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Recent build fails to start


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#1 frozenham

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 05:28 PM

I have recently built a new machine with an i7 quad core, Windows 7, 500W Antec PSU, Gigabyte motherboard, 4GB RAM, and a GeForce GTX 460 video card. It has worked well until today when I returned from the softball field to find it powered off. Upon attempting to restart, I get absolutely nothing. I have unplugged everything, toggled switches, replugged, confirmed outlet is functional, but no signs of life from my build. I am suspecting a faulty PSU, but am not talented enough to confirm it and not really financially suited to start guessing which parts to replace. All help will be appreciated. Thank you for your time and consideration. I will be watching this post with anticipation from a borrowed laptop.

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Aaron

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#2 Torn05

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 05:43 PM

I'm not really confirming anything, But I'm thinking you'll want/need a higher Wattage PSU anyway.

#3 killerx525

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 05:54 PM

Can you borrow a friends power supply to test out if the current one is fried?

>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#4 frozenham

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 05:59 PM

A borrowed PSU is a good idea, I don't have access to one as quickly as I'd like... I have an older lower wattage PSU from older machine... Would that old PSU tell us anything? Dangerous to plug that in? Maybe unplug video card and try older PSU?

#5 killerx525

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 06:09 PM

I don't think it's a good idea to plug a older lover wattage psu. If you can't borrow a psu from a friend then your gonna have to try powering it up with the old without the graphics card.

>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#6 Suicide King

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 07:28 PM

One quick way to test your PSU would be to jumper it. To best way to do this is to:

1) Unplug all devices connected to the PSU -- if it is faulty, the last thing we want is to supply faulty power to those other devices. Also unplug the power from your PSU, so it is completely off and the power switch turned off.

2) Get a paperclip -- preferably one covered in rubber insulation. If you cannot find this common type, take a normal metal one and wrap the whole thing in electrical tape (except for about 1/2 an inch on each end. It is better to use a thin paperclip, rather than a thick one, as it will fit easier to jumper your PSU.

3) On the 20/24 pin main motherboard power cable, there is a single green wire. You want to stick one uncovered end of the paperclip so it contacts with the green wire of the 20/24 pin connector, and the other end to the nearest black (ground) wire on the 20/24 pin conenctor -- although any black wire on the 20/24 should do, since they are ground wires. This will allow the power supply to turn on without being plugged into the motherboard.

4) Plug the power chord back into the PSU and turn on the switch.

At this point, your PSU should turn on. If it does not, then there is a fault with your PSU. If it does turn on... it could still be the PSU -- but at least we know it turns on and more advanced tests might need to be done.

When you are done, be sure to switch off, and unplug your PSU before removing the jumper paperclip.

Edited by Suicide King, 02 April 2011 - 07:29 PM.


#7 dc3

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 10:31 PM

When you press the power button on the front of the computer it creates a short between two terminals on the motherboard which initiates the start of the PSU. The procedure described above can be used to determine if the motherboard is the cause of your start up problem, but isn't a accurate means of testing the PSU. The procedure outlined below is intended to test the PSU rail voltages to be certain that they fall within their proper perimiters.

Please note, there are certain safety precautions which are outlined below which should also be applied if you are going to use the procedure in the previous post.


Reading PSU Rail Voltages

Caution: Please read this before continuing.


∑ Since it will be necessary for your computer to be on during this procedure, you need to be aware that you will be working with live 12Volt DC potentials, which if handled improperly may lead to electrical shock.

∑ There are electronics inside the case that are very susceptible to electrostatic discharges. To protect your computer, touch the metal of the case to discharge yourself of any electrostatic charges before touching any of the components inside.

∑ If you are not comfortable doing this procedure, then I would suggest that you not use this tutorial. The risks involved are minimal, but are there nevertheless. Anyone who uses this tutorial will be doing so at their own risk.


There are two devices commonly used to read the rail voltages: a PSU tester, and a multimeter.

