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Network printer doesn't like Router


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#1 Darren De Wilde

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 07:56 PM

Hi everyone,

I have an OKI network printer that is configured to use CIFS (Common Internet File Sharing) to scan to network folders on various users' computers. Each user on the network has a profile setup in the printer's admin pages with their shared folder on their personal computer named as MFPShare which is configured to be shared with Everyone.

The path to the folders is configured in the printer as \\<computer name>\MFPShare. The setup also uses a 16 port gigabit switch. The cable modem is wired by ethernet to the router and the router is ethernet connected to the 1st port on the switch.

Previously I used a Westell 750 DSL modem for internet provided by Verizon and everything worked fine with exactly the same setup, just a different router. The documents were successfully sent to the required folder on the user's laptop. We decided to switch ISP from Verizon to Cablevision due to DSL dropping in wet weather and therefore there was no DSL modem in the setup so I used a Netgear wireless router as replacement.

The problem I have is that whenever I try to scan to folder with the netgear in place, the printer fails and displays a

"Check DNS Settings" message. I've tried everything I can think of and spent hours trying to configure the printer networking setup page but there was no way. I tried disabling DDNS since there was a constant error code NG16 apprantly meaning the DNS was not found.

I tried configuring the router to use specific DNS settings from the ISP but that did not work either and I ended up setting it back to automatically use settings from ISP. I tried setting the computer's DNS settings (the computer I was working with while trying to get the scan to folder) along with static i.p in the Adapter configuraiton pages but kept getting the same message when I went back to scan to folder.

Actual Printing works fine across the network, but scanning to folders cannot be achieved with the Netgear. SInce we have not cancelled the DSL subscription I swapped out the routers again and put the DSL back on and now there is no problem scanning to folders again.

It is obvious that the netgear is the issue in the setup but I have no idea why or what to do to make the printer send scanned docs through it to the desired computer. I have not listed any specs for the computers in the network because it seems redundant given that scanning to folders works on one router and not another.

I would really like to use the netgear and cablevision service as it is faster but I must allow users to scan to folders so until I can resolve this netgear\DNS settings issue between the printer and the router I can't change.

It might be worth adding that the printer is connected via ethernet through a gigabit switch and that I even tried bypassing the switch and connecting directly from the router to the ethernet socket that feeds the wall outlet. Same problem as long as the netgear is in use. I had even considered that the issue may have been caused by having the computer in question on wireless and the printer on wired as if it couldn't find a path to the wireless computer so I created a wired connection on the test computer and tried to scan to the now wired comp with no luck.

I am pretty much out of ideas and wondered what suggestions I could use from here.

I am beat and invite all ideas with great thanks and gratitude.

Darren De Wilde

Edited by Darren De Wilde, 03 October 2010 - 08:00 PM.


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#2 Baltboy

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:16 PM

A few questions to clarify some things.

Previously I used a Westell 750 DSL modem for internet provided by Verizon and everything worked fine with exactly the same setup, just a different router.


What was the make and model of the other router? Why did you replace the router?

Are all the computers on a domain?

Are all of the computers/printers hooked up through the switch only?

Do an experiment.....while the DSL setup is installed do an ipconfig /all and write down everything. Now hook up the cable setup and do five things.
1. ipconfig /release
2. ipconfig /renew
3. ipconfig /flushdns
4. test for printing and scan functionality
5. ipconfig /all and compare to DSL setup if not working.

Let me know how it goes.....
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
Mark Twain

#3 Darren De Wilde

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 08:21 PM

Baltboy,

I really hope this description doesn't cause confusion.

Can't remember the model of the netgear router but i will add it in my next reply.

We added cablevision because verizon couldn't get their sh*t together with our fax line, so we paid for cable to have them provide a number for our fax machine. They gave us a nifty modem with battery back up which in my humble opinion, is much quicker than dsl. I had an old netgear which I rigged up to the cable modem and ran it as a backup internet service for when dsl went on the blink. Now I want to ditch DSL and stick with Cable but the netgear seems to cause confusion with DNS settings only when I try to scan to folders over the network. Sorry to sound like a dunce, but I honestly don't know if the computers are on a domain..I know that is different from a workgroup but cant suss out the domain bit...it does lead me to remember that in the printer's admin page under networking, under DNS Settings while using the dsl router, the domain in the printer network page says westell.com. So with the netgear and cable I tried changing the domain to optonline.net..lol..no good. I do figure that the dns that internet access relies on is different from what i would think would be some kind of local DNS which is causing probs during scanning...of course I could be totally wrong.

Theres a 12 port ethernet junction box (sorry not sure what it is called for real and didnt want to say Hub incase of bad use of terminology) in the data room which feeds the wired outlets in the offices and the computer room, the printer is connected by ethernet.

The switch is used to feed 4 wired connections while the wireless router feeds the wireless computers.
I will add that I have checked and matched the port number on the ethernet jack in the computer room with the number on the ethernet junction box. :-)

Thanks for the lead. I will try it this weekend, I get bollocked if I change the router since its a Real Estate office and the agents complain the second they cant connect or print when the net goes down so Sunday is the best time for me to play around with the system. Do I have to do the ipconfig release, renew and flush on every computer to which I want to scan? Does it matter what computer I run the ipconfig /all from while I test the DSL?

During reading my post I wondered if it mattered if the ports on the switch were randomly in use, ie: not sequential with open ports..only 4 of the available 16 are in use. I wouldn't have thought so since the DSL router doesn't seem to have a problem I am wondering maybe, if I should hard reset the router to clear out any old data that could be adding to the issue..??? I only know about holding down the reset button while it is on, if there is another way please let me know.

Thanks so much for your time and patience I will report back as soon as I have had a chance to try the netgear again..I am not one to give up easily.

p.s, the netgear distributes ip addresses with a 10.0.0.X...it used to be rigged to blue ridge cable in PA. It occured to me that ip addresses are normally 192.168.1.X..isn't it odd that the ip addresses are 10.0.0.x???

Edited by Darren De Wilde, 04 October 2010 - 08:38 PM.


#4 Wired68

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 06:09 AM

When using the DSL, do you have a DSL modem (the box that the phone plugs into) and a separate router which is connected to the modem and the switch, or do you only have the modem (meaning the modem is also acting as a router) and the 16port switch? Same question for the cable modem setup, do you have a cable modem, router, and a switch, or only the cable modem from the ISP and the switch? I'm trying to figure out why you needed the new Netgear router in the first place, since all you did was change ISP's.

I am asking because simply changing internet providers or modems would not change your internal computer's IP address range since your internal network is not affected by your internet service provider. SO if in both cases with either DSL or Cable, you have the modem (the box with either a phone line jack or a cable coax jack), a separate router, and the switch, then all you would need to do is swap out the modem and leave everything else the same. The problem though you may be having is since many DSL or Cable modems nowadays also have routers built into then, when you swapped out the modem, you essentially swapped out the router piece as well which would be why your internal IP's are trying to change and is the cause of the rest of your problems.

First realize that in your network, logically there are three devices needed;
1) A broadband modem, which is used to communicate with the outside world and to your service provider.
2) A switch, which is used to connect all your devices such as PC's and network printers together on the same subnet or network.
3) A router, which connects your inside network (switch) with the outside network or internet (modem) allowing all your computers to access the internet. This is also used to give internal IP addresses to your devices through DHCP.

Also again I said logically three devices, though sometimes these devices can physically be combined to one or two devices. In your case your switch at least always has been separate and nothing needs to change with it. If your modem and router are combined, then you will need to look at the settings on the router or LAN portion of the DSL modem and compair them with the settings on your new Netgear router and ensure that the LAN router IP (the IP which is listed on your computer as the default gateway) is the same, the IP range is the same (192.168.1.X vs 10.0.0.X), and any other settings you see, such as DHCP and port forwarding, are the same.

Again though if originally you did have separate devices for your modem and router, then all you need to do is change out the modems, restart the router and you should be back in business.


Sorry for the long response; I wanted to try to help you understand how everything works instead of just say try this, which in turn will help you troubleshoot your problem. If you have any questions or still can't get it to work, please respond with details on exactly what equipment you where using when everything worked fine with the DSL service and exactly what equipment you are using with the new Cable service, including brands and models of modems, routers, and switches (not including the computers or printers since the issue lies with the network portion).


Good luck and welcome to networking...trust me, it gets fun after awhile ;)

-Wired68

#5 Darren De Wilde

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 07:49 PM

Dear Wired68,

First of all thank you for your response,

I will answer your questions as non-ambiguously as possible..:-).

Question and answer 1

When using the DSL, do you have a DSL modem (the box that the phone plugs into) and a separate router which is connected to the modem and the switch, or do you only have the modem (meaning the modem is also acting as a router) and the 16port switch? Same question for the cable modem setup, do you have a cable modem, router, and a switch, or only the cable modem from the ISP and the switch? I'm trying to figure out why you needed the new Netgear router in the first place, since all you did was change ISP's.

The DSL modem goes straight to the switch (first port via ethernet) with no other router involved. Hence the modem is also acting as the router as you pointed out. With the cable modem however, there is a netgear router involved which then feeds the switch. I am beggining to see the problem as I write this, with no solution. The DSL modem\router will not provide an internet connection if I omit the dsl tel line and plug in the ethernet cable from the cable box to the uplink port on the DSL router. I tried. lol. Therefore it seems that the Cablevision modem is not intelligent enough to act as a router and a modem concurrently as the DSL modem does. This is why I need the netgear to act as a router for the cable modem for delivery of an internet connection as you also correctly stated.


Question and answer 2
I am asking because simply changing internet providers or modems would not change your internal computer's IP address range since your internal network is not affected by your internet service provider. SO if in both cases with either DSL or Cable, you have the modem (the box with either a phone line jack or a cable coax jack), a separate router, and the switch, then all you would need to do is swap out the modem and leave everything else the same. The problem though you may be having is since many DSL or Cable modems nowadays also have routers built into then, when you swapped out the modem, you essentially swapped out the router piece as well which would be why your internal IP's are trying to change and is the cause of the rest of your problems.

I think this is the main cause of symptoms but does that include DNS settings?..perhaps because the DSL router is providing a different DNS server than the netgear, but the printer still expects the old DNS settings somewhere when it goes through the router. The printer is not intelligent enough to know I changed routers so it fails when it does not recognize the new configuration in the router. But then if IP addresses were the issue then nobody would be able to print using the netgear (which they can). It only seems to be when we try to scan to folder using TCP/IP. I spoke to a cable tech who was at our office doing a different job and he actually verifed what you are saying in your post (cable equipment cannot go straight to the switch, a router is required to make the connection. whereas dsl is a bit smarter and can connect to the switch directly.)

Question and answer 3

First realize that in your network, logically there are three devices needed;
1) A broadband modem, which is used to communicate with the outside world and to your service provider.
2) A switch, which is used to connect all your devices such as PC's and network printers together on the same subnet or network.
3) A router, which connects your inside network (switch) with the outside network or internet (modem) allowing all your computers to access the internet. This is also used to give internal IP addresses to your devices through DHCP.

Also again I said logically three devices, though sometimes these devices can physically be combined to one or two devices. In your case your switch at least always has been separate and nothing needs to change with it. If your modem and router are combined, then you will need to look at the settings on the router or LAN portion of the DSL modem and compair them with the settings on your new Netgear router and ensure that the LAN router IP (the IP which is listed on your computer as the default gateway) is the same, the IP range is the same (192.168.1.X vs 10.0.0.X), and any other settings you see, such as DHCP and port forwarding, are the same.

Again though if originally you did have separate devices for your modem and router, then all you need to do is change out the modems, restart the router and you should be back in business.


Sorry for the long response; I wanted to try to help you understand how everything works instead of just say try this, which in turn will help you troubleshoot your problem. If you have any questions or still can't get it to work, please respond with details on exactly what equipment you where using when everything worked fine with the DSL service and exactly what equipment you are using with the new Cable service, including brands and models of modems, routers, and switches (not including the computers or printers since the issue lies with the network portion).


Good luck and welcome to networking...trust me, it gets fun after awhile ;)



Can I make the netgear provide 192.168.X.X ip addresses instead of 10.0.0.X? I cant be sure if the netgear providing 10.0.0.x addresses maybe causing a problem, but at risk of sounding redundant, it may be worth noting that the domain name in the printers network page states westell.com but when the netgear is in use that field is blank. just a thought. Thank you very much indeed for your considerable time and effort in helping. I do understand all of the networking points you made, just do not know how to make the netgear do what I need. I will combine the very useful points and instructions both you and Baltboy have provided and work on the issue this Sunday, but please do not hesitate to write any new info based on what I have written. Thanks so much,

Darren

Edited by Darren De Wilde, 05 October 2010 - 07:51 PM.


#6 Darren De Wilde

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 08:59 PM

Not sure if this page will solve my DNS problem but its pretty informative and taught me a little bit of something. Hope it helps anyone who visits. The page has apparently been created for linux\Debian but it seems the router principles explained are universal. It was created by a reputable Australian Computer Scientist by the name of Graham Williams.

Darren De Wilde

#7 Wired68

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 11:20 PM

Hi Darren,

Ok so just to confirm, your new setup should be cable modem to router WAN port, and the switch to the router LAN ports, with the computers/printers/etc connected to the switch.

What your problem is, is DHCP, not DNS. DNS provide name resolution for websites and computers so you don't have to type the IP Address for everything. In a small network like yours, the router will automatically act as a local DNS nothing needs to be down for this. The DNS you saw that changed is provided by your ISP, though does not matter if it changes since its to translate names such as bleepingcomputer.com. The reason you may be seeing this as the error message though is because the IP it still has may be configured still in the 192.168.1.X network and the netgear is using the 10.0.0.X network.

All you should have to do to make everything work is setup the Netgear first to have the same 192.168.1.X IP as your DSL modem/router had (probably 192.168.1.1, but double check first). Then in the Netgear, check the DHCP settings and make sure the scope is in the 192.168.1.X range and if not, you should be able to change it.
Also if after changing the IP on the netgear and you can no longer access it, you may need to temporarily manually set your computer IP to a 192.168.1.X address so you can contact it again. I do know for sure that the Netgear will allow you to change its IP without much of a problem.

The reason that the IP's changing like that is an issue is because 10.0.0.X and 192.168.1.X are completely different networks so if you have some devices on the new subnet and other devices still on the old subnet, there is no way for them to communicate without some more advanced routing, which the Netgear probably doesnt support. Once you get the Netgear IP set the same as the DSL modem/router was set as, and make sure your DHCP is setup correctly, you should be good to go.

If any device still cant see the other device, just either reboot it or run ipconfig /release then ipconfig /renew. Then run ipconfig /all to verify the device is on the 192.168.1.X network. You should also ping the router or default gateway address from the machines as well as ping a few other machines and the printer to verify connectivity.

If you are still unable to connect to the printer, try to reboot that as well in case it's IP changed from DHCP from all this. You may also want to set a static IP on the printer if possible to be sure its IP doesn't change so you can try connecting to it by IP instead of by name just in case DNS is giving you any problems.


Hope this helps some, let me know if you get any progress.

#8 Baltboy

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 10:02 AM

Itend to agree with Wired. This is the same thing I was checking with in the ipconfig commands I asked you to run. The only thing you may need to check in addition would be the settings in the printer if they are set to static to make sure gateway, dns, ect is the same and that the IP is on the same IP range.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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#9 Darren De Wilde

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 06:54 PM

Thank you for your replies and for taking the time to write them.. I really appreciate all your advice and expertise. Can't wait to get stuck in. I had no idea but after reading and googling I feel more confident that I can understand your instructions and advice and put them into action. What was puzzling to me as you have covered, was knowing that DNS is for translation purposes but I couldn't figure why the printer was throwing it back as a problem given it was a local networking issue. So your direction away from DNS and more to DHCP seems more fitting. I will let you guys know once I have solved the prob. :thumbsup:

#10 Darren De Wilde

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 09:42 PM

Dear Post readers,

I am glad to announce that the netgear router issue with DNS Settings when scanning to network folders has been resolved.

When the DSL modem was in use, the multifunction unit scan profiles were configured to use computer names of attached devices. When the netgear was in use It stopped scanning and produced a "Check DNS Setting error".

The solution was to change the computer names e.g <\\DARREN-PC\MFPShare> in the profile for the network scan to use the target device's ip address <\\192.168.1.14\MFPShare>. Voila, no more issues scanning across the network. A rather elusive, hard to figure change whose absense caused weeks of frustration, who knew that's all that was needed???

I am still interested to know why that change was needed if anyone has input?

I wanted to thank all contributors to helping me find the solution. THANK YOU!!!!! :-)
Darren

Edited by Darren De Wilde, 20 October 2010 - 09:44 PM.


#11 Darren De Wilde

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 09:58 PM

On further reading, it becomes more understandable why it was a DNS error - the device names in use in the profile could not be resolved by the router since it probably requires an ip address to work with in resolving the DNS of the target device. I suppose both routers stored the DNS info of attached devices differently. The DSL modem was smarter and could take the device name of the target and work out its ip address whereas the netgear cannot and needs the ip address to be provided for the target.

So in short the netgear requires an i.p. address to be sent to it so it can resolve the computer name with the associated device. By supplying a device name to the netgear instead of an i.p address, the netgear could not find a specified i.p address in the data and returned an exception to the printer saying that it could not resolve the supplied I.P address (because it was not present with the job data as far as the router was concerned)in its DNS Cache, hence the Check DNS Settings error was produced by the printer when the error was recieved from the router.

An educated guess at least. :-)

Darren De Wilde

Edited by Darren De Wilde, 20 October 2010 - 10:02 PM.


#12 Baltboy

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 11:34 AM

Thanks for the info!!! I usually stick to Linksys...now Cisco products which I never seem to have this issue with.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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