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Libya...should the international community intervene?


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#1 Casey_boy

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 07:31 AM

So, as I'm sure most of you are aware there is political turmoil in Libya, and a few other dictator states, at the moment. What appears to be crimes against humanity are taking place with state governments/dictators shooting/torturing citizens of their own countries.

The citizens of Libya and other countries are rebelling and fighting for their right to democracy and for those of us who live in "Western" societies this right seems a fundamental right to which all should be entitled - but do we have a right to enforce it?

Do we, the international community, have the right to interfere in other country's politics and support rebellions? Col. Gaddafi, for instance, is arguing that the rebels are terrorists - so do we support these "terrorists"? Bahrain has the military support of several Gulf states to help with "public order" - so do we condemn this?

If so, what measures should we take? Invading a county is never well received despite the good intentions. What of a "no fly zone"? Are political and trade embargoes enough?

Thoughts...

Casey

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#2 thelittleduck

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 11:52 AM

I think the international community should stick to a humanitarian effort. Anything like a no-fly zone wouldn't work without US participation anyway.

I fear it's going to be a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

#3 Andrew

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 01:47 PM

The fledgling United States would never have won its independence if not for "foreign intervention." While I certainly agree that one cannot "enforce" democracy, one can surely lend a hand.

#4 thelittleduck

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 01:50 PM

True Andrew. But because something was right in one case, doesn't mean it is right in another. The main reason I am against it, is I just don't think I can handle all the protests.

#5 Casey_boy

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 01:55 PM

quote: Anything like a no-fly zone wouldn't work without US participation anyway.

I notice that the Arab League are in favour (bar two member states) of a no-fly zone - should it be up to them to enforce it? Rather than asking the US/NATO/EU?

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#6 thelittleduck

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 02:09 PM

I don't think the Arab League have the power. It may well mean destroying many military targets. I doubt Gaddafi will just accept the zone.

Even if the Arab League could manage it, they would suffer great lose first. So I stick to saying it is not possible without the US leading the way.

#7 Andrew

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:54 PM

"But because something was right in one case, doesn't mean it is right in another."

By the same token, it doesn't mean it is wrong either.


Let me clarify: I'm not suggesting that the US invade Libya. The US is not the global police officer, not should it be. This should be the purview of the United Nations.

Edited by Andrew, 17 March 2011 - 03:55 PM.


#8 thelittleduck

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 04:08 PM

"By the same token, it doesn't mean it is wrong either."

Shall we both agree to just stop stating the obvious?

"The US is not the global police officer, not should it be. This should be the purview of the United Nations."

I agree.

#9 Andrew

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 04:46 PM

"Shall we both agree to just stop stating the obvious?"

NEVER!!!!

#10 Casey_boy

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 05:51 PM

Latest update:

quote:The UN Security Council has backed a resolution on Libya that supports a no-fly zone and "all necessary measures" to protect civilians.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12781009

Also interesting...

quote:It is not thought that the US would be involved in the first strikes, but the British and French are likely to get logistical backup from Arab allies.

Casey

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#11 thelittleduck

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 04:50 AM

"NEVER!!!!" :hysterical:

"quote:The UN Security Council has backed a resolution on Libya that supports a no-fly zone and "all necessary measures" to protect civilians."

So, it begins.

"quote:It is not thought that the US would be involved in the first strikes, but the British and French are likely to get logistical backup from Arab allies."

I would have thought they would use the American GPS system though. The UK has a system called Skynet, but I don't think it is as effective as the American one.

#12 Layback Bear

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 02:57 PM

Before getting rid of what you got make sure of what you will be getting to replace him. There are some crazy's out there even worse than him.

#13 Casey_boy

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 05:34 AM

@Layback Bear,

I think that is a very valid point and explains the past consensus on a lot of dictator states. The US and the EU have "put up" with these states in the past (and even supported them) because, even though they may not have liked their policies, they were stable.

A case of "better the devil you know" I fear.

I find it hard that the UN mandate authorises such action, yet does not allow for the direct removal of Godaffi. So we bomb a few of his air defences, he calms down for a few months (or years) and then it kicks off again - then what?

Casey

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#14 Drovers Dog

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 06:07 AM

I honestly think that Gaddafi is being reminded of an Air Strike from many years ago, that one made him pull his head in.

Link for the younger Members.

http://flightjournal.com/ME2/Sites/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=PubPagi&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle+Title&mid=13B2F0D0AFA04476A2ACC02ED28A405F&tier=4&id=E1E81160B3F2485E81EA65C81F150343&SiteID=20EB32E87F7D4A9C98F2980F81E922D1

The UN and tha Allies are once again reminding him that they will not tolerate what he is doing to his Citizens, this time. All out War on the ground is not neccessary, let his people decide his fate. That is Democracy at it's finest.

Isn't it funny that he now starts to talk about Terrorists after you read the Link? :hysterical:

I guess he doesn't use Google?

Ray.

Edited by Drovers Dog, 21 March 2011 - 06:28 AM.

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There is a saying, "You just can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" it means "to be happy with what you have and not look for the impossible"......DD saying

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#15 Drix08

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 07:42 PM

And the war has just begun..


I pray for the people in Libya and to the world.




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