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Merry Seasonal Celebration #12...


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#1 mccdaddy

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 10:48 PM

A Christmas Alternative

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#2 PrittStick

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 10:18 PM

I disagree. If you want to celebrate Christmas, celebrate it, if you don't, then don't. Are you telling me that Christianity will approve of that? No they wont, and neither will anywhere else. 35% of people will probably want to get rid of Christmas, well until it's 100%, Christmas isn't going anywhere.

Now, I'm not a sikh, so I don't celebrate that festival where they celebrate light or something like that, (not sure of the name). The same should go for Christmas. However, it just happens that Christianity is still the most full out of all of the religions.

My main point here is that England, (not America), is still a Protestant country and until the Protestants have lost a full on war against any other religion, that's the way it'll stay. The Queen of England is the HEAD of the Church of England, (Protestant Christianty), and until, maybe, there is no Royal Family, then there is no chance in the world of Christmas changing it's name or it's purpose.

It may not be the same for America, I'm not sure, but I feel that if someone doesn't want to celebrate Christmas but wants to 'join in' the festive holiday fun, then they should create another holiday on the 25th of Decemeber, not rename the current holiday. Let's see how far they get with it.

Edited by PrittStick, 26 December 2005 - 10:19 PM.


#3 Scarlett

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 10:57 PM

:thumbsup: PrittStick

Totally against it!

http://patheticperipatetic.blogspot.com/20...bration-12.html
These folks prefer to refer to Christmas as "Xmas" or the "Winter Holiday". They feel that those who don't accept Jesus are offended by having to associate Him with the holiday that commemorates His birth

.

Those that do not accept Jesus and are offended by the association of Jesus and Christmas, should just not celebrate it. I do not whine or complain about other religious Holidays. Nor am I offended. I let it be. To each his own. All religious Holidays are a sacred and spirititual experience to those who celebrate them.
They should never be taken away!



Oh and perhaps they should go in to work on Christmas Day, and refuse to accept any offering of a Christmas bonus.

And as far as the retail companies go, that do not allow their employee's to wish a Merry Christmas to customers. How about this, shut down during the entire Christmas season. They could then make an even stronger statement.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, that just would not do would, would it?
For goodness sake they would lose millions of dollars of revenue, that is generated by only the biggest shopping season of the year!

Hypocrites all!!!!

Edited by Scarlett, 26 December 2005 - 11:00 PM.

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#4 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 01:35 AM

It may not be the same for America, I'm not sure, but I feel that if someone doesn't want to celebrate Christmas but wants to 'join in' the festive holiday fun, then they should create another holiday on the 25th of Decemeber, not rename the current holiday. Let's see how far they get with it.

Saturnalia. Google it.

Christian leaders, in 336 AD, set the "Christmas" date at December 25th in an attempt to ecclipse the Roman pagan holiday Saturnalia (celebration of the god of agriculture, i think).

In Scandinavia, the Norse celebrated Yule from December 21, the winter solstice, through January... The end of December was a perfect time for celebration in most areas of Europe. At that time of year, most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter.

In Germany, people honored the pagan god Oden during the mid-winter holiday.

Also around the time of the winter solstice, Romans observed Juvenalia, a feast honoring the children of Rome. In addition, members of the upper classes often celebrated the birthday of Mithra, the god of the unconquerable sun, on December 25.

These celebrations occured maybe centuries before jesus was supposedly born.

It would seem that Christianity was the one to try and "rename" the holidays in an attempt to create their own celebration and attention....

Edited by Heretic Monkey, 27 December 2005 - 01:37 AM.


#5 rigel

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 09:23 AM

Christmas...

For me and my family, Christmas is defined as:

And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Luke 2:10-11

That will never change for us.

HM, you are correct. Christmas was placed on December 25 to replace Saturnalia.

The bottom line is that the date doesn't matter. Men have tried to make Christ fit into their definitions for as long as His name existed. A baby was born - He changed the world - I bow before Him. A part of me wishes we could move Christmas to January 6 and keep it for just that - the celebration of the birth of Christ. No gift swaps - no external meanings.

So... let there be the season of Visa! A season dedicated to the giving of fruitcakes and gift cards.

Rigel

"In a world where you can be anything, be yourself." ~ unknown

"Fall in love with someone who deserves your heart. Not someone who plays with it. Will Smith


#6 acklan

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 10:20 AM

Intolurance from those who scream for tolurance.
I am Christian, Catholic to be precise. I wish the gov would ban all holidays. Let everyone observe what they want when they want.
Holidays are just a way for the gov to force buisness to increase the pay 12 to 14 times a year for people who are probably are not worth thier base pay, the other 342 to 343 days of the year.
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#7 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 12:06 PM

Intolurance from those who scream for tolurance.
I am Christian, Catholic to be precise. I wish the gov would ban all holidays. Let everyone observe what they want when they want.
Holidays are just a way for the gov to force buisness to increase the pay 12 to 14 times a year for people who are probably are not worth thier base pay, the other 342 to 343 days of the year.

I don't know that BANNING all the holidays is a good idea (would that mean that you couldn't celebrate them?), but placing restrictions on the PUBLIC celebration would probably be good. If they refrained from making "government holidays" according to religious obvservances, a lot of problems may be avoided. A quote from a friend in another site's forums:

The country as it is now does not exist as the people of our fore-fathers, but as the people that inhabit the country today

This sort of expresses my views of all the arguments beginning with "this country was founded on...".

