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Power on, No POST after Hard Drive upgrades


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#1 SuperShadow

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 03:44 AM

So I had a custom built machine (let's call it "custom") with the following specs:

AMD Phenom x4 965 (stock fan)
Corsair 650w PSU
Antec 300 case
12GB ram
GIGABYTE GA-MA790GPT-UD3H motherboard
Sapphire Radeon 5770
Western Digital 320gb hard drive
DVD-RW

I wanted to upgrade the hard drive so I installed a Samsung F3 1TB today (bought brand new from Newegg). I left the WD in there, but disconnected, I wanted to connect it later after I put an OS on the Samsung. Well, I plugged the computer back in and turned it on, but there was nothing. No POST, no beeps (no PC speaker), nothing. I reconnected the WD drive and disconnected the Samasung drive, no go. I then removed everything from the computer except the PSU, CPU, and motherboard with no change. I tried both the motherboard display and video card display ports with no change. I took out the CMOS battery and left it out for 5+ minutes before re-inserting with no success. Computer powers on, all fans spin (including the CPU fan), but nothing shows up on screen. The hard drive light is solid for about 5-10 seconds before going dark.

I then decided to take the old 320GB hard drive and put in a 2nd back up computer (let's call it "compaq"). I installed the hard drive into the PC:

Athlon X2 4200+
Compaq Presario Box Computer
3GB ram
Gigabyte Radeon 4550
DVD-RW

This PC, which was working with a different Seagate 160gb drive just yesterday, would not POST with the 320gb I put in there. I would turn it on and there was nothing, no beeps, no POST. I then took out the 320gb and returned everything back to when the computer last worked and it's the same thing: power on, no POST. Again, it powers on, all fans spin (cpu fan included) and nothing on screen, no POST.

What should I consider doing next to solve these issues?

I have taken the Western Digital drive originally in my custom PC and put it in a 3rd PC to get some data off of it. This 3rd computer booted fine and I was easily able to copy some data off the WD drive. I am dealing with all SATA drives.

Thanks for any help.

Edited by SuperShadow, 05 March 2011 - 05:58 AM.


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#2 MrBruce1959

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 04:46 AM

Just a quick question, have you checked the hard drives closely for jumpers and made sure if there are jumpers that they are set correctly for the set up you are trying to put together?

Some SATA hard drives have jumpers on them similar to how a slave and master is configured on PATA/IDE type drives.

You did not supply a hard drive model number so we can look at the possibility that a jumper setting does exist.

You should check the documentation that came with the hard drive if you still have it, or check the label on the drive for any signs of a jumper.

This jumper can also be one that helps older systems to see the drive as a smaller size to resolve issues with some systems.

Any time you add a hard drive or optical drive to the PATA/IDE or SATA ports, you should always make sure the drives are recognized in the SYSTEM BIOS setup utility first before attempting to boot the system off of a newly added drive.

There may be a menu in the BIOS that has to be selected to auto detect and configure any new drives that are added to the system.

I see where you are now stating that you are no longer able to get a POST or video on two of the computers even though you have returned both systems back to the way they were before you added the second hard drive, is this correct?

Have you tried booting the systems with no hard drive installed just to see if the POST displays an image on the screen?

It may warn that there is no bootable device present or no OS installed, but it should still display something on the screen.

Bruce.
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#3 SuperShadow

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 05:58 AM

Re: MrBruce1959

The Drives do not have jumper settings. The drives I'm referring to are the Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAKS, the SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB, and the Seagate I believe is a Barracuda 7200.7 (or something to that effect).

Yes, I have returned both computers to their original set up before upgrading drives and there is still no POST.

I have tried booting the systems with no hard drives, ram, CD-ROM, and video card. There were no POSTs at all. I have reduced the number of connected items to the case, PSU, motherboard, and CPU with no success. The computer just turns on (on the custom built machine the hard drive indicator light is solid for about 10 seconds before going dark) and there is nothing (no signal) to the screen. There is no POST. I have tried both video inputs on the motherboard (with video card removed) and the video card inputs with no effect either. I took the CMOS battery out the of the custom machine for 5+ minutes and re-installed it with no success.

