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#1 wkid

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:39 AM

I know this web site is international in nature. I address my fellow United States citizens in this post.

If you are a registered voter, please take the time to vote on November 2. It is not only your right, but your responsibility to vote. When you cast your ballot, do so thoughtfully. Ask yourself, "does this ballot represent my beliefs?" Bear in mind that political affiliation may not indicate the legislative mindset of the candidate. If you are unsure of a candidate or an issue, please leave that section blank. No vote is preferable to a wrong vote.

Remember that we as a nation must live with the election results. For our country to be strong and prosperous, we need the proper elected leadership. You have a voice. Please use it at the ballot box!

Edited by Budapest, 01 November 2010 - 05:20 PM.
Moved from the Speak Easy ~BP

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. - Benjamin Franklin

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#2 boopme

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 08:48 PM

I did as always
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#3 wkid

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:26 PM

Thank you for exercising your right and responsibility!
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. - Benjamin Franklin

#4 boopme

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:42 PM

Thanks,but no need to thanks me . It's a duty to me. All people that can vote must. This was a perfect example that your vote does matter.
How do I get help? Who is helping me?For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear....Become a BleepingComputer fan: Facebook

#5 wkid

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:51 PM

Perhaps I should have phrased it in a different manner. --- I appreciate your contribution to our way of life through your participation in yesterday's elections.

Additionally I know the source of your well chosen signature. It speaks directly to today's society.

regards,
wkid
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. - Benjamin Franklin

#6 boopme

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 01:13 PM

Hey I was funnin' with you a bit too.. I appreciated the topic myself.
Yes.. that's why it's there . Everyday I see another example of it in many facets of a given day. Just another truth that given long ago.
How do I get help? Who is helping me?For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear....Become a BleepingComputer fan: Facebook

#7 wkid

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 02:22 PM

yep ... yep ... and yep!
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. - Benjamin Franklin

#8 ABNINF

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 03:43 PM

I voted, my wife voted and soon ... my son will be able to vote. My daughter has a year and a half but in reality my son and daughter will both vote in their first election in 2012 unless something local pops up.

KC

#9 wkid

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 04:18 PM

Excellent! Stay involved and continue to set the example for your children.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. - Benjamin Franklin

#10 ABNINF

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 05:01 PM

Excellent! Stay involved and continue to set the example for your children.


No worries there! Someone has to watch them .... that job was given to 'We the People'.

KC

#11 wkid

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 05:17 PM

We the People :thumbsup:


that is the key!
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. - Benjamin Franklin

#12 Bezukhov

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:02 AM

Of course some, such as myself, share the same sentiments of the author of this article: You Can't Complain If You *Did* Vote. I voted, in all honesty. But I can hold my head up high, because every name that I wrote in has been dead for the past 2,000 years. This years theme were those who are commonly called The Five Good Emperors. Nerva, Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninus Pius, and my favorite, Marcus Aurelius. I jotted down a note on my ballot to the effect that even in death they are far more preferable than the crop of clowns that were on the ballot.

Always remember, we elect. Some other power selects who gets put on the ballot.

And if you have the time Lysander Spooner is always an interesting read:

No Treason
To err is Human. To blame it on someone else is even more Human.

#13 wkid

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:28 AM

Hi Bezukhov,

Your linked articles are interesting to say the least.

Admittedly our system of government is imperfect. I have yet to find a better one on this planet. The political system is the most visible evidence of the government. Freedoms and restrictions we encounter in our daily life are, in large part, the manifestation of the government. I'm quite sure that those who have an unconditional love for government and politics are small in number.

Let's take a generalized look at mankind as applied to society. Generalized is the key word. Counter arguments based on specifics or exceptions do not negate the big picture. They are merely pieces of the big picture.

For the purpose of conversation, a body of people tends to loose common direction once it exceeds a population of about ten. Human ego left unchecked by moral code always eliminates the welfare of the body, which I will call by the name of society. Society must have established guidelines for acceptable behavior. We call this laws. An enforcement group and judiciary supply order, punish offenders, and settle disputes. Once society grows in population and disperses geographically, some form of leadership becomes necessary to unify the group.

Many tasks cannot be accomplished by one person. These tasks require a "team". How often does a team operate efficiently and successfully without leadership? Larger tasks require larger teams and better leadership, layered leadership as tasks grow in scope and scale. Specialization evolves. There must be coordination of the specialized contributions for society to benefit. You guessed it, leadership provides coordination.

What else does society require? Examples include, but are not limited to: common defense, infrastructure, and common media of exchange (currency). None of these things can be formulated and implemented by an individual. Some form of representation and leadership must exist in a free society. Arguments about the state of our freedom do not apply here. This is a general analysis of mankind and society as applied to politics and government.

Admittedly my explanation is incomplete. The subject has been the object of debate for centuries. The debate will continue until the curtain is drawn to close the last act of the play we call life. Therefore for the sake of brevity, I move on to the subject of your objections regarding our voting process.

In recent years I have observed that the major difference between our two political parties can be evaluated one of two ways. A thin coat of paint distinguishes one from the other. --OR-- One party is the combo meal. The other party is the combo meal with a diet drink. A restructuring of one or both parties is necessary. The alternative is many candidates with the victor garnering let's say 20% of the vote. No majority voice is represented, just a plurality. Sure we could have a run off election, but it is too hard to entice registered voters to go to the polls without having additional elections.

