Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Desktop shuting down with no kinds of notification.


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 pleurebleu

pleurebleu

  • Members
  • 54 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the move
  • Local time:10:51 PM

Posted 28 October 2010 - 06:16 PM

Hello everybody :thumbsup:

I am running windows 7 64bit on a desktop I built.
I don't know exactly what kind of additional information might be needed whether it is hardware or software description so I'll wait until I am requested for any of these information to post them so that I don't make this post too hard or too long to read.

History:
This has started happening I would say about 8 or 9 months ago. The frequency at which it happens is definitely increasing. It used to happen only while I was performing tasks such as playing a full-screen game but since last week it happened twice while I was doing some basic web browsing.

The problem:
My desktop basically shuts down suddenly with no noise, no errors popping up or no timer before it does so. It just simply shuts down as if I had been pressing the power button and holding until it would do so.

Once I turn it back on two scenarios have happened:

First scenario, I hear the heat sink turning on, the little power led comes turns on, but my screen will remain as if it was not connected to the desktop while displaying a message basically informing me that it receives no signal. If I leave it long enough I do not hear the sound windows usually play when it turns on (I removed my session password so I could try that). From then, I turn it back off, turn my power supply off, wait a bit, turn it back on, press power button. If I'm lucky it now works and I get a screen informing me that "the system has failed to boot several times" and if I'm not I'll have to turn the power supply off again and repeat until success.

Second scenario, it turns on as if nothing happened.

In either case once I reach my desktop screen I get absolutely no notifications or messages that could lead me to understanding the problem.

A knowledgeable friend recommended me to get a ups which I did. I installed it this morning and was disappointed to find out that it did not fix the problem as my desktop just shut down twice in a 4hour time interval.

Any help is welcome!

BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 pleurebleu

pleurebleu
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 54 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the move
  • Local time:10:51 PM

Posted 30 October 2010 - 11:02 AM

My problem has yet to be tackled :flowers:

I was reading some other topic in this forum and saw that most people were asked to post a speccy snapshot so here is mine, hopefully it will help. :thumbsup:

http://speccy.piriform.com/results/JpLRb4mB8Jxqky4hPOwGndN

#3 dc3

dc3

    Bleeping Treehugger


  • Members
  • 30,277 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sierra Foothills of Northern Ca.
  • Local time:02:51 PM

Posted 30 October 2010 - 11:38 AM

What you are describing sounds like a problem with the PSU.

The one thing that Speccy doesn't provide is the make and model of the PSU, would you please post that?

If you have voltage meter which reads DC voltages and are comfortable using it, you can use the tutorial below to test the rail voltages of the PSU.


Reading PSU Rail Voltages

Caution: Please read this before continuing.


· Since it will be necessary for your computer to be on during this procedure, you need to be aware that you will be working with live 12Volt DC potentials, which if handled improperly may lead to electrical shock.

· There are electronics inside the case that are very susceptible to electrostatic discharges. To protect your computer, touch the metal of the case to discharge yourself of any electrostatic charges before touching any of the components inside.

· If you are not comfortable doing this procedure, then I would suggest that you not use this tutorial. The risks involved are minimal, but are there nevertheless. Anyone who uses this tutorial will be doing so at their own risk.


There are two devices commonly used to read the rail voltages: a PSU tester, and a multimeter.

The PSU tester is the easiest to use since all that is necessary is to plug the different connectors into the tester and read the results on the LCD display. The problem with most of these is that they only perform a pass/fail test. They will not provide you with actual voltage readings.

There are a variety of multiple meters, but this tutorial will address Analog and Digital multimeters. The advantage of these meters is that you will be able to obtain accurate real time voltage readings.

For those of you who wish to know more about multimeters there is an excellent article in Wikipedia.


Analog Multimeter

Posted Image


An Analog multimeter is a little more complicated to use. Both Analog and Digital multimeters need to be set to the appropriate voltage, but with an Analog multimeter, you will need to choose the voltage range and must read the proper scale.

The Analog multimeter uses a needle display which moves from 0 across the scale until it reaches the voltage being tested. This multimeter has five major linear divisions with multiple scales to read a variety of ranges. An example would be three different ranges. The first is graduated in increments of 0 through 5, the second, 0 through 10, and the third, 0 through 25. Each of these ranges are subdivided into divisions that are graduated into tenths. In order to read 12 volts the 0 through 25 range would be the appropriate one.

Because DC voltage has positive and negative potentials this device is polar sensitive, this means that if you reverse the two probes when reading a positive DC voltage it will read as a negative voltage. This is actually necessary to read negative DC voltages. The two probes are differentiated by their color, Black (negative), and Red (positive). To read a positive DC voltage, the correct probes must be used with their corresponding potentials (positive to positive and negative to negative).

With the probes being used normally to read a negative DC voltage, the needle moves from the 0 to the left, "pegging" the needle. By reversing the probes you can properly read the negative voltages.

Digital Multimeter

Posted Image


The Digital multimeter (DMM) is much simpler to use. As was mentioned previously, you will need to set the appropriate voltage. One of the advantages is that the DMM has an LCD display with a numeric readout, so there are not any multiple scales to read. Another advantage is that most DMMs are autoranging when reading voltages, which means that you will not need to set the range with these DMMs. A DMM will read both positive and negative DC voltages and display them correctly. When reading a negative voltage, a minus sign will appear on the display before the numeric value. This still is a polar sensitive device, so you will still need to use the positive and negative probes with their corresponding potentials.

There are five different DC rail voltages which are color coded. The Black wires are always negative.

Yellow +12VDC

Blue -12VDC

Red +5VDC

White -5VDC

Orange +3.3VDC


There are only three voltages that can be measured easily without disconnecting the 20/24 pin connector from the motherboard: +12V, +5V, and +3.3V.

The +12V and +5V voltages can be read from a four pin Molex power connector.

Four pin Molex power connector

Posted Image


The same voltages can be taken from a four pin SATA power connector, but in order to read the +3.3V you will need to read this from a five pin SATA power connector as seen below.

Five pin SATA power connector.

Posted Image

To read these voltages you will need to insert the Black (-) probe into any of the black sockets, and insert the Red (+) probe in the different colored voltage sockets. To read the voltages from a SATA power connector it is easiest to insert the probes into the back of the connector where the wires enter. Unfortunately the sockets of the modular SATA power connectors are not accessible from the back, so the readings will need to be made from the socket side. Some probes are going to be too large to fit in these sockets, so you may need to insert a piece of wire into the socket of which you want to read the voltage of and place the probe on this for your reading. To reduce the potential of creating a short I would suggest taking the ground potential from another connector so that the two wires will remain physically separated.

Caution: It is very important to make sure that you don't allow the two probes to touch each other when taking the voltage readings. This will cause a short which could damage the PSU or other components.

To get accurate readings of the rail voltages it is important that there be a load on the PSU. In order to do this I would suggest downloading Prime95 for this purpose. This program was designed to be used by overclockers to put a full load on the RAM and CPU to determine the stability of their overclocking. Because of this it will put stress on the CPU and RAM which will create higher than normal temperatures. For this reason I would suggest not running this program any longer than is necessary. I would also suggest that an inspection be made of the interior of the case to make sure that there isn’t an accumulation of dust which would impede adequate cooling. Pay special attention to the heat sink and fan assembly on the CPU. If there is a dedicated graphics card with a fan installed on it, look at this fan as well.


Readings should not have variances larger than +/- five percent.

Maximum.........Minimum
12.6V...............11.4V
5.25V...............4.75V
3.47V...............3.14V

Edited by dc3, 30 October 2010 - 11:46 AM.

Family and loved ones will always be a priority in my daily life.  You never know when one will leave you.

