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Is it possible to replace either the NorthBridge or SouthBridge Chipset


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#1 Victor43

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:45 AM

Greeting all.

I am starting to learn how to troubleshoot basic motherboard parts should they become faulty however these two chipsets I cannot see any obvious and visual way that these two chips can be replaced. I have tried searching the web for any help but so far I could not find any help.

So my question comes to simply can a single person (me) with the right tools (i.e. Hot Air Gun, Soldering IRON, ePoxy) simply remove either of these chips and replace them with another ? Of course I understand the chip that will replace the existing must match exactly the older one for the same board.

So is it possible and has it ever been done by an amature but with the right tools and experience ?

Thanks in advance

Victor

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#2 abauw

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:58 AM

It's very difficult to be done with amature. Even a pro sometimes get problem with this.

If something wrong or bad luck replace it will make your Mainboard totally dead.

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#3 Required Field

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 11:15 AM

I would say popped capacitors, yes, zapped chips, no...i wouldn't.
"Most quotes attributed to famous people on the internet are fake." -Abraham Lincoln

#4 Victor43

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 04:01 PM

Thanks guys for the response. However I did find out from someone who kindly gave me links to YouTube.com about how to replace a BGA chip. EVen though none of the videos were about replacing the SouthBridge or NorthBridge chips the design of the BGA chip they were working with in the video bears a strong resemblance to the SouthBridge chip in the manner in which SB sits on the motherboard. They make it look easy in the video of course these are pros doing the work and not amateurs like myself.

Hope this helps someone else out.

http://www.youtube.com/user/reply4reply#p/u/4/BnkGXjcNzag



victor

#5 abauw

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 06:43 PM

Like I say before. To replace it you will need some luck. Consequences to do this is make your Mainboard dead.

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#6 MrBruce1959

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:02 PM

Hi Victor43, as you can see from my signature, I have been involved with electronics repair for over 38 years, the 38 years is my professional experience, not including my amateur childhood experience building kits and experimenting with electronic bread boards as they were called in the day.

The hobby is not today, what it was years ago, electronics of today are built by machinery, not people like they were years ago and to save money, the components were down-sized to sub-miniature components. A complete circuit board can be built into a single silicon chip, that is thousands of transistors, capacitors, resisters and diodes in one tiny chip the size of a U.S. 10 cent coin!

The technology then changed to what is known today as surface mount technology, all the parts are glued to the circuit board, then the board is moved across a river of molten solder, the boards are then reheated in a re-flow oven, to which the final process is complete.

The problem with surface mount technology is the architecture is microscopic, this is a cost cutting procedure because it requires less metals to produce what once took a lot of metals to produce.

The technology makes the cost of production so cheap, the surface mount circuit boards are now labeled as "disposable technology, when it breaks, you do not fix it, you simply recycle it and get a new one for less than the cost of repair.

You can replace the north bridge or south bridge chips, but remember, those chips are BONDED to the motherboard, their removal in some cases can damage the motherboard, making any repair a disaster and causing more damage than the replacement is worth.

Bruce.

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#7 JUICYboy

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:35 PM

Wise man you are Mr.Bruce...

I tried removing a diode of my hard-drive circuit board. It was surface mount..

And it is a pain in the but to install I gave up and am buying a new hard-drive... it just makes it so much
easier and faster. Not to mention that if it worked, would it ever have a short or something along those lines...

Thanks for the advice sir!

#8 lti

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:29 PM

Even if you had the tools and skills to replace a northbridge or southbridge chip, where would you find the replacement chip?

#9 MrBruce1959

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:08 PM

where would you find the replacement chip?

Believe it or not, those chips can be ordered, they may not always be printed with the same exact numbers, but their electrical connections are the same inputs and outputs.

But as I stated earlier, the chips on motherboards are almost welded to the motherboard, by the time you get the chip off of the board you pretty much bricked the whole motherboard.

Bruce.

