' Aussie


  • Members
  • 7,220 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia
  • Local time:06:38 PM

Posted 08 November 2011 - 01:37 AM

As far as i know, it is probably because of Nvidia's buggy drivers and it's overpriced cost.

>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#7 DJBPace07

DJBPace07

  • BC Advisor
  • 4,869 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:03:38 AM

Posted 08 November 2011 - 02:42 PM

Indeed, you typically get a little more for the same price with AMD than Nvidia. I have usually found AMD's drivers to be a bit more stable and released at more regular intervals than Nvidia's. In terms of bad experiences, ATI, now part of AMD, does not make the cards themselves so most hardware issues can be traced back to the individual card manufacturers.

3939.png

 


#8 bigdog1100

bigdog1100
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 304 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:03:38 AM

Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:37 PM

What about CPUs? I once again am more inclined to get i5 four core than AMDs 4 or 6 core. That second gen processor seems more attractive Plus I never had AMD CPU before. Any thoughts on that? I want to watch HD movies and be able to maybe save some power for the future.

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V LX; Processor: Intel i5 2500k; RAM 24GB: CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); Video Card: MSI AMD Radeon RX 470 Gaming X 4G GDDR5; Power Supply: OCZ ZS Series 650W 80PLUS Bronze High Performance Power Supply; Multi-card reader: Nippon Labs Delux 3.5" Internal All In One Card Reader/Writer with USB2.0 & eSATA Ports Model ICR-BB. Optical 1: LG GH22NS90; Optical 2:  ASUS BW-12B1ST; Fans: 3x80mm, CPU Cooling: XIGMATEK LOKI SD963. So there are total of 6 fans.
 


#9 DJBPace07

DJBPace07

  • BC Advisor
  • 4,869 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:03:38 AM

Posted 08 November 2011 - 05:13 PM

Intel and AMD CPU's run the exact same software due to cross licensing. Software that will run on one will run on the other. The main difference between AMD and Intel is price and performance. You tend to get more performance per dollar on AMD than on Intel, however, in raw performance, Intel is usually faster with their higher-end CPU's, which aren't in your budget. Things get a bit more hazy on AMD's FX CPU's as opposed to Intel's current Sandy Bridge CPU's.

According to your original post, you are not doing anything that requires high computational power, therefore, any quad core Intel or AMD CPU will work, especially when it comes to HD movies. Most movie software puts the processing burden on the graphics card if it can, depending on the sofware you use for playback. Games are usually more graphics card bound, so the majority of your funds should be focused there. The i5 2300 is about $50 more and will eat into your funds, most gamers, if you want to go Intel, would go for the i5 2500K which is about $100 more.

3939.png

 


#10 killerx525

killerx525

    Bleepin' Aussie


  • Members
  • 7,220 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia
  • Local time:06:38 PM

Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:11 PM

By getting a AMD processor, this will allow you to get a nicer graphics card.

>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#11 philo-sofa

philo-sofa

  • Members
  • 55 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Auckland, New Zealand
  • Local time:07:38 PM

Posted 09 November 2011 - 05:53 AM

For EVE and WoW I'd suggest this system (which should also work out a lot cheaper):


Mobo - Gigabyte GA-A75M-D2H

CPU - AMD A8-3850

RAM - DDR3 1600 2x2GB (4GB Total)

GPU - On-CPU.

HDD - Any 1TB HDD

Optical - ASUS DRW-24B3ST

PSU - Cooler Master Elite Power 400W

Case - Antec Three Hundred

Monitor - Asus VE247H

Speakers - On monitor

KB & Mouse - Logitech Internet 350


The processor should be a little faster in most things than the FX-4100 (don't get me started on how bad FX processors are), and the CPU actually has a decent integrated graphics card. On WoW Cataclysm with 'good' settings with 1x AntiAliasing you should be get ~40 frames per second. If you need more graphics power later you can pair the CPU's graphics with an HD 6670 for a decent speed boost.

Edited by philo-sofa, 09 November 2011 - 05:55 AM.

i7 860 @ 4.0Ghz | Prolimatech Megashadow & 120mm Gelid | MSI P55-GD65 | 8 GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 CL8 | Sapphire AMD HD 6970 (flashed from HD 6950) @ 910/5600 MHz | 2x 160GB Intel 320 Series (RAID 0), 1.5TB + 2TB Seagate | Corsair AX-750 | Silverstone TJ10B-WESA | Samsung 2443BW | Logitech G19 | Logitech G500

#12 DJBPace07

DJBPace07

  • BC Advisor
  • 4,869 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:03:38 AM

Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:48 PM

The FX processors aren't bad per se, they just aren't the Sandy Bridge killers everyone was hoping for, pair that with the internet herd machine and overhype, and you have cases of nerd rage with little real information. The A8 and the FX in my build are similar in terms of performance with most programs, there are differences, but they are typically minor as seen here. The only issue I see with the above build is the reduced options for future upgrades. The socket the AMD APU's use will be obsolete with the release of Trinity next year, so you won't be able to upgrade there, second, the PSU drastically limits the upgrade potential of the graphics card. Also, keep in mind that 30 frames per second is usually considered slow but playable, with the optimal rate being 60 since that is what monitors cap out at in refresh rates.

3939.png

 


#13 bigdog1100

bigdog1100
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 304 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:03:38 AM

Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:05 PM

So AMD FX 4100 or A8-3850? I noticed that A8-3850 does not have L3 Cache. Also, will nVidia be compatible with AMD processor?

