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#1 vigge_sWe

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 03:16 PM

I have one of these power extension thingies with an on/off button that I put too off anytime when I do not use the computer. When I turn it on when I want to use the computer, when I power on my computer, it would power on for 1 second, shutdown and 2 seconds later power on normally. However, if I just keep the button on the on state after I shutdown my computer, next time it would power on normally.

Any ideas?

Could it be that the PSU is not enough/bad? It's a new computer only a week old or so.

Also, some voltage stuff form SpeedFan if needed:
Posted Image

And this is the build:
Intel Core i7 950 3,0GHz Socket 1366 Box
Samsung SpinPoint F3 HD103SJ 32MB 1TB
Corsair Dominator GT DDR3 PC16000/2000MHz CL8 Fan 3x2GB
Samsung SH-S223C
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 460 OC Mini HDMI Dual-DVI 1GB
Cooler Master HAF 922 Mini
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R
Corsair CMPSU-750TX 750W
OCZ Vertex 2 E Series SATA II 2.5″ SSD 60GB
Noctua NH-U9B SE2

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#2 MrBruce1959

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 04:44 PM

First thing that comes to my mind is the CMOS battery on the motherboard is in need of replacement.

This battery keeps the settings such as time and date current when there is no power supplied to the motherboard. This is the case if the AC power is discontinued to the PSU.

The PSU, although off, still supplies current to the motherboard, this current keeps the CMOS circuit alive and does not depend on the CMOS battery at this point.

If a CMOS battery is weak or dead and the AC power is disconnected from the PSU, the CMOS battery takes over keeping the BIOS alive, it will cause issues with the REAL TIME clock losing time and settings not functioning correctly.

Try replacing the CMOS battery first and see if your issue goes away.

Bruce.
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#3 vigge_sWe

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 03:34 PM

First thing that comes to my mind is the CMOS battery on the motherboard is in need of replacement.

This battery keeps the settings such as time and date current when there is no power supplied to the motherboard. This is the case if the AC power is discontinued to the PSU.

The PSU, although off, still supplies current to the motherboard, this current keeps the CMOS circuit alive and does not depend on the CMOS battery at this point.

If a CMOS battery is weak or dead and the AC power is disconnected from the PSU, the CMOS battery takes over keeping the BIOS alive, it will cause issues with the REAL TIME clock losing time and settings not functioning correctly.

Try replacing the CMOS battery first and see if your issue goes away.

Bruce.


But I bought this mobo new just 2 weeks ago, and I have no issues with the time settings in windows either?

#4 vigge_sWe

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 11:06 AM

Uh, I still need help with this. Anyone?

#5 MrBruce1959

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 09:03 PM

I am guessing here as to what your power thingy thing is.

Is it a power strip with multiple power sockets with one main switch that powers off all of the plugs in the strip at the same time?

Now from the sounds of things, it seems like what you are describing is a case of when you leave the switch turned on the power strip at all times and shut the computer down normally and start it normally, you have NO problems.

However, when you also power off the power strip through the power strip switch, your computer starts up, but acts funny and briefly shuts down, only to start up shortly later, normally.

Does this sound pretty close to what you are experiencing?

For the sake of my being correct with my general analysis above, I want to briefly explain to you that power supplies have what is called electrolytic capacitors built into the circuitry.

Those are like little batteries that can store energy, they discharge occasionally to inject this energy into the circuit to remove what is called an AC sine-wave ripple, changing the phase into pure DC current.


An AC sine-wave is similar to the letter S laying on its side, with a line running through it.

like this image below.

Attached File  images.jpg   5KB   1 downloads


That image above is a PURE AC power sine wave, its down swing is negative phase and its up swing is positive phase.

DC power (such as batteries) does not have a sine wave, the wave is filtered out by the use of capacitors, which store either positive or negative pulses and injects those into the circuit when needed, this causes the flow above the line to be all positive and the flow below the line to be all negative in one straight line across, the S effect in the image above is removed.

In order to do this, capacitors are designed to store a current, even long after the computer is turned off for many days or sometimes years, just like how a rechargeable battery stores power for quite some time.

When power is cut off to the power supply via the power strip, those capacitors are drained down to zero by the continued demand of the computers circuitry, so they are no longer storing any current, such as a dead battery.

This is why you are having issues with the initial start up, however, once the power has been restored to the power supply via the power strip being turned on, those capacitors are once again recharged and the computer functions normally again.