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#10 the_patriot11

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:43 AM

And in the case of some chips, once you add in the price of the chip, the shipping and the time involved in replacing it, its often easier and more cost effective to simply buy a new motherboard

picard5.jpg

 

Primary system: Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 945, Memory: 16 gigs of Patriot G2 DDR3 1600, Video: AMD Sapphire Nitro R9 380, Storage: 1 WD 500 gig HD, 1 Hitachi 500 gig HD, and Power supply: Coolermaster 750 watt, OS: Windows 10 64 bit. 

Media Center: Motherboard: Gigabyte mp61p-S3, Processor: AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+, Memory: 6 gigs Patriot DDR2 800, Video: Gigabyte GeForce GT730, Storage: 500 gig Hitachi, PSU: Seasonic M1211 620W full modular, OS: Windows 10.

If I don't reply within 24 hours of your reply, feel free to send me a pm.


#11 Required Field

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 09:21 AM

electronics of today are built by machinery, not people like they were years ago and to save money, the components were down-sized to sub-miniature components. A complete circuit board can be built into a single silicon chip, that is thousands of transistors, capacitors, resisters and diodes in one tiny chip the size of a U.S. 10 cent coin!

The technology then changed to what is known today as surface mount technology, all the parts are glued to the circuit board, then the board is moved across a river of molten solder, the boards are then reheated in a re-flow oven, to which the final process is complete.

The problem with surface mount technology is the architecture is microscopic, this is a cost cutting procedure because it requires less metals to produce what once took a lot of metals to produce.

The technology makes the cost of production so cheap, the surface mount circuit boards are now labeled as "disposable technology, when it breaks, you do not fix it, you simply recycle it and get a new one for less than the cost of repair.

Bruce, that's the best explanation I've heard...I'd love to print that out and hang it up in the shop. People will bring me an old Dell laptop with a bad motherboard, and they look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them they really should just buy a new or used laptop.
"Most quotes attributed to famous people on the internet are fake." -Abraham Lincoln

#12 MrBruce1959

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 04:25 PM

Bruce, that's the best explanation I've heard...I'd love to print that out and hang it up in the shop.


Permission granted. :thumbup2:

Bruce.

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#13 masterzor

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 09:09 AM

i understand that amateurs are not qualified in reballing a bga, but what about pros?

are there any local pro shops that could do it? if any one remembers a laptop mother board replacement is about $200 to $500 ...that s right...i found one or two at $150 used, with a 7day warrantee and a $70 not working properly.

so...paying $10 for a chipset on ebay and finding a place to do it for $50 is worth it.

ebay has BGAs for $10. the formal name of a northbridge chipset gl40 is ac82gl40 and a gm45 is ac82gm45...they come from china shipped for $5...so a total of $15. plus the people sell "reballing kits" to put them on a motherboard...

we may not know how to do it, so i am going to pm one of those chinese distributors and ask how easy is it to put one on...and do i need $billion factory to do it?

jack

#14 MrBruce1959

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 06:53 PM

The video above does a pretty good job of showing how the process is done, as you can see a special heater is used, it looks like a butane torch, but the best one to use is similar to a blow dryer with a concentrated tip. You have to be extremely careful not to allow the heat to affect the other components close to the work area.

Here is a PDF document entitled:

Surface Mount Technology Repair
Touch Up
Hand Solder

http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kfbk3.nsf/vaFeedbackFAQ/242F44979473BF6685256BCD004EBC14/$file/F2103%20SMT%20Repair-Touchup-Hand%20Solder.pdf

Check this web site out, if you check closely, this is actually a guide describing how to solder semi-conductors and do repairs, just click the various links on this page.

http://www.circuitrework.com/guides/guides.shtml

That web site above offers hours of educational reading for free! Can't go wrong with that price tag! :wink:

There are videos and a list of tool kits you can purchase that are recommended tools to do such repair to surface mount technology.

If anyone out there wishes to pursue the task of repairing electronics that use surface mount technology, I suggest you do like we did in technical high school, we used damaged obsolete circuit boards as testing models to practice on.

The process of removing a component and simply fluxing it back on the board again over and over again gave us the experience to venture into repairing a good circuit board.

Now the person who did the youtube video above used solder braid and the proper temperature soldering iron and also used the proper prep solutions and a liquid solder application that when heated flows only into an area where there is a metal surface, since the application is so thin, there isn't any possibilities of having any solder bridges between conductors.

