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System failing to boot, no beeps, no video


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#1 William Dorr

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 12:27 AM

About a month ago, I inherited a computer from my work that just plain failed to boot up one day. I used an Antec PSU tester and determined that the power supply was good, and just to make sure I even plugged in a different PSU (which also tested good), and still got nothing from the system. The video was integrated to that MB, and a replacement video card in the PCI Express slot didn't solve anything. I decided it must be the motherboard (ASRock 775i65GV), and found a replacement on eBay (ASRock ConRoe1333-eSATA2) that would support the processor (P4 511). I got the new board today, plugged in the CPU and power (RAM that fit in the old MB would not fit in the new MB, but I should at least get a BIOS screen and some beeps, right?), and got absolutely nothing. No video, no beeps (yes the PC speaker is plugged in), and now even the CPU fan is failing to spin in this new board when it did spin plugged in the old MB. I've swapped the PSUs in and out, and tested them both again with my PSU tester and they both come back as working fine. I don't see anything I am missing, and I've built my own computers (8 in all) for the last 12 years without this sort of complete failure of the system to boot up. Any ideas?

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#2 MrBruce1959

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 06:05 PM

Did your motherboard come with a motherboard users manual?

If have that manual, please check the manual for the two pins that are supposed to go to the computer case power on button, make sure your switch is connected to those two pins.

If you have the switch on the correct two pins, you can check if your switch is bad, by using an metal object such as a screw driver, to short those two pins together, you only have to do this for a few seconds.

There is no need to keep the metal object longer than a few seconds, if your motherboard and system powers up, you found the problem, you either didn't have the switch connected to the right pins, or your switch on the computer front is bad.

Before I offer too much information needlessly, I will wait for your reply after you recheck what I suggested above.

A system can still power up the cooling fans regardless if memory (RAM) is installed or not, the lack of RAM, will only allow the system to crash or freeze up if the demand is above the ROM that is built into the BIOS chip.

Bruce.
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#3 William Dorr

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 08:48 PM

Thanks for the reply Bruce, but it's not the power switch, that works fine and is hooked up correctly. I think maybe I wasn't being accurate when I said I got "absolutely nothing" from the system. The PSU starts up, the power LED on the front of the case comes on, but there's no video output or BIOS beeps at all, and the CPU fan doesn't spin up. Aside from the CPU fan not spinning now, this is exactly what I was experiencing with the old motherboard as well.

Bill

#4 MrBruce1959

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 07:51 AM

I am providing you with a link to the ASRock support web site.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=ConRoe1333-eSATA2

Here is a link to the user manual for your motherboard just in case you did not get it along with your motherboard from the seller on eBay.

ftp://174.142.97.10/manual/ConRoe1333-eSATA2.pdf

At this link above, please check page 10 for a map of the motherboard, there are numbers on each motherboard connection and a list of what they are.

Please pay special attention to the following:

#2 ATX 12V Connector (ATX12V1) and #35 ATX Power Connector (ATXPWR1)

Make sure both of these ports have connection from the PSU.

Make sure that #10 Clear CMOS Jumper (CLRCMOS1) is NOT in the CLRCMOS1 jumper, this could have been installed by the previous owner, specially if this motherboard has already been used.

Make sure you do not have the motherboard shorted out to the computer case somewhere, this can happen if stand-offs are not used or not used properly.

You may have to remove the motherboard from the case entirely to assure there is no shorts to the case taking place on the top of the board or the bottom side.

Make sure there are no bent pins or missing on the CPU, this can happen and can be over looked as a possibility.

Please let me know if you continue having a problem with this motherboard.

Bruce.
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#5 William Dorr

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 02:34 AM

I already downloaded the PDF since the day I purchased the board off eBay, and have been over it and over it the last couple of days trying to find anything I might have missed. I have both power connectors plugged in. I do not have plugged in the SLI/XFire power connector since I am using only 1 video card, a rather generic ATI Radeon X300, which requires no special power inputs, and yes I have it plugged into the correct PCI Express slot for a standalone video card. CMOS jumper is clear, because I have placed and removed it myself numerous times in trying to solve this problem. I have not yet checked for a short in the case, although I am thinking that may be the hidden culprit somewhere considering that this new board is acting just as the old board suddenly did. Given that suspicion though, wouldn't you agree it would be strange for the case to just somehow one day short out the board? Given where the computer was located for the past 5 years almost, in perfect working operation, no indication of anything having spilled on it, and no obvious physical damage to the case, I really do have some trouble believing that the case just broke one day and prevented the system from booting. I'll take a look at that next.

I was able to borrow a StarTech.com PCI POST diagnostics card (http://us.startech.com/media/products/PCIPOST/Manuals/PCIPOST.pdf), and here's my results from that. Powering on the system results in the D1+ light going on (the 'reset' light) but the D2+ light (the 'system clock' light) did not. The PDF manual linked above states: "If the top D1+ LED does not light, there is a problem with the reset. If the D2+ LED does not light, there is a problem with the system clock." Also the 2-digit error code did not appear at all on the card's readout. What this does tell us in any event, is that power is getting to the PCI slots at least.