The PSU tester is the easiest to use since all that is necessary is to plug the different connectors into the tester and read the results on the LCD display. The problem with most of these is that they only perform a pass/fail test. They will not provide you with actual voltage readings.

There are a variety of multiple meters, but this tutorial will address Analog and Digital multimeters. The advantage of these meters is that you will be able to obtain accurate real time voltage readings.

For those of you who wish to know more about multimeters there is an excellent article in Wikipedia.


Analog Multimeter

Posted Image


An Analog multimeter is a little more complicated to use. Both Analog and Digital multimeters need to be set to the appropriate voltage, but with an Analog multimeter, you will need to choose the voltage range and must read the proper scale.

The Analog multimeter uses a needle display which moves from 0 across the scale until it reaches the voltage being tested. This multimeter has five major linear divisions with multiple scales to read a variety of ranges. An example would be three different ranges. The first is graduated in increments of 0 through 5, the second, 0 through 10, and the third, 0 through 25. Each of these ranges are subdivided into divisions that are graduated into tenths. In order to read 12 volts the 0 through 25 range would be the appropriate one.

Because DC voltage has positive and negative potentials this device is polar sensitive, this means that if you reverse the two probes when reading a positive DC voltage it will read as a negative voltage. This is actually necessary to read negative DC voltages. The two probes are differentiated by their color, Black (negative), and Red (positive). To read a positive DC voltage, the correct probes must be used with their corresponding potentials (positive to positive and negative to negative).

With the probes being used normally to read a negative DC voltage, the needle moves from the 0 to the left, "pegging" the needle. By reversing the probes you can properly read the negative voltages.

Digital Multimeter

Posted Image


The Digital multimeter (DMM) is much simpler to use. As was mentioned previously, you will need to set the appropriate voltage. One of the advantages is that the DMM has an LCD display with a numeric readout, so there are not any multiple scales to read. Another advantage is that most DMMs are autoranging when reading voltages, which means that you will not need to set the range with these DMMs. A DMM will read both positive and negative DC voltages and display them correctly. When reading a negative voltage, a minus sign will appear on the display before the numeric value. This still is a polar sensitive device, so you will still need to use the positive and negative probes with their corresponding potentials.

There are five different DC rail voltages which are color coded. The Black wires are always negative.

Yellow +12VDC

Blue -12VDC

Red +5VDC

White -5VDC

Orange +3.3VDC


There are only three voltages that can be measured easily without disconnecting the 20/24 pin connector from the motherboard: +12V, +5V, and +3.3V.

The +12V and +5V voltages can be read from a four pin Molex power connector.

Four pin Molex power connector

Posted Image


The same voltages can be taken from a four pin SATA power connector, but in order to read the +3.3V you will need to read this from a five pin SATA power connector as seen below.

Five pin SATA power connector.

Posted Image

To read these voltages you will need to insert the Black (-) probe into any of the black sockets, and insert the Red (+) probe in the different colored voltage sockets. To read the voltages from a SATA power connector it is easiest to insert the probes into the bac k of the connector where the wires enter. Unfortunately the sockets of the modular SATA power connectors are not accessible from the back, so the readings will need to be made from the socket side. Some probes are going to be too large to fit in these sockets, so you may need to insert a piece of wire into the socket of which you want to read the voltage of and place the probe on this for your reading. To reduce the potential of creating a short I would suggest taking the ground potential from another connector so that the two wires will remain physically separated.

Caution: It is very important to make sure that you don't allow the two probes to touch each other when taking the voltage readings. This will cause a short which could damage the PSU or other components.