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V LX; Processor: Intel i5 2500k; RAM 24GB: CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); Video Card: MSI AMD Radeon RX 470 Gaming X 4G GDDR5; Power Supply: OCZ ZS Series 650W 80PLUS Bronze High Performance Power Supply; Multi-card reader: Nippon Labs Delux 3.5" Internal All In One Card Reader/Writer with USB2.0 & eSATA Ports Model ICR-BB. Optical 1: LG GH22NS90; Optical 2:  ASUS BW-12B1ST; Fans: 3x80mm, CPU Cooling: XIGMATEK LOKI SD963. So there are total of 6 fans.
 


#14 philo-sofa

philo-sofa

  • Members
  • 55 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Auckland, New Zealand
  • Local time:07:38 PM

Posted 09 November 2011 - 05:13 PM

The FX processors aren't bad per se, they just aren't the Sandy Bridge killers everyone was hoping for, pair that with the internet herd machine and overhype, and you have cases of nerd rage with little real information.


I'm not saying that because I have "little information". We don't know each-other but you're being a little assumptive there. For the record I do the harware reviews amongst other things and given that Bulldozer was supposed to supercede STARS and K10.5, the fact that it's generally slower per thread, barely faster in very highly threaded scenarios, uses a massive number of transistors, has lower IPC and has insane power usage means it's not a case of 'nerd rage' or overhype when I dismiss Bulldozer - it's that's slower than its predecessors; Bulldozer is an embarrasment. With your build you'd find a 960T would have been faster.


The only issue I see with the above build is the reduced options for future upgrades. The socket the AMD APU's use will be obsolete with the release of Trinity next year, so you won't be able to upgrade there, second, the PSU drastically limits the upgrade potential of the graphics card. Also, keep in mind that 30 frames per second is usually considered slow but playable, with the optimal rate being 60 since that is what monitors cap out at in refresh rates.

Possibly, but possibly not. The AM3+ socket you're sugguesting will be phased out after Piledriver in Favour of FM2 - there's a good chance however than FM2 processors (starting with Trinity) will be pin-compatible with FM1, giving a similar level of "upgrade pathyness". The PSU won't limit him in terms of GPU's he'd use, anything up to a 6870 would be quite comfortable there. >40 FPS on WoW should be more than fine.

So AMD FX 4100 or A8-3850? I noticed that A8-3850 does not have L3 Cache. Also, will nVidia be compatible with AMD processor?


Benchmarks and reviews confirm that the A8 is quite a bit faster than the FX, even on programs that the FX is at its best with. For example this excerpt legitreviews' conclusion (which uses the A8-3850's slower cousin the A6-3650!):

"When it comes to performance we were shocked to see the AMD A8-3850 'Llano' processor and the Socket FM1 platform performing better than the AMD FX-4100 'Bulldozer' processor and the Socket AM3+ platform. We quickly found out that the FX-4100 was priced this low as it needed to be. The performance of the FX-4100 wasn't awful, but we didn't expect to see the AMD A6-3650 running at 2.6GHz to beat the AMD FX-4100 running at 3.6GHz in benchmarks like POV-Ray and Cinebench!" (source).

I'd say the main question is whether you want an A8 with an integrated graphics chip, or more power in the graphcis department now with say a 960 T and an HD 6850. TBH given that the A8 has plenty of graphics performance for what you use it with now, I'd probably go with that.

As far as compatibility between Nvidia graphics cards and AMD processors, yes they are compatible.

Edited by philo-sofa, 09 November 2011 - 05:20 PM.

i7 860 @ 4.0Ghz | Prolimatech Megashadow & 120mm Gelid | MSI P55-GD65 | 8 GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 CL8 | Sapphire AMD HD 6970 (flashed from HD 6950) @ 910/5600 MHz | 2x 160GB Intel 320 Series (RAID 0), 1.5TB + 2TB Seagate | Corsair AX-750 | Silverstone TJ10B-WESA | Samsung 2443BW | Logitech G19 | Logitech G500

#15 bigdog1100

bigdog1100
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 304 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:03:38 AM

Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:46 PM

What about i5 2500K why is it more preferred if it is missing some elements as it appears on here? For example 2500 has all Yes. Just wondering.

http://ark.intel.com/search/advanced/?s=t&FamilyText=2nd%20Generation%20Intel%C2%AE%20Core%E2%84%A2%20i5%20Processors&CoreCountMin=4&CoreCountMax=6

Here is what I have so far. Now the only thing is to choose the right path. If it is not on the list, I have the part already.


System Build (Pentium)

1.) Pentium i5 2500K $215

2.) GPU: GeForce GTX 460 $160

3.) Motherboard ASUS P8H67-V $105

4.) RAM x2-4G=8G $45

Total: 525


System Build (AMD)

1.) AMD A8-3850 $140

2.) GPU: AMD Radeon™ HD 6850 Graphics $140
OR AMD Radeon™ HD 6870 Graphics $165

3.) Motherboard: ASUS M5A97 $99

4.) RAM x2-4G=8G $45

Total: 424

What do you think with expectation of saving some for the future of maybe some 3D gaming. I know I now being greedy, but why not. :)

Edited by bigdog1100, 09 November 2011 - 08:51 PM.

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V LX; Processor: Intel i5 2500k; RAM 24GB: CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800); Video Card: MSI AMD Radeon RX 470 Gaming X 4G GDDR5; Power Supply: OCZ ZS Series 650W 80PLUS Bronze High Performance Power Supply; Multi-card reader: Nippon Labs Delux 3.5" Internal All In One Card Reader/Writer with USB2.0 & eSATA Ports Model ICR-BB. Optical 1: LG GH22NS90; Optical 2:  ASUS BW-12B1ST; Fans: 3x80mm, CPU Cooling: XIGMATEK LOKI SD963. So there are total of 6 fans.
 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users