#6 mb9023

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 02:42 AM

Are you sure your display and cable are working? Silly question I know, but we all overlook things sometimes.
An error with the system clock probably just means it isn't set, or there is a bad CMOS battery. Have you tried changing that out?
Personally I would feel better if you tried it with some RAM. I would also unplug all pins from the mobo and make absolutely sure they're all correct.

#7 3therea1

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:40 PM

I had a problem similar to this, and an ASRock tech sent me this email, which helped me discover I had a short on the underside of the motherboard caused by a couple standoffs I didnt need, and its a good way to test a motherboard and find out if the problem lies elsewhere, so here it is:



Hi,



Try to find out if the mainboard will give you any beep code. Try to test the mainboard outside of the computer case. Remove all the devices that connect it on the mainboard. Only device need to connect on the mainboard is the Processor and Processor cooling fan, and make sure all the power connector are fully plug in 12V rail connector (4pin / 8pin), and 24(20)pin ATX power connector. If you do hear the beep code like 1 long beep and follow by 3 short beep. Please insert 1 single memory module, and go ahead insert the video card to the PCI-E slot. Below is the troubleshooting guide, or check the following link for further help.





http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261145-31-perform-steps-posting-boot-video-problems



http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/other/144



http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-your-own-pc,2601.html



1 Short Beep

One beep is good! Everything is ok, that is if you see things on the screen. If you don't see anything, check your monitor and video card first. Is everything connected? If they seem fine, your motherboard has some bad chips on it. First reset the SIMM's and reboot. If it does the same thing, one of the memory chips on the motherboard are bad, and you most likely need to get another motherboard since these chips are soldered on.

1 Long, 3 Short Beeps

You've probably just added memory to the motherboard since this is a conventional or extended memory failure. Generally this is caused by a memory chip that is not seated properly. Reseat the memory chips.

1 Long, 8 Short Beeps

Display / retrace test failed. Reseat the video card.



Dear ASRock Costumer,



Please follow the next steps in order to troubleshoot your main board.

TO CLEAR BIOS

First: disconnect the two power supplies sources from the main board. (24 Pins /20Pins and 8Pins/4Pins) cables.

Pull the Battery out from its battery Socket.

Second short the Jumper CLRMOS located closed to the Battery and set for from position 1~2 to 2~3 to clear the Cmos for about 10 seconds.

Finally reverse all steps above.

Turn your PC on and when screen Display appear Press the key F2 to Access to CMOS setup and then press the key F9 to load Optimal Defaults.

Finally press the key F10 to save and exit.



After your clear CMOS and still does not respond do the next steps:



TO TROUBLESHOOT MAINBOARD

In order to troubleshoot your mainboard disconnected all cables and work only with the cables recommended below.

Removed your mainboard from your Computer case (if your mainboard is installed in the case)

Make sure the mainboard is lay down in a clean flat surface and use the protection the comes with your mainboard to avoid any electrical short underside the circuit board.

Please connect only the cables requested below (do not connect IDEs, Floppy ect.)

The only parts for your Mainboard it needs to be install is the CPU & CPU's fan

Connect the 2-power connector (24(20) pins and 8(4) pins) from Power Supply

Connect the Speaker from your computer case (Diagnostic beep code by speaker). No sound speakers

Connect the Power Switch from your Computer case into Panel 1 Pushbutton.

Take your RAM out of your Mainboard as well as video card.

Then turn your mainboard on and you should heard 3 beeps (if you heard them please turn it off)

Install your RAM and turn your mainboard on you should heard 8 beeps (if you heard them turn it off)

Install your video card and turn your mainboard on and you should heard 1 beep (you should have screen display in your monitor)

If all steps above passed please put your mainboard inside the case.

Every single time you added a cable from IDE or CD room please turn your PC off and try, if for some reason fail disconnect the last device you install and go one step back to trouble shoot by steps.

IDE & OPTICAL CONNECTED

For best compatibility and stability, please make sure your stand alone hard drive on primary IDE has jumper setting to master, and your stand alone optical device on secondary IDE has jumper setting to master, too. Also if you only have one hard drive without any other optical device, please connect the hard drive to primary IDE with its jumper setting to master. Furthermore, for optimizing the transfer rate for the hard drive, we recommend you to connect your hard drive(s) to the primary IDE channel and optical device(s) to the secondary IDE channel .

After you finished loading your OS to HDD you can connect all IDEs Devices


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#8 William Dorr

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 01:17 AM

Are you sure your display and cable are working? Silly question I know, but we all overlook things sometimes.
An error with the system clock probably just means it isn't set, or there is a bad CMOS battery. Have you tried changing that out?
Personally I would feel better if you tried it with some RAM. I would also unplug all pins from the mobo and make absolutely sure they're all correct.


