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Fox News College Study. Redistrubution of college grades


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#1 TheEgg

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 12:08 PM

So basically Fox news was polling college students if they thought it would be fair to distribute A's to students who didn't deserve it. Obviously the consensus was "hell no", but this was a way for Fox news to say "See? If you are against redistributing grades to students who didn't earn it, why are you for redistributing wealth to people who didn't earn it.

I wish I could yell at the TV. They are missing some KEY differenced between MONEY and GRADES.


1. Money is about SURVIVAL. Its about being able to afford a roof over your head, food, clothes, water, a car to get to work, etc. Grades are just numbers. There are people who money just comes easily to. There are others who struggle to survive. Yes, some money should be taken from the fortunate and given to the unfortunate so that they can maintain a minimum American standard of living.

2. Get this into your head. Money is not commensurate with hard work. Repeat, Money is not commensurate with hard work. The working class works the hardest (hence the name), yet they are the ones to live paycheck to paycheck. I WISH money was distributed to how hard one works, but that is just not the case.

Supply and demand. A box pushers skills are not as in demand as an accountants. Go ahead and push boxes 'till you're blue in the face and you'll never make close to an accountant's salary. Everyone knows people who work long hours and make less than people who work less.

And then there's the obvious case of people who are born rich and inherit wealth or marry into wealth.

3. There IS such thing as too much money for one person. That makes the republican's stew in their juices to hear, but its true and I'm proud my belief. There are people out there, with millions of dollars who can't possibly spend all that money. Meanwhile there are people without a pot to piss in. People with excess money have a moral obligation to help the common good of society (Conservatives are supposed to call themselves Christian?). I don't care what they did to earn it, but they definitely didn't work a Million times harder than the average joe. I think Jesus Christ would agree that no one person deserves XXX million.


To me, redistribution of wealth isn't taking away from hard working people to give to lazy people who choose not to work so that they can have all the luxuries of the rich. Redistribution of wealth is the moral act of taking money from the fortunate, the lucky, and giving it to those who also work hard, perhaps even HARDER, so that they too can have things such as health-care, and a decent standard of living.

I want to add that I believe capitalism is the best system out there (that I know of). But I would like Fox news, and the republicans, to at least recognize the weaknesses and shortcomings of the system. Don't tell me that the rich all earned their money entirely due to hard work. Don't tell me that the working class doesn't work hard enough.

My grandpa watches Fox news, but I've had it with them. They are elite stuck up people that are just out of touch with how the world works.

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#2 lora777

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 12:15 PM

I think your missing the point..not that I'm a fan of Fox news.

If you take from those that have, regardless of why they have it, your taking something that does not belong to you so you can have what they have.

Taking from those that have to try to make it "Even Steven" will not work. The long term result, which will not take all that long, will be, we will all end up in the poor house and will have given the elite all the power.

Is that not the true plan?

And for those that are "rich" because they work more hours and save instead of spending, so they can live well when they retire and leave something to their children when they die, will have no incentive to do so if they have to give it away.

Can you see how that presents a problem?

#3 lora777

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 05:30 PM

Adding a few more words.

If we got rid of all these unneeded government services, didn't pay women to have babies and paid politicians what they are worth instead of like royalty... We would pay a fraction in taxes and it would not be necessary to take what does not belong to us in order to be able to afford the things we need and have enough left for savings and extras.

*They* do not want us thinking along these lines, so instead point their fingers and the wealthy... Like they aren't and like they are going to sacrifice anything to ensure we have dinner on the table.

Edited by lora777, 26 August 2011 - 05:35 PM.


#4 MissPlaced

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:49 PM

@ TheEgg,
This is a discussion that's been going on dang near since the beginning of time,
These are the lesson's that you learn early in life on every play ground of
every elementary school, The Haves and The Have Not's, I'm not bein a smart eleck
with you here, let me explain what i mean.
I always kinda felt sorry for the Haves on the Playground for this reason, Their
Parent's had taught them early to be cold, selfish, manipulative,mean,, their lives
were ruined before they had barely begun, it's tragic! and all for what?? To keep
the "wealth in the family", they basically traded a precious childs life for "Green
Paper"
It's a "dirty little secret" but one that is well known, let's take the "DUPONT Dynasty"
These folks have had to bulid and maintain an "asslyum" to take care of the results
of their In-breeding, lives ruined and damaged forever, just to keep the "Wealth"
in the family, there are none so blind as those who will not see......

This system has been in place forever and it's not gonna change, Lifes NOT fair,
and that's NOT gonna change as much as we wish it would, the best we can hope for
is to try and make our own "neck "o" the 100 acre wood" a little better then we
found it.

I wish we could sweep DC clean and start from scratch, but that's not gonna happen
personaly I believe that The Have Not's have it far better, They don't make the
headlines or the 5:00 O'clock news, but there out there everyday makin life a
little better for their elderly neighbor,The single Mom up the street, the family
that's fallen on hard times,,ect....ect.....
I think that our time is much better spent in these endever's, the Listening to
"The Talking Heads"
I know their wrong, you know their wrong and they know their wrong! but their
gonna keep going on the same distructive path just to "Keep the wealth in the
Family"
Respectfully

MissPlaced...