To get accurate readings of the rail voltages it is important that there be a load on the PSU. In order to do this I would suggest downloading Prime95 for this purpose. This program was designed to be used by overclockers to put a full load on the RAM and CPU to determine the stability of their overclocking. Because of this it will put stress on the CPU and RAM which will create higher than normal temperatures. For this reason I would suggest not running this program any longer than is necessary. I would also suggest that an inspection be made of the interior of the case to make sure that there isnít an accumulation of dust which would impede adequate cooling. Pay special attention to the heat sink and fan assembly on the CPU. If there is a dedicated graphics card with a fan installed on it, look at this fan as well.


Readings should not have variances larger than +/- five percent.

Maximum.........Minimum
12.6V.................11.4V
5.25V.................4.75V
3.47V.................3.14V

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#8 Dmacf10

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 10:42 PM

Another option for testing your power supply if you're not comfortable using a multimeter or using jumper wires is a simple power supply tester. You can get them pretty cheap, I own this one , it gives you a simple green light for each voltage, if one of the lights is not lit or nothing happens at all, you have a bad power supply.

#9 Suicide King

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 11:05 PM

The procedure described above can be used to determine if the motherboard is the cause of your start up problem, but isn't a accurate means of testing the PSU.


I didn't mean to give the impression the method I described was an accurate method of testing the PSU. I just wanted to see if the PSU would turn on at all before moving onto more advanced tests, such as a multimeter or PSU tester.

#10 dc3

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 11:28 PM


Dmacf10,

The procedure posted above does mention the use of a PSU tester. It is a quick and easy tool to use, but it is a pass/fail device which will not provide you with accurate readings. Another consideration is that you will not be able to get an accurate Voltage reading without placing a load on the PSU.

Suicide King
,

My post was only meant to clarify what the test was originally meant for, a caveat for those that would interpret this as a test for a PSU.:thumbup2:








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#11 Dmacf10

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 12:15 AM

dc3,

I completely agree with you, a psu tester is not 100% accurate as most of them do not provide voltages. I have seen some PSU's(most of the time too small for the hardware current draw)that don't show voltage drops until they are under load, so unless you measured voltages with the 20/24 pin connector attached to the motherboard and the system powered on, you wouldn't see the problem. The only reason I posted a link to a PSU tester was because if you are not familiar with multimeter's, they can be very confusing.

Edited by Dmacf10, 03 April 2011 - 12:16 AM.


#12 killerx525

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 12:59 AM

It's all up to the OP on which way his gonna do this.

>Michael 
System1: CPU- Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.4GHz, CPU Cooler- Noctua NH-D14, RAM- G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB Kit(4Gx4) DDR3 2133MHz, SSD/HDD- Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB/Seagate Barracuada 3TB, GPU- 2x EVGA GTX980 Superclocked @1360/MHz1900MHz, Motherboard- Asus X99 Deluxe, Case- Custom Mac G5, PSU- EVGA P2-1000W, Soundcard- Realtek High Definition Audio, OS- Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Games: APB: Reloaded, Hours played: 3100+  System2: Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15inch   OFw63FY.png


#13 Suicide King

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 09:12 AM

My post was only meant to clarify what the test was originally meant for, a caveat for those that would interpret this as a test for a PSU.:thumbup2:[url="user-575413/dmacf10/"]


Good point. Not everyone is going to read into things that the regular posters here.

Just to clarify though, not all PSU testers are pass/fail. There are some which will output the current voltages on a small screen. They'll cost you a little more, but I highly recommend them for just this purpose.

Edited by Suicide King, 03 April 2011 - 09:16 AM.


#14 frozenham

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 10:46 AM

Wow. Fantastic responses. Thank you for your interest and time, guys. I will start with the jumper trick and if it passes, proceed to the multimeter tests.

The PSU is just my hunch, fairly uneducated guess. Where would you guys be looking first? What am I missing? Thanks again. I'll report back tonight.

#15 frozenham

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 05:41 PM

I used a jumper paperclip and left the psu connected to the case fan, and it did in fact start both its own fan and the case fan. I was hoping this would be an easy answer. No such luck. I don't have an ammeter here. What would you guys recommend?




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