Of course, no matter how much neutralizing or generalizing the government is able to accomplish on the religious front, there's always going to be someone or some group of people that has a problem with the way things are going.

Edited by Heretic Monkey, 27 December 2005 - 12:09 PM.


#8 acklan

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 12:33 PM

I don't know that BANNING all the holidays is a good idea (would that mean that you couldn't celebrate them?), but placing restrictions on the PUBLIC celebration would probably be good. If they refrained from making "government holidays" according to religious obvservances, a lot of problems may be avoided. A quote from a friend in another site's forums:

The country as it is now does not exist as the people of our fore-fathers, but as the people that inhabit the country today


No it would not mean you could not celebrate them. It would mean the gov would not indorce any holiday. If you want to apply for a PUBLIC permit to have a parade or use a PUBLIC gym I would have no problem as long as both non-religious and religious groups have equal access.
And why should non-religious groups have special treatment over religious groups.
Correct, the country exist for people of today. Over 75% of American have a belief in God. So pulling from the quote of your friend, should we blindly give over to the religious? I don't think so, but I do think the religios of this Country should have equal consideration. Right now they are being blocked at most every turn.
IMHO that is the reason for the resugence of the right and extreme right, and will be the reason the Supreme Court will shift past moderate left to moderate right. IMO neither side wants to give so neither side will win.

Edited by acklan, 27 December 2005 - 12:34 PM.

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#9 Scarlett

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 01:57 PM

A couple shining examples of what is going on in this country today.

When Did Christmas Become a Dirty Word?
WOAI-TV
Excerpt:
Most public schools here have "holiday" parties, rather than Christmas Parties. The two weeks off in December is not Christmas break, but "winter break". And if you've ever been to a public school "winter program", you probably noticed that references to Christmas are few and far between. However, mentions of other holidays, like Kwanza and Hanukah, are abundant.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10466336/from/RL.3/


BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
Ban on Christmas
leads to court fight
Education halls get decked with legal action for alleged discrimination against Christians

By Jon Dougherty
2002 WorldNetDaily.com

A public-interest law firm has filed suit in federal court alleging that a "Holiday Displays" policy for New York City public schools is discriminatory against the Christian religion.

In its suit, the Thomas More Law Center said the district's policy "unlawfully discriminates against Christians" because it "prohibits the display of [Christian] Nativity scenes" in public schools during Christmas, while it "expressly permits and encourages" the display of the Jewish Menorah and the Islamic Star and Crescent during certain religious holidays and observances
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=29942
.


The article goes on to further state:

Published accounts said the school district's written policy allows only "secular holiday symbols."



The Catholic League maintains that the Jewish Menorah and the Islamic Star and Crescent are religious symbols rather than secular displays, and therefore the school district should permit displays of the Christian Nativity scene, which depicts the birth of Jesus.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=29942



Fair? I do not think so. Separation of Church and State?
I ask this, since this is one of the arguments against the allowing of Christian symbols.


First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech

= Heretic Monkey
Christian leaders, in 336 AD, set the "Christmas" date at December 25th in an attempt to ecclipse the Roman pagan holiday Saturnalia (celebration of the god of agriculture, i think).


Jesus, the Lamb of God
2001 WorldNetDaily.com
Joseph Farah - Between The Lines
Tomorrow, millions of Christians around the world celebrate the birth of the One they believe to be the Savior of the world, the Prince of Peace, the Son of God Jesus of Nazareth.

Jesus is called many things in the Bible. One of His names is the Lamb of God. And while no one is quite sure exactly when Jesus was born, I believe that name may actually lend credence to the birth date of Dec. 25.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25819


Edited by Scarlett, 27 December 2005 - 02:04 PM.

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#10 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 02:15 PM

I recall that you've posted something similar about the restrictions placed on xianity while the other religious symbols are allowed. I've also expressed my dislike for this treatment in the other thread.

I think that all public places should place neutrality on all religious beliefs, catering to no one side over the other.

As to the increase in menorrah's and other religious symbols, i think it's partly due to the fact that there's a movement to help increase the knowledge of other cultures/religious celebrations. Everyone in the past has been so focused on christmas that a lot of people don't even know about the other holidays. If these holidays are presented in a purely educational manner (as in just providing background information regarding the source or something), i don't see the harm in helping to educate kids of other cultures. BUT, if they say something about hanukah (never spell that right) or kwanzaa, then they should be able to say something about christmas. None of these should be expressely CELEBRATED in schools, but information regarding these holidays shouldn't be restricted, and they should be given equal attention.

Of course, the previous paragraph assumes the fact that holidays ARE given attention in public schools. It'd probably just be easier to lessen the focus on them...

#11 Scarlett

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 02:52 PM

I feel that I have strayed off topic. I apoligize.

That being said, I give you all this:

Merry Christmas
Dec 22, 2005
by Matt Towery


The assault on Christmas may meet a similar fate, thanks to an entity known as the American people. A new national poll released by Gallup reveals that 69 percent of respondents said their favorite greeting during this season is "Merry Christmas."

That's almost 10 percent more than said the same thing last year.

Maybe those who insist on making an issue about greetings of goodwill have had the reverse influence that they hoped. Perhaps they have created a new determination among many Americans to keep alive the "traditional traditions" of the Christmas season
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/ma.../22/180068.html


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