I had a problem similar to this, and an ASRock tech sent me this email, which helped me discover I had a short on the underside of the motherboard caused by a couple standoffs I didnt need, and its a good way to test a motherboard and find out if the problem lies elsewhere, so here it is:


If I had some RAM for this new board, I would certainly give it a try, but I'd like to find out if the board works in the first place before spending money on RAM.

I've been running these tests with the board completely unattached to anything but the minimum of power connections, CPU, CPU fan, and power switch. The monitor tests fine with everything else I throw at it. I would try running the board outside of the case if the entire concept of touching a metal object against a live computer system plugged into the wall wasn't out of my comfort area of troubleshooting this thing. Next time I tear apart an old system, I'll remember to pluck out the case's power switch to use in these cases.

Also, I've attached a picture of the inside of the case. The motherboard has been screwed directly into those raised metal bumps, just as the old motherboard was. I've managed to scrounge up some spare standoffs, but if i used them the board would just be raised up another quarter of an inch, causing all kinds of issues with securing expansion cards in place and the IO shield not fitting on the back. Since I am planning on building a new system for my dad in the next month or so, I think the next thing I'll try is buying the case for that, and using it as a new test bed for this problem.

EDIT: Or I can just buy a $5 ATX power switch off Amazon. I guess we'll know if it works in a few days.

Attached Files


Edited by William Dorr, 21 February 2011 - 01:33 AM.


#9 MrBruce1959

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 09:12 AM

I looked at your image and I see some rather large permanent stand-offs built into the computer case.
Most towers have screw holes in the case where a stand off can be screwed in where needed, other-wise there would be no contact in that area between the motherboard and computer case.

You computer case is designed differently, it does not have that option because the stand-offs are permanently molded into the case structure.

By design, motherboards are of different sizes and shapes, they do for the most part try to keep the mounting holes in the same area to make the board and case universal to some degree, how-ever a slight deviation in the alignment can cause the stand-off to make contact with a circuit trace located on the motherboard that is close enough to the chassis ground trace on the motherboard to short out that circuit to the computer case stand-off. The circuit becomes grounded to chassis ground and ceases to function.

3therea1 posted some pretty good information above, I realize you are reluctant to remove the motherboard from the case, but sometimes this is the only way to know if your motherboard was shorted to the case through one of those bumps.

It would involve placing the motherboard on a clean table, connecting the PSU 4/8 pin 12 volt power and 20/24 pin ATX power harness to it, the mouse, the keyboard, the video card and monitor.

The CPU and cooling fan should be installed in the motherboard.

You do not need to hook up the front panel connectors at this point, those are mostly hard drive LEDS and power LEDs and the power up and reset switches.

In place of the power up switch, you can simply jumper the two pins on the motherboard for the ATX power switch for 2 seconds, DO NOT SHORT THESE TWO PINS ANY LONGER THAN TWO SECONDS!!! That is all that is needed to power up the computer, this circuit is only needed to send a BRIEF signal to the ATX power controller board to power up the system, there is no need to keep those pins shorted permanently.

The system should still power up regardless of if it has any hard drive or optical drives (CD or DVD or Blue-Ray) connected to the motherboard.

If your system for some reason won't function at all without a stick of RAM in it, you may have to purchase a stick of memory, to test this.

I have powered up motherboards before, with no RAM installed in any of the slots, the BIOS ROM still booted to the BIOS screen, however your motherboard may be a bit more fussy about booting to the BIOS screen with lack of installed RAM in the motherboard.

When you go to power up the motherboard outside of the computer case, make sure nothing is touching another metal object before powering up the unit.

Make sure you discharge your body of static electricity to a grounded metal object before touching anything inside the computer case.

You are more lethal to the motherboard then it is to you, however, the PSU (power supply) is more lethal to you, the safety rule here is DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ENTER THE POWER SUPPLY UNIT!

The multi colored wires and plugs coming from it to power up the computer and motherboard only carries a maxinum of 13 VOLTS DC, about the same as an automobile battery, so this is NOT as lethal as most people might believe it to be.
How-ever the circuits that are hidden inside the power supply box are a whole different story, there is actively 115 to 125 VOLTS AC and in some cases 1000 Volts AC, those ranges can cause you some serious injury.

The ranges I used above are for the average computer used in the U.S.A. some countries use 240 VOLTS AC as a standard.

Bruce.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 21 February 2011 - 09:29 AM.

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#10 William Dorr

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 06:31 PM

Bruce,

The board is already removed from the case and ready to go. I'm just waiting now on the power switch from Amazon which has a delivery estimate of this Friday at the soonest. If I still get nothing, then I guess I'll have to invest $16 in cheap RAM at Newegg for testing purposes.

#11 MrBruce1959

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 07:12 PM

Please keep me informed and updated, I may not see your next reply, so if I do not respond with in a certain amount of time, please feel free to PM me that you have supplied an update to this thread.

Best of luck to you and I hope all goes well.

Bruce.
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