What this tells me is that your power supply has a faulty circuit, which one exactly, I can not tell you, but there is something in there that fails to function correctly, if those capacitors are allowed to discharge fully.

Servicing a power supply is NOT user friendly and is very dangerous to say the least!!!

I recommend your doing one of two things:

The cheaper one is purchasing another power supply.

The more expensive one is having this one serviced at a repair shop, labor costs will bring up the cost of repair to the price of a brand new power supply, so in my opinion, it is better to just replace the power supply.

Replacing it will not subject you to any dangers like I listed above, because the power outside of the power supply is SAFE DC current, the power inside of a power supply is very DANGEROUS AC current that is anywhere above 120--1000 Volts! 1000 Volts can hurt you very badly and power supplies are known to have voltage that high even years after the thing has been unplugged.

So if you wish, it is safe if you purchase another power supply and install it yourself.

Hope this helps and sorry about the science lesson I published above, I just like stating facts and non-fiction science along with my explanations. :thumbup2:

Bruce.
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#6 Flabum

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 10:40 PM

I agree with the above post, I also noticed the 12 volt rail shows 10.9 volts..... perhaps the power supply has been damaged or there's a heavy load/drag on it.

#7 vigge_sWe

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 08:57 AM

Thank you for the information, it was really interesting to read and I learned a lot from it :P.

Yes, the power strip is one of those with a button you turn off every plug with, (like this http://brain.pan.e-merchant.com/1/2/00036721/l_00036721.jpg). You are correct with that if I never turn the plugs off by pressing the red button, this effect does not happen. I tested replacing the thing and tested other plugs in my home and all show same effect

I still have 5 years warranty left on the PSU, so if you say it's a defect with the PSU, I could have it replaced for free.

I have a 620W PSU in my previous computer, should I test putting that one in first to confirm that the PSU is defect?

Edited by vigge_sWe, 04 April 2011 - 08:58 AM.


#8 MrBruce1959

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:30 AM

You should while it is still under an no obligation warranty, but you can also try the 620W PSU just to be sure the problem is not with another piece of hardware in the computer tower.

If you experience the same issue with the 620W PSU, it would mean there is a problem with either the motherboard or a piece of hardware attached to the power supply, such as a CD/DVD drive.


Bruce.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 07 April 2011 - 04:31 AM.

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#9 vigge_sWe

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 03:14 AM

I spent all morning to change to the 620W PSU, and to my dismay the problem persist.

If it's hardware that is the reason, it isn't the CD/DVD drive, as it isn't plugged into power (there were not enough cables for it). That leaves the HDD, the SSD, the GPU and the motherboard that is plugged into the PSU(s).

#10 MrBruce1959

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 12:45 PM

Sad to hear that after all the hard work you put into changing the PSU, you ended up with the same results.

Since you have also ruled out the optical drive, we are left with a motherboard issue.

I find it interesting that as long as the computer has some connection to the AC mains of the house, the motherboard fires up as it is expected to do.

By turning off the power strip to which the computer is connected to for AC power, your system fails to fire up properly.

When a system is powered down by the Windows OS command to shut down the system, it powers down via a controller circuit built into the motherboard.

Although the system is in a powered down state, the motherboard BIOS system is still active and powered up.
The motherboard still has full power being supplied to it.
This feature is built into the motherboard, so the system can be booted up by remote resources such as the keyboard, modem or LAN.

I am curious if there is any cards still installed on the motherboard such as the Modem.
I am not sure how you access the Internet, but some systems come with a modem and an Ethernet port.
If the Ethernet port is used, there is no reason to have a modem still occupying one of the PCI slots.
This expansion card can be removed because it is only useful for dial-up connections to an ISP.

Something with-in your system is not happy when the system is completely cut off from the AC power source.

A weak motherboard CMOS battery can cause issues, specially if the system is completely removed from the AC power source.

If your battery has some age on it, it may be the cause, even if it is in fact holding the correct time and date.

If your battery was recently replaced and the battery is full and not a victim of long shelf life discharge, we would have to look for another issue with the motherboard.

The only components I know that are affected by the absence of power are capacitors, specially those electrolytic types, because they hold a charge, they can also be discharged by resources that drain them of this charge.

A shorted component on the motherboard can cause this to happen, often ceramic disk capacitors can become shorted, you will not see this by physically inspecting the capacitor, it is detected by sampling the condition of the circuit using the proper test equipment and a service manual.