The vetting process which chooses the candidates to represent us is frustrating when none of them represent our beliefs. It can appear the we have King Makers who own both horses in the race. Our most recent election reveals how effective a grass roots movement can be to affect change. I am neither approving nor disapproving the "Tea Party" movement in this discussion. I am merely pointing out how successful a like minded group can be. Guess what? Leadership was a key element in this movement. If you are unhappy with our politics or government, there are like minded individuals you can join forces with. Remember that your choice to abstain from voting is, in effect, a vote.

What are the alternatives to our system? The two extremes are dictatorship and pure democracy. Dictatorship tramples all personal freedom. Pure democracy is pure mob rule. Our system was designed to balance personal freedom with the constraints necessary for society to live in freedom and peace, while providing the tools necessary for a strong, vibrant nation. Admittedly we have strayed from the base guidelines which form the foundation of our great nation.

I have never found a better, more succinct, analysis than the one found here in both audio and text format or here in video format. Unfortunately the first link has an infinite audio loop, but the facility to read along with the audio makes it worthy of inclusion.

This is my opinion based on thoughtful consideration. It is not intended to promote strife. To the contrary I wish to stimulate thoughtful consideration.

Submitted with all due respect,
wkid
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. - Benjamin Franklin

#14 wkid

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:20 AM

EDIT

Remember that your choice to abstain from voting is, in effect, a vote.


Your write in of dead leaders is no different than no vote. You may wish to check the voting laws in your state. In mine any write in will invalidate the entire ballot.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. - Benjamin Franklin

#15 Bezukhov

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:22 AM

Admittedly our system of government is imperfect. I have yet to find a better one on this planet. The political system is the most visible evidence of the government. Freedoms and restrictions we encounter in our daily life are, in large part, the manifestation of the government. I'm quite sure that those who have an unconditional love for government and politics are small in number.


The 'imperfections' in governments, all governments, is in its purpose. Governments are instituted to give sanction and legitimacy to acts if practiced by an individual would be considered immoral. For example, if I was to rob my neighbor with the justification that he had more than I, I would be soundly, and rightly condemned. If a group votes to take the property of others because those others have more, now its moral and pure.

Let's take a generalized look at mankind as applied to society. Generalized is the key word. Counter arguments based on specifics or exceptions do not negate the big picture. They are merely pieces of the big picture.

For the purpose of conversation, a body of people tends to loose common direction once it exceeds a population of about ten. Human ego left unchecked by moral code always eliminates the welfare of the body, which I will call by the name of society. Society must have established guidelines for acceptable behavior. We call this laws. An enforcement group and judiciary supply order, punish offenders, and settle disputes. Once society grows in population and disperses geographically, some form of leadership becomes necessary to unify the group.


Another example of confusing society with government. Two different animals, IMHO. And why is a 'common direction' so vitally important? We are not a herd of cattle, or better yet, a flock of sheep. And either moral codes are present, and practiced, by the individual or they won't be practiced at all. Instituting a government by immoral people is worse than no government at all. In a nutshell, which came first? Moral codes, and then government; or governments and then a moral code? The only code I follow is the Non Aggression Principle. My right to swing my fists ends at your nose.

Many tasks cannot be accomplished by one person. These tasks require a "team". How often does a team operate efficiently and successfully without leadership? Larger tasks require larger teams and better leadership, layered leadership as tasks grow in scope and scale. Specialization evolves. There must be coordination of the specialized contributions for society to benefit. You guessed it, leadership provides coordination.


I agree with you that team work is crucial for many things. My support for such team work ends when I am forced and coerced into joining a team against my will. Governments' ace in the hole is the initiation of force to get what it wants. That violates the Non Aggression Principle.

What else does society require? Examples include, but are not limited to: common defense, infrastructure, and common media of exchange (currency). None of these things can be formulated and implemented by an individual. Some form of representation and leadership must exist in a free society. Arguments about the state of our freedom do not apply here. This is a general analysis of mankind and society as applied to politics and government.


My problem with the concept of the 'common defense', or a better term is the 'collectivist defense', is that I am not thrilled by the idea that others will decide for me who my enemies are to be. I am intelligent enough, I hope, to figure that out for myself. And it isn't all that strange in the end that 'defense' means going half way around the world and engaging in 'offensive' actions. Anyways, history has taught us that a well armed populace engageing in a gueriila war can stymy even the most powerful and expensive military.

As for any infrastucture if thats what is needed you will have it, government or not. That principle holds true for a lot of necessities that are not monopolized by government.

The only common media of exchange that is ever needed in a free society is what ever two people decide that they want to exchange. Apples for oranges, wine for whiskey, or a pile of dirt for a string of pearls. Anyone perusing the business section of their local paper can see what a mess it is when one group decides to impose on the rest of us what they want us to trade with. In this case paper money, whose value flucuates with every utterance from our supposed leaders.

If you haven't guessed by now I am an Anarcho-Capitalist, I'll come out and say it now. So it isn't for me what kind of government, rather do we need a government at all. But thank you for your input,wkid. I enjoy an exchange of ideas over my morning coffee.
To err is Human. To blame it on someone else is even more Human.




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