Now one thing you have to keep in mind with that youtube video, the publisher did not include a scene showing that the chip was functioning after the repair.
I would have at least liked to see the results of this repair.

Now as you seen there was roughly (guessing here) 130 contacts that had to be melded together, and the chip had to have perfect alignment with a very steady hand, not possible for those who have the jitters or hands that shake.
If the chip is off by a margin of 0.001 percent, the chip has to be re-prepped again and retested, sometimes the chip is permanently damaged if it is fired up and it is off the correct contacts, so extreme care must be taken to be as accurate as possible.

Spend some time reading up on that web site above.
There are many books out there available quite cheap or available as ebooks on the web for free that help explain OHMS LAW and basic electronics repair and theory.

Bruce.

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#15 masterzor

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 01:54 AM

MrBruce1959 has replied to a personal conversation entitled "replacing northbridge chipset".

MrBruce1959 said:
======================================================================
Before I answer your question, offer any suggestions or advice, what make and model number motherboard do you intend to do this modification to?

Bruce.
======================================================================

masterzor wrote:
===========================================================================================

i have an toshiba satellite L505-es5015 mobo v000185550 lg40;ddr3;4GB max the board that has the gm45;ddr3;8GB max is v000185070

after extensive research, found out that there is only 2 other intel chipset mobos that are created for ALL L505/500

v000185020 gm45;ddr2 8GB max
v000185030 gl40;ddr2;8GB max

my board is the only one that is 4 GB max...i dont buy that...all the mobos i mentioned, look visually identical.

i doubt the gl40 in my motherboard can't handle the 8GB of DDR3 but could handle 8GB DDR2...


Modification ...if i am right and the gm45 chipset is identical to the gl40, then the only mod i need to do is BIOS mod... this is the one thing i have back up with...i have this guy helping me with the BIOS hacking...via HEX EDITOR...he says my home work is to:

1.) dload HEX EDITOR
2.) read my BIOS and the gm45 BIOS
3.) write down differences
4.) Post them on BIOSMODS.com and someone will piece it together and make a customized flash for me

but this is all for not if these chipsets are different, proven by physical evidence...but if i am wrong, i can buy a
$10 chipset on ebay ac82gm45, and it ships for $5... or ...

.i could do it with a "reballer kit" the Chinese distributor selling the chipsets (used chipsets also), is selling "reballing BGA kits" and when i checked online using the key words "soldering chipsets", putting BGA northbridge" replacing northbridge chipsets ........i got nothing on google !!!

when i used the key words "reballing northbridge BGA" i got ALOT !!!

so many pro places popped up to do the "reballing BGA chipsets" for me...i never called anyone to ask for a price, though yet...

thanks for your time, mr. bruce

jack

===============================================================================

mr. bruce wrote:

Okay so your purpose of doing this mod is to support the T9550 processor and allow it to support up to 8GB of DDR3 RAM is this correct?

Are you also looking to increase the Front Side Buss above the currently supported 800MHz?

The BIOS-Modes web site is a very good choice to be working with, in fact I have a business acount with them and have used them many times for BIOS updates and chip replacements on bricked motherboard as that came to me with a failed flash update.

I used to have an EPROMM programmer/burner, shoot me if you wish, but since I retired from full time employment I donated the thing last year to a local technical high school, it was the least I could do for those looking for a future in eletronics chip burning.

Waiting for your reply, although our conversation, should really be in the open forums, so others can learn from our discussions.

Bruce.

=====================================================================================

jack wrote:
then i will reply in the open forums...BTW this response you wrote came from my forum comment...i think...so look for the responses and updates in that forum....thanks...the quick answer is YES 800-->1066mhz.... good....plus the world will know don't trust manufacturers at what they say, if i have proof that i am right about the chipsets being the same....if they are different, then step 2 is to see if the reballing of BGAs are a walk in the park with the kits, or sending it out to reballers for an inexpensive price...if i am wrong on both accounts, i will take culinary classes...

thanks...i will cut and paste this response to the forum...

jack




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