You want to be great, Learn how to heal people, To hurt people is easy


Be Kinder then you have to be,you never know what battle someone else is fighting~~~
~~~~Martrys song~~~~~
~~~~My Deliverer~~~~~~

#5 lora777

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 01:28 PM

As far as the have-nots having it better, I would say that used to be correct. But with all the manipulation of tv, movies and lies the young have been spoon fed all their lives, they have about as much a chance as the *haves* of understanding life's truths and realities.

BTW, there are no conservatives verses the liberals as far as the politicians and those that supposedly are telling us who is doing what ..bla bla bla They are 'all' lefties. So Egg, don't be too angry at us because we are being portrayed in an untrue light in order to infuriate you and to split the country in half.

Edited by lora777, 27 August 2011 - 01:32 PM.


#6 MissPlaced

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 10:18 PM

@ lora777,
I'm going to differ a little with you on your first paragraph, it's always been
our job as parents to help our children "weed out" Lies from truth...more parents
then maybe you realize have done their job Well....and it's exactly these parents
and their children that will be able to help those "haves" when their money fails
them.
Where I live, it's a fairly weathy county, and i've seen the kids of the "haves"
and those poor babies don't have a clue about how to survive with out their ATM
card....I worry about them,If their money fails them their sunk....Their additudes
are haughty, cold callous and mean..sooner or later we all learn that those you
step on , on your way up are the exact ones that you will meet on your way down,and
your gonna need their help....and it will be the best lesson of their lives....Love
and a helping hand will melt the coldest of hearts..how many CEO's have had to learn
this lesson for the very first time in their lives....their money failed them, their
"Friends" abandoned them..and it was the lowely clerk in their old office that offered
a hand of mercy to them..helped them to get back on their feet.

You want to be great, Learn how to heal people, To hurt people is easy


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#7 JosiahK

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 08:12 AM

I agree that the comparison between grades and money is fundamentally flawed, but from the opposite angle.
I don't see a good grade as a reward for hard work. I don't see it as a reward for anything in fact. I see it only as an indication of ability. It is important for all of society that grades, and other qualifications, are an accurate measure of ability.
With no or incorrect qualifications we can't know whether the doctor who's making a diagnosis actually knows what the drugs he's prescribing do! So should someone who hasn't bothered to learn basic biology be awarded the 3 As to get into Medical school? Of course not. Granted it would be unfair to the person who actually worked for those A levels, but more importantly it would hazard a grave danger to everyone that incompetent doctor ever treats!
The ideal then is that the medical school would quickly dump him (before they've spent the half million or so it takes to train a doctor) and those ersatz grades would be shown to be as valueless as they truly are. How much simpler for him to simply get a job he can do happily and productively.
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#8 TheEgg

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 05:49 AM

lora-

I guess you can say that ALL taxes are taking something away from someone. The government doesn't have to do a thing to earn it. They just take it.

Guess what though. We have to have taxes for the good of society. Keep that in mind- the good of society. Government has the right to slice the pie (money) how they want.

A problem with the economy is that so much of our money (society's wealth) is LOCKED in the hands of the top 1%. These are people who don't necessarily work harder than the paycheck to paycheck 40+ hour per week working class citizens who make this country work. Many are descendants of descendants who at one time might have even been a slave owner.

No, we can't just hand out free paychecks to everyone, but the pot needs to be stirred a bit. Imagine if some money from a billionaire that would otherwise go towards ensuring that his great x1000 grandchildren will never have to work a day in their life went to help John Q. Public start a business, a BIG business that happens to require a lot of money. That will really stimulate the economy.

I agree with the encouraging having babies comment, but there are things people just need. For example, healthcare has to be provided for those like me who just can't afford it. It just has to. And if you think "ugh, there are better things to spend money on" you will have to answer to the man upstairs when you die. Not saying it should be universal, but no one should have to die because they simply can not afford to have healthcare. That money has to come from somewhere and what better way than taking away a couple million of someones BILLION dollar salary. The billionare will still be richer than anyone can possibly imagine and we can ensure the lower working class has health insurance.

Makes more sense than "Thats my money, get your own"

But I just want you to imagine something. Just for fun, imagine that you are stuck on an island (plane crash). There are 10 of you. You know you will be rescued in 20 days. No one has food except for 1 fat man who packed enough food to feed an army. He has enough food to let everyone survive until rescue arrives. But he wishes not to share. Is that his right? I mean, shucks, he came prepared and you didn't. Thats his food.


I don't want to sound like a socialist, but I don't see MONEY as a rock hard solid possession. You don't really "keep" money. Its meant to be circulated around. You're not even allowed to burn your own money. So as long as there are taxes, everyones money is subject to funding the public good. Everyone needs to pay their fair share. You can not expect to use the same public roads and services without paying your fair share.

Once again, I'm not suggesting taking a ton of money from the rich and give it to people so they won't have to work. The economy is a pot that needs to be stirred. Without any intervention, the few will end up owning all the wealth and we will basically be their slaves with will send us back to draconian times.

Edited by TheEgg, 10 September 2011 - 05:53 AM.