I plan to start trying exchanging the PSUs, taking apart/putting back together the computers, and possibly even breadoarding to see what the issue is. However I wanted to see if there was anything I should try before taking these steps. I really have no idea what has gone wrong and what I should try.

Edited by SuperShadow, 05 March 2011 - 06:07 AM.


#4 MrBruce1959

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 06:44 AM

Here is some information regarding the SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB hard drive.

Check page 2 for the SATA hard drive information.

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200704/20070419200104171_3.5_Install_Gudie_Eng_200704.pdf

It is this drive that seems to have caused you the problems you are facing with your other two computers.

This is copy and pasted from page 2.

Note: In some rare cases SATA 1.5Gb/s hosts can not establish SATA
interface connection with SATA 3.0Gb/s devices due to interface
protocol issues.
In this case you should switch your drive to SATA 1.5Gb/s speed
with a software which we are providing via www.samsunghdd.com.

Also, here is what I mentioned earlier.

1. Making Computer Detect the New Device

Note: Run the CMOS (BIOS) set-up program to detect the new hard disk
drive.
1. Go into CMOS screen during the booting of the computer. For descriptive
details of the program, refer to the computer's user's manual.
2. Make the computer detect the hard disk.
3. Save the changed details and exit.

I added the above information just for others to see, I realize you already did the last three options.

Other than what I posted above, I can't see why you are having an issue unless there was a problem with the drive shorting something out. However it appears it worked fine on the third computer you connected it to.

Bruce.
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#5 SuperShadow

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 07:40 AM

Here is some information regarding the SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB hard drive.

Check page 2 for the SATA hard drive information.

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200704/20070419200104171_3.5_Install_Gudie_Eng_200704.pdf

It is this drive that seems to have caused you the problems you are facing with your other two computers.

This is copy and pasted from page 2.

Note: In some rare cases SATA 1.5Gb/s hosts can not establish SATA
interface connection with SATA 3.0Gb/s devices due to interface
protocol issues.
In this case you should switch your drive to SATA 1.5Gb/s speed
with a software which we are providing via www.samsunghdd.com.


So not establishing the SATA interface connection could result in no POST? I believe my motherboard has SATA 3.0 GB/s, which means this should not be an issue where I need to switch to SATA 1.5 GB/s. I am also unable to find the software the quote is talking about. Nevertheless I do not see why this would not be a simple "plug and play" issue. Secondly, the Samsung did do something to my custom built machine, but I never put the Samsung into the Compaq machine.

So there are three machines:

Custom
Compaq
HP

There are 3 hard drives:

Samsung (New drive I bought, tried it in "custom" and now no POST)
Western Digital (originally the main drive in "custom", I replaced it with Samsung, then put the Western Digital in "Compaq" which then ceased to POST)
Seagate (the original drive in Compaq, which when I reconnected it as the master drive, Compaq still won't POST)

Now I removed all components from "Custom" and "Compaq" except for PSU, motherboard, and case and neither machine will POST.

Also, here is what I mentioned earlier.

1. Making Computer Detect the New Device

Note: Run the CMOS (BIOS) set-up program to detect the new hard disk
drive.
1. Go into CMOS screen during the booting of the computer. For descriptive
details of the program, refer to the computer's user's manual.
2. Make the computer detect the hard disk.
3. Save the changed details and exit.

I added the above information just for others to see, I realize you already did the last three options.

Other than what I posted above, I can't see why you are having an issue unless there was a problem with the drive shorting something out. However it appears it worked fine on the third computer you connected it to.

Bruce.


The problem with these instructions is I can't get to the BIOS at all. The computer turns on to nothing (no motherboard logo, no BIOS screen at all). The third computer handled the Western Digital as a slave drive with no problems. I didn't try the Samsung on that third computer. I don't see how a hard drive could short my computer, so my assumption is I must have done something else during the install process to cause both computers to fail POST.

Edited by SuperShadow, 05 March 2011 - 07:41 AM.


#6 MrBruce1959

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 02:23 PM

Thanks for the re-cap on the sequence of how things prevailed with this issue you are having, although I do believe you did quite well in your opening post, I may have lost my way while doing some research. But the re-cap has been most helpful. :)

I will start with the custom computer first, then we will move to the Compaq computer once we resolve the issue with this computer.