That test procedure is beyond the scope of what I can provide you with here in this forum board.

For the most part, you may be able to continue using your system normally, just do not power off the PSU using the main power switch on the power strip.

I also am concerned if your wall socket is properly wired, there are testers that can be found in most hardware stores, that you can test your wall sockets wiring with. They have little LEDS that light up and tell you if your wall socket has a ground fault or if it is reversed polarity. (wired incorrectly)

There is Neutral which is the white wire in house wiring and Hot which is the black wire. If those are reversed and your power strip has a wide blade and a narrow blade plug holes, your plug can only go in one way.
Those plugs can also have a third prong called Earth ground.

House wiring is different than electronics wiring where in electronics and automobiles BLACK is Negative. In electrical house wiring, BLACK is HOT, not to be confused with temperature, but, it can some-what be considered the + side of the phase, because any connection between it and Earth ground can create a working circuit.

I hope I have not lost you yet with my electronics jargon, but if your wires are reversed for any reason because of incorrect wiring, your system can act up because of it.

Bruce.
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#11 vigge_sWe

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 12:55 PM

There is no separate Modem/ethernet card, only the ethernet built into the motherboard.

We live in an old house so we haven't got grounded outlets. There is one in the kitchen lamp though, but I'm not sure if it's just manufactured that way and never grounded. I tried using that outlet but still with the same issue.

I am gonna find some time someday to get my computer to a friends house to test if it does the same there, if it now would be a issue with the outlets here not being grounded/wired correctly. Last step I could think is to hand it in to the local computer store, but I would rather try everything I can before doing that, as they charge for it.

I've also been suggested by a guy in the IRC to disassemble the computer, and assemble all parts outside of the case and see if it still is behaving like this. Is this a safe procedure and worth it?

#12 MrBruce1959

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 03:04 PM

I've also been suggested by a guy in the IRC to disassemble the computer, and assemble all parts outside of the case and see if it still is behaving like this. Is this a safe procedure and worth it?

Yes it is and it is a recommendation of mine as well.

The reason that person suggested it, is because sometimes the motherboard can shift slightly and can become shorted to the chassis ground in the general location of where the screws that hold the motherboard in place are located.

The spacers are made of metallic materials, they raise the motherboard up off of the chassis usually 1/4 inch.
Because they are made of brass, they can conduct electricity.
Often those mounting holes can be placed in areas where a great number of circuit traces exist, if the motherboard which is usually mounted vertical, shifts downward it can short out a circuit trace that was not meant to be shorted to chassis ground.

Removing the motherboard from the case prevents this from happening and if things function normally again you have just found the problem.

(Sorry I was on the phone with a friend for like an hour, so I am now back to finishing this reply)

This process of removing the motherboard from the case also allows you to visually inspect the motherboard for visual signs of motherboard circuit damage or defective parts.

You pretty much assemble the entire system minus the computer case, but you start off with just the basic hardware such as the motherboard and the PSU. (Note if you have on-board video you can hook up the monitor at this point)

Boot the system up and listen for the results from the system speaker, power down and add another piece of equipment to the system such as the video card, next the keyboard, the mouse and eventually the hard drive.

Keep adding another piece of hardware until either the system acts up again, or hey who knows, the problem may no longer exist.

The procedure is actually a process of elimination done backwards, instead of removing hardware, your adding it one piece at a time and observing the results.

Bruce.
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#13 vigge_sWe

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 01:45 AM

So, I disassembled everything now.

Motherboard + heatsink fans = boots ok
Motherboard + heatsink fans + RAM = issue.

I was suspecting issue with the RAM, becuase from time to time when I would launch SpeedFan, the computer would lock-up and need a reset. When booted again, only 2GB RAM was installed according to windows, and the RAM had to be reseated.

And that concludes it that I would never buy a bleepty brand as corsair again (My last RAM that was broken was also Corsair).

I'll try send the RAM in on warranty and hope the new ones works.

EDIT:
I am changing my mind to that there is an issue with the RAM slots. I tried having only 1 stick #1 in DDR3_1 and DDR3_3 (the only slots that supports 1-module install according to the manual), same issue. Stick #2 in those slots, same issue. Stick #3 in those slots, still same issue

EDIT2:
I ran 2 passes Memtest86+ and no errors there.

Edited by vigge_sWe, 14 April 2011 - 07:28 AM.





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