#9 TheEgg

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 05:54 AM

lora-

You can say that ALL taxes are taking something away from someone. The government doesn't have to do a thing to earn it. They just take it.

Guess what. We have to have taxes for the good of society. Keep that in mind- the good of society. Government has the right to slice the pie (money) how they want.

A problem with the economy is that so much of our money (society's wealth) is LOCKED in the hands of the top 1%. These are people who don't necessarily work harder than the paycheck to paycheck 40+ hour per week working class citizens who make this country work. Many are descendants of descendants who at one time might have even been a slave owner.

No, we can't just hand out free paychecks to everyone, but the pot needs to be stirred a bit. Imagine if some money from a billionaire that would otherwise go towards building a lavish castle with marble floors and fine paintings or ensuring that his great x1000 grandchildren will never have to work a day in their life went to help John Q. Public start a business. A big business that requires a lot of money. That will really stimulate the economy.


But I just want you to imagine something. Just for fun, imagine that you are stuck on an island (plane crash). There are 10 of you. You know you will be rescued in 20 days. No one has food except for 1 fat man who packed enough food to feed an army. He has enough food to let everyone survive until rescue arrives. But he wishes not to share. Is that his right? I mean, shucks, he came prepared and you didn't. Thats his food.


I don't want to sound like a socialist, but I don't see MONEY as a rock hard solid possession. You don't really "keep" money. Its meant to be circulated around. You're not even allowed to burn your own money. So as long as there are taxes, everyones money is subject to funding the public good. Everyone needs to pay their fair share. You can not expect to use the same public roads and services without paying your fair share.

Once again, I'm not suggesting taking a ton of money from the rich and give it to people so they won't have to work. The economy is a pot that needs to be stirred. Without any intervention, the few will end up owning all the wealth and we will basically be their slaves with will send us back to draconian times.

#10 lora777

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 07:18 PM

I don't feel the two scenarios.. food on the island or giving everyone A's, are adequate scenarios when talking about taking from the rich in order that those that are less fortunate can live better.

We cannot make our country a Utopia.. There will always be haves and have-nots. The best we can hope for is to have.. rich/middle-class/poor. We used to be a country of more middle-class than the other two and everyone that was able bodied and willing, could make a living..Maybe not a grand-living, but a living non-the-less... When they started handing money out to women for having children, that was the beginning of our serious woes.

As the government gets larger and larger, we get taxed more and more and have more and more poor people and less and less middle-class.

The middle-class used to be the back-bone of America. They voted, took care of their own and helped the needy. Now they are just fighting to keep a roof over their heads.

And........if you believe they are just planning on taxing the richies into oblivion.. I'm so sorry to tell you..that is not the case..

Check out what's going on in Illinois as we speak.

#11 the_patriot11

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 09:21 PM

Honestly, in my opinion, the fortunate should just give to those who need it-without being forced to. But, they dont, and Im not against government assistance for the needy within reason, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere.

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#12 Knight_of_BAAWA

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 09:34 PM

1. There's no difference between initiating force and initiating force. Taking grades from those who earned them is no less an initiation of force than some agency forcibly taking money from those who earned it and giving it to those who did not.

2. No, there is no such thing as too much money for one person. Should you honestly feel there is, please post the objective standard by which you make that claim. Do note that no such standard actually exists.

3. Moral act? It's THEFT!

And before you try some script about republicans this and republicans that: I'm an anarchist. Won't work on me.

4. There aren't any shortcomings of capitalism.

#13 JosiahK

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 01:28 AM

Sorry, but yes pure capitalism does indeed have plenty of flaws and shortcomings.

It cannot provide goods "public goods", being those that suffer from the free rider problem, and it mishandles goods with external costs and benefits because only the effects to the buyer and seller are considered in the transaction.

You could start your research with Wikipedia or just google.
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#14 Knight_of_BAAWA

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 08:40 AM

There're no such things as public goods, and externalities are simply part of cause/effect (and they can be dealt with privately). You can't fix that with government, for you will end up with more problems (unintended consequences).

You might want to try Fallacies of the Public Goods Theory and the Production of Security (pdf) and What are you calling failure?.

#15 lora777

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 01:24 PM

Another thing you have to look at is giving so much control and power to the government is dangerous... Even if Obama were telling the truth of his intentions, what's to keep someone else down the line from using what he's done and doing, to take total control? I don't see how that can logically be denied.

Don't worry about us conservatives, we are the least of your worries. The only ones that truly exist are the little people with no power anyway.

That's what should really scare you.

Stop letting them turn you against the hard working tax payers and instead take a good hard look at "them". At this point we could still do something if we stopped fighting each other and stood together to make them accountable.

It won't be long, it's at our door now, before there is no turning back.. Looking to whoever gets into office after this one is out is just fruitless. He/she is just going to be another puppet regardless of what party he's supposed to be representing.

I'm very aware that those that are sold out to the ridiculous thinking that the Republicans and Christians are the source of all troubles and if they were all stopped, life would then be one big party time, are going to take this all the way and nothing anyone says will change that.

Edited by lora777, 11 September 2011 - 01:26 PM.





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