Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Increasing Wireless Range


  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 splackavellie

splackavellie

  • Members
  • 133 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Local time:03:30 AM

Posted 28 October 2005 - 01:01 AM

ok we have a linksys b/g router and was wondering if we could do anything to increase the range. right now the router is on the second floor b/c that is where bellsouth added an internet outlet. we can get signal on the 1st floor sometimes, but its not consistant. sometimes it would take awhile for it to connect, but once it connects it seems to hold the signal pretty well. the main problem is trying to connect as i have to go to a few specific areas first to be able to connect. was wondering whats the best way to improve this.

i was thinking of maybe an access point and/or a higher gain antenna. however those things would run about $50-60. a little too expensive seeing as how routers run for about the same price. so me and my dad got to thinking. we could either:
a) go ahead and get an access point and/or antenna

:thumbsup: just get those pre-n(whatever they call it) router that is suppose to give you alot better range and speed (there was a belkin pre-n router at frys for $80). just not sure how much better range you get with those things though.

c)if bellsouth can add a DSL connection to an existing telephone line, then so can we. we were thinking of adding one on the first floor and setting up the router there. and then the computer upstairs can still be wired straight to the outlet w/o going through the router. only problem with this is im not sure if this will work. so bellsouth only gives us 1 IP address and then the router just makes up IP address for all the computer that is connected to it? i dont know how DSL works. maybe some1 can give a quick simlpe explanation just so i can understand it better.

oh and we dont have the modem thing. we go straight from the wall to the router.

anyone know if option "c" is possible or if it shouldnt even be considered at all?


not sure why that smily face thing is there....its suppose to be option "b"

Edited by splackavellie, 28 October 2005 - 08:34 AM.


BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


m

#2 acklan

acklan

    Bleepin' cat's meow


  • Members
  • 8,529 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Baton Rouge, La.
  • Local time:01:30 AM

Posted 28 October 2005 - 02:06 AM

Option C. It's not pretty but it is an option. HPNA.
"2007 & 2008 Windows Shell/User Award"

#3 splackavellie

splackavellie
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 133 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Local time:03:30 AM

Posted 28 October 2005 - 08:33 AM

sounds interesting, just not too sure how it works. so it basically just something that converts a phone line to something you can plug an ethernet cable in? also there doesnt seem to be any products with prices on that site. sot sure if it selling a product or a service

heres an idea that i just though about after looking at that site. those DSL connections that uses a modem, they have this thing that plugs into the phone outlet and you connect the modem to it. what if i connect the router to it instead. would that work?

#4 Rimmer

Rimmer

  • Members
  • 2,159 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:near Sydney, Australia
  • Local time:05:30 PM

Posted 28 October 2005 - 06:13 PM

Here is my limited understanding of the situation:

You have phone outlets on both floors. You have a DSL modem and a Linksys router (or maybe the DSL modem is in the router?) on the second floor connected to a phone outlet, possibly shared with your phone?
The other phones have a filter between them and the wall outlets?

If that is the situation I think you should have no problem moving the DSL modem and router to the 1st floor and connecting to a phone outlet there. Just remember to unplug the filter from the outlet where the router is connected and always have a filter between a phone and an outlet.
Then my suggestion would be to mount (place) the router high in the room e.g. on top of a bookshelf, that way it gives good coverage of the 1st floor and is also nearer to everything on the second floor. This may fix your range problem.

Pre-N wireless devices are supposed to have 10 times the range of the B or G standard devices and they are compatible with B/G devices. But I'm not sure what the range increase would be Pre-N <--> B/G.

hth :thumbsup:

Soltek QBIC, Pentium 4 3.0GHz, 512MB RAM, 200GB SATA HDD, ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB, Netgear 54Mb/s WAP, ridiculously expensive Satellite Broadband
Windows XP Home SP2, Trend Micro Internet Security, Firefox, Thunderbird, AdAwareSE, Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster, A-squared Free, Ewido Security Suite.

#5 splackavellie

splackavellie
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 133 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Local time:03:30 AM

Posted 28 October 2005 - 09:43 PM

ok i was thinking about the same thing with the Pre-N and B/G and thats why we didnt go with. just needed a confirmation

ok i guess i need to paint a better picture of the situation

we have bellsouth and they said that we dont need a modem like most DSL do. what they did was they came to the house and made one of our phone line into a DSL line. so we connect straight to the outlet w/o a modem

so it goes like this: outlet -> router -> desktop (wired). what we need to know is if we can just make one of our phone outlet to a DSL outler like bellsouth did. we just want to do it ourself b/c i think bellsouth will charge $99.

2nd question: what are those things that connects from the phone outlet to a modem (not a router)? at my apt. for school, our set up goes like this: outlet -> some sort of converter -> modem -> router -> computer(s). what is that converter thing? can that be used at my house?

#6 Rimmer

Rimmer

  • Members
  • 2,159 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:near Sydney, Australia
  • Local time:05:30 PM

Posted 29 October 2005 - 12:13 AM

what we need to know is if we can just make one of our phone outlet to a DSL outler like bellsouth did.


Well the short answer is NO.
If the US situation is similar to Australia then it is illegal for you to modify any fixed telecommunications wiring, for the very good reason that if you stuff it up you may bring down comms in the whole neighbourhood. Any businesses operating nearby? You will be hearing from their lawyers, if that scenario arose, when they find out (and they will) who is responsible.

The situation is too complicated for me to help you, I had a look at the Bellsouth broadband site and they give some good explanatory stuff there. Here are some extracts I thought might shed light on your situation:

Info from http://www.bellsouth.com/broadband/dsl_sol...phone%20service

What is DSL?
Digital Subscriber Line (DSL) is a technology that allows high-speed data transfer over existing copper facilities. DSL is also a generic term used to describe a set of technologies that are similar, such as ADSL, IDSL, SHDSL, and SDSL. DSL makes the transport of multimedia applications over existing twisted pair copper telephone lines possible. DSL supplies three separate frequency channels over the same phone line. It supports two-way transmission of analog voice (POTS), a downstream (toward the customer) digital broadband channel of up to 6 Mbps for data, and an upstream (toward the CO) digital channel of up to 640 Kbps. The rates of the digital channels depend on the physical and electrical characteristics of the loop (primarily loop length and wire gauge) and on the DSL technology deployed.


What is a NID?
The Network Interface Device (NID) is the official demarcation point between the regulated telephone company network and the end user's private network. All wiring and user devices in the private network (i.e., a modem) are controlled by the owner, not the NSP. In the United States, if an NSP wants to provide equipment beyond the network demarcation, the provider must first have permission from any regulators involved and the customer must agree. The NID may also be called the network termination unit or demarc. For most single-family homes, some townhouses, and condos the NID consists of an external gray box mounted on the side of the home.

What NID information does the NSP require for DSL installation?
A prerequisite for the successful installation of DSL is the presence of a DSL compatible NID. Most newer, DSL compatible NIDs are 6 x 6 or larger in size. They are gray, plastic boxes with the words Telephone Network Interface embossed on the covers. However, some older homes have the older style 150 type protector device in which both the local loop and inside wiring are connected to the same binding. This old type of NID must be replaced by BellSouth technicians before DSL can be installed at the site.


Does this ring any bells? (pardon the pun!)
This led me to believe that all your phone outlets were equal and therefore you could move the router placement around as you like but then I saw this - Have a look here at the 649A-1:
http://www.hometech.com/techwire/dsl.html

The 649A1 splits the incoming signal to provide separate outputs for filtered voice (phone) and ADSL (data), in the form of screw terminals, eliminating any impedances that interfere with communications. The Outdoor POTS Splitter is designed to be mounted on a wall or conduit next to a Network Interface Device (NID).


- which looks like the DSL and phone are split at the entry to the building and you have one fixed DSL outlet which you would have to pay to be relocated.

Others with personal experience of the local DSL setup may be able to confirm or deny my deductions.

hth :thumbsup:

Edited by Rimmer, 29 October 2005 - 12:16 AM.


Soltek QBIC, Pentium 4 3.0GHz, 512MB RAM, 200GB SATA HDD, ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB, Netgear 54Mb/s WAP, ridiculously expensive Satellite Broadband
Windows XP Home SP2, Trend Micro Internet Security, Firefox, Thunderbird, AdAwareSE, Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster, A-squared Free, Ewido Security Suite.

#7 acklan

acklan

    Bleepin' cat's meow


  • Members
  • 8,529 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Baton Rouge, La.
  • Local time:01:30 AM

Posted 29 October 2005 - 12:41 AM

HPNA on Ebay

Hang this like a smoke detector. Indoor ceiling mount antenna
"2007 & 2008 Windows Shell/User Award"

#8 splackavellie

splackavellie
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 133 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Local time:03:30 AM

Posted 30 October 2005 - 05:15 PM

hhmm...this looks like it would be more complicated than i thought

not sure about the NID. i havent really noticed some gray boxe outside but next time i go home i will look for this. not sure if the DSL and phone are split at the entry and that we have a fixed DSL outlet b/c when the guy came he asked where we wanted the outlet. so im thinking that he could very well have made an outlet anywhere we would have liked.

If the US situation is similar to Australia then it is illegal for you to modify any fixed telecommunications wiring, for the very good reason that if you stuff it up you may bring down comms in the whole neighbourhood.

what do you mean by stuff it up? like have more computers connected to it? i just though that it would be like having more computers connected to the router but instead of connecting to the router its just connected to the outlet. (kinda like cable(tv) i guess and that you have cable outlet in each room). i thought that bellsouth just gives us a max upload/download speed and the more comps connected, it would just slow us down and not affect anyone else.

still not sure how that HPNA thing works

Edited by splackavellie, 30 October 2005 - 05:16 PM.


#9 acklan

acklan

    Bleepin' cat's meow


  • Members
  • 8,529 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Baton Rouge, La.
  • Local time:01:30 AM

Posted 30 October 2005 - 06:20 PM

It just uses the POTS line to carry the signal. Similar to ethernet just a different protocol not not near the kbs. But it will carry the current max most home users are allow by their ISP.

Edited by acklan, 30 October 2005 - 06:20 PM.

"2007 & 2008 Windows Shell/User Award"

#10 Rimmer

Rimmer

  • Members
  • 2,159 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:near Sydney, Australia
  • