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Visual basic or C++?!


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#1 CrimsonSpider

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 09:38 PM

Hiya,

I'm starting Visual basic in February as part of my degree.

As my computing degree is broad, i'd like to one day specialise in game programming/development.

Today, i had received a book on beginners C++.

Is it recommended to start learning C++ two months before Visual basic?

I'm pretty scared that i'll get confused, especially when it comes to syntax. Haha

I have no idea whether they're related or not! EEK!

Thanks,

CrimsonSpider
"Don’t worry if it doesn’t work right. If everything did, you’d be out of a job."
(Mosher’s Law of Software Engineering)

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#2 jbylake

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 10:46 PM

Wow, that's wild. Not sure why that was recommened. I started C++ years ago, C before that. I was talking to a software engineer, who works for a company that is developing software for FEMA (I'm assuming you're a U.S. poster and know what FEMA is). Engineer that I was talking with is much much younger than I. He maed a remark, as we were talking about languages and platforms that caught my attention. I brought up C++ for some reason or another, and he said, C++ is so big now that I don't think anyone knows it through and through, anymore. It was said in jest, but there's probably a lot of truth to it. Being proficient, really proficient in C++ is a long journey. I would recommend Visual Basic as a first language, as it's used in all kinds of industry (Even some PLC programming). I would think trying to learn C++ at the same time would be very tough, but good luck to you. It can be done.

J.

#3 CrimsonSpider

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 10:30 PM

Wow, that's wild. Not sure why that was recommened. I started C++ years ago, C before that. I was talking to a software engineer, who works for a company that is developing software for FEMA (I'm assuming you're a U.S. poster and know what FEMA is). Engineer that I was talking with is much much younger than I. He maed a remark, as we were talking about languages and platforms that caught my attention. I brought up C++ for some reason or another, and he said, C++ is so big now that I don't think anyone knows it through and through, anymore. It was said in jest, but there's probably a lot of truth to it. Being proficient, really proficient in C++ is a long journey. I would recommend Visual Basic as a first language, as it's used in all kinds of industry (Even some PLC programming). I would think trying to learn C++ at the same time would be very tough, but good luck to you. It can be done.

J.



Heya,

Thanks for the post. I don't think i'll be rushing off to learn it, yet.

I'll give Visual basic a go first!

Oh, and i'm not a US poster hehe.

UK poster :P

CrimsonSpider
"Don’t worry if it doesn’t work right. If everything did, you’d be out of a job."
(Mosher’s Law of Software Engineering)

#4 jbylake

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 07:55 PM


Wow, that's wild. Not sure why that was recommened. I started C++ years ago, C before that. I was talking to a software engineer, who works for a company that is developing software for FEMA (I'm assuming you're a U.S. poster and know what FEMA is). Engineer that I was talking with is much much younger than I. He maed a remark, as we were talking about languages and platforms that caught my attention. I brought up C++ for some reason or another, and he said, C++ is so big now that I don't think anyone knows it through and through, anymore. It was said in jest, but there's probably a lot of truth to it. Being proficient, really proficient in C++ is a long journey. I would recommend Visual Basic as a first language, as it's used in all kinds of industry (Even some PLC programming). I would think trying to learn C++ at the same time would be very tough, but good luck to you. It can be done.

J.



Heya,

Thanks for the post. I don't think i'll be rushing off to learn it, yet.

I'll give Visual basic a go first!

Oh, and i'm not a US poster hehe.

UK poster :P

CrimsonSpider



Good idea, in my opinion.

Good luck,
J.

#5 CrimsonSpider

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:22 PM



Wow, that's wild. Not sure why that was recommened. I started C++ years ago, C before that. I was talking to a software engineer, who works for a company that is developing software for FEMA (I'm assuming you're a U.S. poster and know what FEMA is). Engineer that I was talking with is much much younger than I. He maed a remark, as we were talking about languages and platforms that caught my attention. I brought up C++ for some reason or another, and he said, C++ is so big now that I don't think anyone knows it through and through, anymore. It was said in jest, but there's probably a lot of truth to it. Being proficient, really proficient in C++ is a long journey. I would recommend Visual Basic as a first language, as it's used in all kinds of industry (Even some PLC programming). I would think trying to learn C++ at the same time would be very tough, but good luck to you. It can be done.