GIGABYTE GA-MA790GPT-UD3H

For support, I am adding a Gigabyte support link here for this motherboard.

http://www.gigabyte.bz/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3143&dl=1#ov

Here is a PDF version of your motherboard owners manual. (This document is down-loadable)

http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-ma790gpt-ud3h_e.pdf


You have a computer that powers up the case fans, however the motherboard appears to be dead.
No post activity is the result.

Looking at a map of your motherboard, the only quick probability would be the power from the PSU is failing to supply power to the motherboard.

Check the 24 pin main psu to motherboard power connector to make sure it is fully seated in the socket. I do not know if you removed this power connector at any point while installing the hard drive, but if you did, make sure it is properly plugged in and in the correct position if your PSU only has 20 pins.

Also, you motherboard has an 8 pin ATX 12 Volt 2X4 power connector which is right next to the video VGA port, make sure this is plugged in and fully seated into the socket.

Make sure there are no broken or loose wires in any of the power connectors.

Video issues can be disregarded as a possibility, because the POST can still take place regardless of video issues, the system would simply have no display and the BIOS would output a POST beep code error as long as the system speaker is functional.

I have to ask if you used the proper precautions while working on the computer.

Such as powering off the computer and unplugging it from the AC power line?

Such as taking precautions against ESD damage by grounding yourself to a grounded source before touching any components inside the computer case?

Have you made sure that the motherboard is not grounding out somewhere to the computer case?

On the link above for the owners manual please check the trouble shooting charts on section 5-3-2
(page 97), you can download the manual from the link above.

Please keep us posted, if you have not fried this motherboard in any way it should make it to the POST screen.

Bruce.
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#7 SuperShadow

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 05:58 PM

Thanks for the re-cap on the sequence of how things prevailed with this issue you are having, although I do believe you did quite well in your opening post, I may have lost my way while doing some research. But the re-cap has been most helpful. :)

I will start with the custom computer first, then we will move to the Compaq computer once we resolve the issue with this computer.

GIGABYTE GA-MA790GPT-UD3H

For support, I am adding a Gigabyte support link here for this motherboard.

http://www.gigabyte.bz/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3143&dl=1#ov

Here is a PDF version of your motherboard owners manual. (This document is down-loadable)

http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-ma790gpt-ud3h_e.pdf


You have a computer that powers up the case fans, however the motherboard appears to be dead.
No post activity is the result.

Looking at a map of your motherboard, the only quick probability would be the power from the PSU is failing to supply power to the motherboard.

Check the 24 pin main psu to motherboard power connector to make sure it is fully seated in the socket. I do not know if you removed this power connector at any point while installing the hard drive, but if you did, make sure it is properly plugged in and in the correct position if your PSU only has 20 pins.

Also, you motherboard has an 8 pin ATX 12 Volt 2X4 power connector which is right next to the video VGA port, make sure this is plugged in and fully seated into the socket.

Make sure there are no broken or loose wires in any of the power connectors.


I didn't touch any of the power cables in either computer and didn't disconnect or reconnect them. I just made sure they were connected and still no POST.

Video issues can be disregarded as a possibility, because the POST can still take place regardless of video issues, the system would simply have no display and the BIOS would output a POST beep code error as long as the system speaker is functional.

I have to ask if you used the proper precautions while working on the computer.

Such as powering off the computer and unplugging it from the AC power line?

Such as taking precautions against ESD damage by grounding yourself to a grounded source before touching any components inside the computer case?

Have you made sure that the motherboard is not grounding out somewhere to the computer case?

On the link above for the owners manual please check the trouble shooting charts on section 5-3-2
(page 97), you can download the manual from the link above.

Please keep us posted, if you have not fried this motherboard in any way it should make it to the POST screen.

Bruce.


The ESD damage is what I'm worried about. In both cases I took some risks. One, I was working on carpet. Two, I didn't use any ESD equipment, but I tried to make sure I touched the PSU (not plugged in) or some metal before touching any computer part. For the Compaq, I don't think I even touched the motherboard one bit, as it was all just taking out a hard drive enclosure and connecting SATA cables from one hard drive to another. I then plugged in 3 usb peripherals and 2 monitors (on a 218w generic PSU) and powered on. There was no POST and hasn't been one since.