 

 

 

 


#4 Darth sidious

Darth sidious

  • Members
  • 248 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nottingham, UK
  • Local time:09:51 PM

Posted 30 October 2010 - 11:39 AM

Strip the pc down so you just have cpu, ram, graphics card(unless onboard) connected to the motherboard only boot see if your no signal problem happens or it goes into endles loop of reboots indicating problem is either above components or mobo or psu, or if it brings up usual error messages about dvd drive and hd not detectedor missing. If the latter add devices one at a time booting to see if problem reoccurs and you know to test that device.
HP Compaq 6715b Notebook--AMD Turionx2 2.2Ghz 64 Mobile TL-64--4GB DDR2 667Mhz--Compaq 6715b--fujitsu siemens 500GB sataII Internal, Toshiba 1TB EXT HD Backup--IGP ATI Radeon x1250 128MB--Broadcom a\b\g Wlan adapter built in, Sonicwall TZ100, Dlink DSL 2740b--Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit and linux ubuntu dual boot--Firefox 4.0 &IE8--Eset Firewall--Nod32 antivirus & Spyware Doctor--Malwarebytes anti malware.

#5 pleurebleu

pleurebleu
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 54 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the move
  • Local time:10:51 PM

Posted 30 October 2010 - 12:39 PM

Hello,

My PSU is a Thermaltake Thoughpower CableManagement 1200W
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153054&nm_mc=AFC-Bleeping&cm_mmc=AFC-Bleeping-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA)

I unfortunately do not have a voltage meter and don't know anyone who would be able to lend me one.

Darth sidious, I can't provocate the shutdown. The next time it happens I will do the following: remove both graphics card, sdd, both hdds, blue-ray reader, any usb devices and I will then try to boot. I might not be able to isolate the problem in a single shot and would then have to wait until the shutdown triggers again. I will report by interval each time I am able to try something new.

I was also wondering, is my CPU temperature alright? according to speccy it seems to be in the 65-72 C when I'm web browsing. I am going to try running a cpu intensive process later today to see if it gets hotter.

#6 Darth sidious

Darth sidious

  • Members
  • 248 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nottingham, UK
  • Local time:09:51 PM

Posted 30 October 2010 - 01:18 PM

Hello,

My PSU is a Thermaltake Thoughpower CableManagement 1200W
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153054&nm_mc=AFC-Bleeping&cm_mmc=AFC-Bleeping-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA)

I unfortunately do not have a voltage meter and don't know anyone who would be able to lend me one.

Darth sidious, I can't provocate the shutdown. The next time it happens I will do the following: remove both graphics card, sdd, both hdds, blue-ray reader, any usb devices and I will then try to boot. I might not be able to isolate the problem in a single shot and would then have to wait until the shutdown triggers again. I will report by interval each time I am able to try something new.

I was also wondering, is my CPU temperature alright? according to speccy it seems to be in the 65-72 C when I'm web browsing. I am going to try running a cpu intensive process later today to see if it gets hotter.



The cpu temps are a bit high look at cleaning heatsink fan and other fans.
HP Compaq 6715b Notebook--AMD Turionx2 2.2Ghz 64 Mobile TL-64--4GB DDR2 667Mhz--Compaq 6715b--fujitsu siemens 500GB sataII Internal, Toshiba 1TB EXT HD Backup--IGP ATI Radeon x1250 128MB--Broadcom a\b\g Wlan adapter built in, Sonicwall TZ100, Dlink DSL 2740b--Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit and linux ubuntu dual boot--Firefox 4.0 &IE8--Eset Firewall--Nod32 antivirus & Spyware Doctor--Malwarebytes anti malware.

#7 pleurebleu

pleurebleu
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 54 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the move
  • Local time:10:51 PM

Posted 30 October 2010 - 10:09 PM

I'm in the habit to clean these about once a month and they are generally very clean.

#8 pleurebleu

pleurebleu
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 54 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the move
  • Local time:10:51 PM

Posted 31 October 2010 - 01:44 AM

Here's a speccy snapshot right after I quit a game of Civilization V.

I'm no genius but I guess that the temperature being in a red font means "warning".

http://speccy.piriform.com/results/GnaMBKb3aaH8oYBTwG0jNlj

What can I do?

#9 dc3

dc3

    Bleeping Treehugger


  • Members
  • 30,277 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sierra Foothills of Northern Ca.
  • Local time:02:51 PM

Posted 31 October 2010 - 04:01 AM

84C?!? There's your problem. The computer is shutting itself down to keep from killing itself.

Did you apply thermal compound between the heat sink and the CPU when you installed it?

Family and loved ones will always be a priority in my daily life.  You never know when one will leave you.

 

 

 

 


#10 Darth sidious

Darth sidious

  • Members
  • 248 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nottingham, UK
  • Local time:09:51 PM

Posted 31 October 2010 - 08:37 AM

Here's a speccy snapshot right after I quit a game of Civilization V.

I'm no genius but I guess that the temperature being in a red font means "warning".

http://speccy.piriform.com/results/GnaMBKb3aaH8oYBTwG0jNlj

What can I do?


Yep 84c is hot as dc3 has pointed out use some tim remover remove any old paste off heatsink and cpu and ensure surfaces are dry before re-applying new paste.

If that doesnt cure the problem replacing HSF would be next and other fans if HSF replacement doesnt work.
HP Compaq 6715b Notebook--AMD Turionx2 2.2Ghz 64 Mobile TL-64--4GB DDR2 667Mhz--Compaq 6715b--fujitsu siemens 500GB sataII Internal, Toshiba 1TB EXT HD Backup--IGP ATI Radeon x1250 128MB--Broadcom a\b\g Wlan adapter built in, Sonicwall TZ100, Dlink DSL 2740b--Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit and linux ubuntu dual boot--Firefox 4.0 &IE8--Eset Firewall--Nod32 antivirus & Spyware Doctor--Malwarebytes anti malware.

#11 pleurebleu

pleurebleu
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 54 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the move
  • Local time:10:51 PM

Posted 31 October 2010 - 12:35 PM

When I originally bought the components of my computer I was being helped by members of this forum and (I don't blame them) no one spotted the fact that the heat sink wasn't compatible with my "platform".

Thus, I was forced into using the heat sink that came with the CPU....
I did apply some thermal paste (something arctic ...) and I think I was so nervous that I must have watched dozens of youtube video showing the right quantity and way to go about doing it so I probably did an OK job.

What heat sink would you recommend for me to buy?

Also, would there be tutorial (with pictures if possible) that could help me through removing the old paste from the CPU?

Thanks very much for all the help :thumbsup:

#12 dc3

dc3

    Bleeping Treehugger


  • Members
  • 30,277 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sierra Foothills of Northern Ca.
  • Local time:02:51 PM

Posted 31 October 2010 - 02:47 PM

The thermal compound that is applied between the CPU and the heat sink only serves one function, that is to enhance the thermal convection, or thermal transference from the PCU heat spreader and the heat sink. There are macroscopic imperfections of the two surfaces, and the thermal compound "fills" those gaps.

I would reiterate the advice previously posted to remove the old compound, clean the two surfaces, and reapply the thermal compound.

A small amount about the size of a grain of rice is all that is needed. Apply it to the surface of the heat spreader of the CPU and spread it evenly. Then attach the heat sink and fan assembly.

Family and loved ones will always be a priority in my daily life.  You never know when one will leave you.

 

 

 

 


#13 pleurebleu

pleurebleu
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 54 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the move
  • Local time:10:51 PM

Posted 31 October 2010 - 05:53 PM

What do I use to remove the thermal paste and clean the two surfaces?

I have read some discussion about that and it seems like some people recommend using alcohol while others recommend using nail polish remover or acetone.

What's the better alternative?

Edited by pleurebleu, 31 October 2010 - 05:54 PM.


#14 dc3

dc3

    Bleeping Treehugger


  • Members
  • 30,277 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sierra Foothills of Northern Ca.
  • Local time:02:51 PM

Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:13 AM

I would not use acetone. Acetone can damage ceramic capacitors.

To clean off the majority of the material I use a plastic bank card to scrape the surface being careful not to scratch the surfaces of the CPU and heat sink. Alcohol can be used to remove the remaining residue.

Family and loved ones will always be a priority in my daily life.  You never know when one will leave you.

 

 

 

 


#15 pleurebleu

pleurebleu
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 54 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the move
  • Local time:10:51 PM

Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:53 PM

Well thank you very much for all these info.

I decided to buy a new case too and will do all that when I receive it.

I'll then post a reply to let you know about the resulting temperatures and whether I still have the "failure to boot several times" problem.

Thanks again :thumbsup:




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users