J.



Heya,

Thanks for the post. I don't think i'll be rushing off to learn it, yet.

I'll give Visual basic a go first!

Oh, and i'm not a US poster hehe.

UK poster :P

CrimsonSpider



Good idea, in my opinion.

Good luck,
J.


Thanks for the advice! :D

CrimsonSpider
"Don’t worry if it doesn’t work right. If everything did, you’d be out of a job."
(Mosher’s Law of Software Engineering)

#6 groovicus

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:39 PM

This is going to be a huge shocker for you. The languages that you know are mostly irrelevant. Any company that hires you is going to figure that you have little to no experience at all in the production world. they figure that they are going to spend 24 months (give or take) to get you up to speed with their platform, as well as get you up to speed with whatever language that they may be using. In addition, learning their coding standards, documentation, version control, etc. For the first year, you are going to be working on bugs and feature requests. Those tasks will be designed to get you familiar with the platform. You will be able to Bing for any syntactical methods of a particular language in order to fix those bugs. For example, "How do I print a list of files in C++/Java/Haskell/Erlang".

Game programming is not a specialty, per se. There are aspects of game programming that are indeed specialties, but you are not going to learn them in school. I don't care if the University offers a "Game Programming" degree. All that companies are interested in, for an entry level position, is that the employee has an understanding of programming fundamentals, and can demonstrate that they know how to teach themselves. You get bonus points if you can demonstrate that you learned other things outside of whatever your curriculum is.

For a real world example, my college teaches Computer Science using Java, C, C++, and MySql. None of our corporate sponsors used any of that. What they were interested in was the fundamentals.

TL:DR; Language is irrelevant. Learn the fundamentals.

#7 CrimsonSpider

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:07 PM

This is going to be a huge shocker for you. The languages that you know are mostly irrelevant. Any company that hires you is going to figure that you have little to no experience at all in the production world. they figure that they are going to spend 24 months (give or take) to get you up to speed with their platform, as well as get you up to speed with whatever language that they may be using. In addition, learning their coding standards, documentation, version control, etc. For the first year, you are going to be working on bugs and feature requests. Those tasks will be designed to get you familiar with the platform. You will be able to Bing for any syntactical methods of a particular language in order to fix those bugs. For example, "How do I print a list of files in C++/Java/Haskell/Erlang".

Game programming is not a specialty, per se. There are aspects of game programming that are indeed specialties, but you are not going to learn them in school. I don't care if the University offers a "Game Programming" degree. All that companies are interested in, for an entry level position, is that the employee has an understanding of programming fundamentals, and can demonstrate that they know how to teach themselves. You get bonus points if you can demonstrate that you learned other things outside of whatever your curriculum is.

For a real world example, my college teaches Computer Science using Java, C, C++, and MySql. None of our corporate sponsors used any of that. What they were interested in was the fundamentals.

TL:DR; Language is irrelevant. Learn the fundamentals.


Wow, Thanks!

That's great advice right there. :)

CrimsonSpider
"Don’t worry if it doesn’t work right. If everything did, you’d be out of a job."
(Mosher’s Law of Software Engineering)

#8 DaviePCRepair

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 07:37 PM

Any developer that I've ever talked to is going to tell you that most all code syntax can be google'd (or whichever search engine you prefer). Learning logic and the basics of system analysis and design is what most people who are looking for programmers are looking for. Basically what your languages that you will be learning in school will be doing is giving you starting point of how the syntax will be fitting together so you will not be completely lost when out there looking at a class with 5000 lines of code.

#9 JosiahK

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 07:02 PM

I'm 16 and have been writing code as a hobby since I was about 12. Personally my programming is self taught and I prefer to learn on my own whenever possible. In your situation I'd certainly want to start learning on my own, build up a nice little block of experience and a nicer block of questions. Then I'd focus over the course on finding the answers to those questions. I'd repeat that as new questions arise, finding answers by myself, from the book, from my teacher or from a combination of all available resources.

That being as is I'd want to get myself a book on VB programming, download .net express and start working on VB. Having C code and questions (since it is impossible to reach proficiency in programming and in a language in as little as 2 months) in my head would just be plain annoying and interfere with my studies; it would also be easier to teach myself C once I had a decent grounding in programming in general. Logically if you aren't the sort who likes to teach yourself then it would be even more important that you have a teacher for those initial stages.
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#10 matthew180

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 02:08 AM

I concur with the consensus that the language does not matter much at this point. "Programming" is just syntax. "Learning" to design a program to solve a specific problem is a life-long journey, and the tools are generally irrelevant. Learn many languages, since there is no one perfect tool for every job. To me, the most important trait to have as a programmer is curiosity, a desire to know how things work, to take them apart and see how they tick. If you wait to be told "ok, now it is time to learn ...", then you might not be very happy in a programming profession. Without rehashing what others have already said, read this and take it to heart:

http://norvig.com/21-days.html

Make sure you read up on who the author is...

As for games, it does not matter what you learn "first" since there is much to learn. My niece loves RPG's and wants to make games for some AAA company (Blizzard, EA, etc.) So two years ago, for her last two years in High School, she went to the math and science center to buff up on all that stuff. She did not listen to me, she dropped out after a year, and is now trying the graphic arts route. Playing games is not the same as writing games. "Writing a game" is not like it used to be back in the day when a single programmer did it all. Even huge companies license a "game engine" and go from there, so unless you are John Carmack, or one of the 5 "core" programmers working on the UnReal Engine, a lot of what you might think game programming *is*, really is not.

But Carmack only got that good from necessity and a lot of time hacking on code. Back when Id wrote their first (the world's first) FPS, there was no "engine" to license, no hardware acceleration in PC's, no millions of triangles per second.

Anyway, all that to say that games are less about programming these days and more about production, not unlike a movie. You are going to have to learn a lot about a lot of stuff to break in and get a job with a AAA game company. However, you can also be an Indie and have more fun, be your own boss, and start writing games today.

Just my two cents.

#11 CrimsonSpider

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 06:34 PM

I concur with the consensus that the language does not matter much at this point. "Programming" is just syntax. "Learning" to design a program to solve a specific problem is a life-long journey, and the tools are generally irrelevant. Learn many languages, since there is no one perfect tool for every job. To me, the most important trait to have as a programmer is curiosity, a desire to know how things work, to take them apart and see how they tick. If you wait to be told "ok, now it is time to learn ...", then you might not be very happy in a programming profession. Without rehashing what others have already said, read this and take it to heart:

http://norvig.com/21-days.html

Make sure you read up on who the author is...

As for games, it does not matter what you learn "first" since there is much to learn. My niece loves RPG's and wants to make games for some AAA company (Blizzard, EA, etc.) So two years ago, for her last two years in High School, she went to the math and science center to buff up on all that stuff. She did not listen to me, she dropped out after a year, and is now trying the graphic arts route. Playing games is not the same as writing games. "Writing a game" is not like it used to be back in the day when a single programmer did it all. Even huge companies license a "game engine" and go from there, so unless you are John Carmack, or one of the 5 "core" programmers working on the UnReal Engine, a lot of what you might think game programming *is*, really is not.

But Carmack only got that good from necessity and a lot of time hacking on code. Back when Id wrote their first (the world's first) FPS, there was no "engine" to license, no hardware acceleration in PC's, no millions of triangles per second.

Anyway, all that to say that games are less about programming these days and more about production, not unlike a movie. You are going to have to learn a lot about a lot of stuff to break in and get a job with a AAA game company. However, you can also be an Indie and have more fun, be your own boss, and start writing games today.

Just my two cents.


Wow, man. That's bloody awesome.

The link you sent me is amazingly good. :inlove:

Thanks for the great advice!

CrimsonSpider
"Don’t worry if it doesn’t work right. If everything did, you’d be out of a job."
(Mosher’s Law of Software Engineering)

#12 jbylake

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 02:56 PM

This is going to be a huge shocker for you. The languages that you know are mostly irrelevant. Any company that hires you is going to figure that you have little to no experience at all in the production world. they figure that they are going to spend 24 months (give or take) to get you up to speed with their platform, as well as get you up to speed with whatever language that they may be using. In addition, learning their coding standards, documentation, version control, etc. For the first year, you are going to be working on bugs and feature requests. Those tasks will be designed to get you familiar with the platform. You will be able to Bing for any syntactical methods of a particular language in order to fix those bugs. For example, "How do I print a list of files in C++/Java/Haskell/Erlang".

Game programming is not a specialty, per se. There are aspects of game programming that are indeed specialties, but you are not going to learn them in school. I don't care if the University offers a "Game Programming" degree. All that companies are interested in, for an entry level position, is that the employee has an understanding of programming fundamentals, and can demonstrate that they know how to teach themselves. You get bonus points if you can demonstrate that you learned other things outside of whatever your curriculum is.

For a real world example, my college teaches Computer Science using Java, C, C++, and MySql. None of our corporate sponsors used any of that. What they were interested in was the fundamentals.

TL:DR; Language is irrelevant. Learn the fundamentals.


I would agree to this to a great extent. I'm retired now, but in the 70's I joined the Air Force and went to programming school. We had a short course in BASIC, to get the fundementals. Assembly, Fortran Cobol and later C. Granted those were dinosaur days of mainframes. But it did give us the fundementals you place so much emphasis on, so I'd say you are 100% correct in that respect.

Fast forward to today. It's a whole new world now. Paradigms have changed, and I couldn't count how many languages are used. Many embedded within other code. Then you have the net, and you can add php, java, ajax, c# etc..etc..for web programming. It's mind boggling to an old geezer like me.

However, my daughters fiancee is a software engineer for a large company that is currently working on a contract for FEMA. C++ was mandatory for that position, and several other projects that that company is working on. He has numerous talents in various languages, and like you stated, many companies will hire new graduates based on numerous programming skills that they may not use, but that the programmer has proven thier profiency in various languages, they do assume you can pick up on whatever platform they may be using, giving the hire's proven ability in other languages.

Still, I wouldn't dissuade a new student from learning low level (assembly) or higher level languages such as Vbasic and C++, except to say that they will not be experts in C++ (the language the OP alluded to) in a semsester or two.

Just a thought,

J.

#13 Mr.VisualBasic

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 08:23 PM

Wow, that's wild. Not sure why that was recommened. I started C++ years ago, C before that. I was talking to a software engineer, who works for a company that is developing software for FEMA (I'm assuming you're a U.S. poster and know what FEMA is). Engineer that I was talking with is much much younger than I. He maed a remark, as we were talking about languages and platforms that caught my attention. I brought up C++ for some reason or another, and he said, C++ is so big now that I don't think anyone knows it through and through, anymore. It was said in jest, but there's probably a lot of truth to it. Being proficient, really proficient in C++ is a long journey. I would recommend Visual Basic as a first language, as it's used in all kinds of industry (Even some PLC programming). I would think trying to learn C++ at the same time would be very tough, but good luck to you. It can be done.

J.


I don't think I completely agree with the idea that, "C++ is so big now that I don't think anyone knows it through and through, anymore". As a computer scientist, I know that most CS degree plans REQUIRE low-level programming in languages such as C and C++ (mostly for scientific purposes). Good luck finding a CS degree program that's pure VB.

Now, I'm not doubting that people don't know C++ the way they used to. Many applications anymore are developed in high-level languages, such as Java or C#, but if you really want to know how things work, I would recommend C, not C++. FYI, C++ and C are two totally different languages, although C++ is a lot like C (since it's inspired by C), there are significant differences (especially with the new C++ standards coming into effect).




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