I'm pretty sure the motherboard is not grounding out somewhere, as it sits on top of some standoffs and I didn't touch any of those. I can understand frying the motherboard on my Custom built PC because I was poking around the motherboard with the necessary static precautions, but I don't understand how I could also fry the motherboard of the Compaq when I didn't even touch the motherboard.

At this point, I'm left with it being a motherboard, psu, cpu, or case issue causing these problems. The PSUs for both computers power on, spin their fans, and appears to power other things ok. I can't really check the CPU. I plan to buy a PC speaker and see if I hear any beeps during the start up of either machine. The next option for me is to replace the motherboard, since one of the boards is still in warranty. The other I guess I will purchase a new board. That's really my next option to troubleshoot further.

Edited by SuperShadow, 05 March 2011 - 06:04 PM.


#8 MrBruce1959

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 09:53 PM

Well I have to admit for the most part you have me stumped a bit at my end.

Trying to fix a computer via long distance is not always easy to do, although if I had the computer in my possession, I would use a VOM multimeter to check for voltage on the various circuits of the motherboard.

Those stand-offs are made of a metallic material, that can easily short out two circuits that lay close together if for any reason the motherboard shifts a bit.

I am not saying this is what happened, but as well as motherboards are made, there is always the possibility that a stand-off mounting hole in the computer case is just a bit off center for the hole in the motherboard.

When you think about it, you have two parts that are made by two totally different factories, if either factory's specs are a hair off, this can cause the stand-off or the screw to make contact where it shouldn't.

Try removing the motherboard from the computer case and hook everything back up to it while it is laying flat on a non-metallic surface and see if it POSTS or not.

While it is out of the case, you will now be able to inspect the board more closely for any issues that you can not see while it is still inside the case.

Make sure none of those jumpers have become loose on the motherboard.

It does not always happen that ESD damages a motherboard every time you touch something inside the computer, it does happen, but not 100% of the time.

Strangely enough, though, a defect could have been hiding in the circuitry somewhere and any stress at all could have caused an open circuit to develop in one of the motherboards.

See any signs of leaking capacitors anywhere near the CPU? I see a lot of those that go bad and leak, bulge or lean over from the bottom seal blowing out.

I have to admit your situation is unusual and that is to have 3 systems act up at the same time like this.

Seems you are having your share of bad luck. :(

Bruce.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 05 March 2011 - 09:55 PM.

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#9 SuperShadow

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 12:02 AM

Well I have to admit for the most part you have me stumped a bit at my end.

...

Bruce.


I do have a multimeter in my possession, but would you know of any resources that explain what exactly to measure and look for? I haven't used a multimeter before and haven't tried measuring voltage on a motherboard before either.

I plan to remove the motherboard tomorrow and I may just try to POST it on piece of wood or remount it again.

The capaciters are all solid capaciters and I didn't notice any thing out of the ordinary when examining them.

Yeah I find it very odd I could have fried 2 different motherboards in two different computers within hours of each other.

Edited by SuperShadow, 06 March 2011 - 12:03 AM.


#10 MrBruce1959

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 12:40 AM

Okay I am going to start providing as much information as I can for you and any other members out there that care to use it, so please don't mind me being a bit long winded at times.

I will provide links to other web sites where I feel its applicable, so that the size of my posts will not be too over-whelming and put people to sleep. :wacko: LOL!

Seriously, the number one rule to success is not to get too over whelmed and frustrated!

Treat the problem as if it was a computer game such as Quake III Arena, you ever play that game?

Those Frags are the villains, such as flobos, your computer problem is flobos, lets blow his azz out of the arena and become victorious!

Once you become frustrated, the game is over, you'll smash the motherboard and be done with it, I've been there done that a few times, but mostly with junk motherboards, not a new motherboard that could be saved such as one of the ones your working on.

This is how you learn to repair a computer, you gain knowledge and experience and the tasks become easier to accomplish.

With that, I am going to post a link to a web site, this link below is from a web site page for PSU (power supplies).
It shows on one of the pages the various power supply connectors and the actual voltage that it carries and its polarity, (+) or (-) or chassis ground.

Read through this section and become familiar with this stuff.
The VOM meter is a very useful tool in electronics repair, because it gives an accurate status reading of any given circuit under test.

Here is the link to playtool.com, please read down this entire page, the information there is a "must know" if you want to save this motherboard.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

There are other links in the box at the top of this page that are related to the PSU, check those out as well.

Any questions? please feel free to ask.

Bruce.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 06 March 2011 - 12:44 AM.

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#11 SuperShadow

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 04:48 AM

I managed to get my custom build system (the one with the Antec case) POSTing again. Basically I removed everything from the PC except the PSU, case, motherboard, cpu, and one stick of RAM and I tried powering on. The computer still didn't post, but then I decided to hold the "reset" button and after a bit the machine rebooting and successfully completed POST with the BIOS appearing on screen. My only guess is that the reset button was stuck or I managed to recover the BIOS.

Sadly my Compaq PC doesn't have a reset button, so even after I pulled everything and tried booting with only the PSU, case, motherboard, cpu, and one stick of RAM, the Compaq still doesn't POST. My assumption is I somehow badly corrupted the BIOS and I need to find a way to correct it.

#12 MrBruce1959

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 01:43 PM

Sadly my Compaq PC doesn't have a reset button, so even after I pulled everything and tried booting with only the PSU, case, motherboard, cpu, and one stick of RAM, the Compaq still doesn't POST. My assumption is I somehow badly corrupted the BIOS and I need to find a way to correct it.

Did you try removing the battery on this motherboard and moving the CLR_CMOS over to the other jumper?

Since I can not see your motherboard, I can not see how they have it worded on the board, but there should be some mention of it in your motherboard owners manual as to its location and which pins are the clear CMOS pins.

If you feel you corrupted your BIOS in any way, you may be able to recover it by downloading the proper flash utility and the correct BIOS .bin file for your motherboard.

I do not know if your system has a floppy drive installed in it or not because newer computer systems no longer come with floppy drives.
However some of them still have the floppy drive port installed on the motherboard.

If this is possible, you could use a floppy drive.
You would have to format the floppy as a boot disk.
Remove the files windows put on the disk during the format.
Copy the flash utility to the floppy disk and the BIOS firmware .bin file.
Boot to the floppy and hope for the best, that it boots from the floppy.

If you can get this far, there is a good chance, that your BIOS firmware will be updated.

Please let me know what your options are.
Is a BIOS flash possible using a floppy drive?

Other options may not be possible because you can not enter the BIOS to choose other boot options such as a CD or USB device.

You may want to see if your motherboard has a jumper to reset the BIOS firmware to default.
This feature is Incorporated into some motherboards BIOS chips.

Bruce.
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#13 SuperShadow

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:03 AM

The link to my motherboard documentation is here:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01237548&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&product=3740345#N420

I will try to reset the CMOS when I have the chance. There is no floppy drive.

#14 MrBruce1959

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:36 AM

Your motherboard has a floppy drive port right next to the ATX 20 pin power connecter.
If you had to, you can get a used floppy drive and a floppy drive cable at a computer shop or online.

Your CLR_CMOS is right next to your PRIMARY hard drive IDE port, there are two blue colored jumpers right next to each other.

They do not offer much for the drivers and software downloads, in fact there are no drivers or firmware offered. :blink:

Thats HP for ya. <_<

Let me know how you make out with the clr_cmos jumper and make sure you remove that battery first, the jumper will short out the battery if it is still in the slot.

Bruce.
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#15 SuperShadow

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 05:22 PM

I tried resetting the BIOS (even took the battery out like instructed) and still no luck. Nothing appears on screen, even though the CPU fan spins up. I even took the board out and tried to boot it without the case and the same thing happens.

I tried creating a BIOS boot CD to try and reflash the BIOS, but since the machine does not pass the POST there's no way to get it to boot off the CD.

I guess it's time for a replacement board.

Edited by SuperShadow, 13 March 2011 - 05:24 PM.





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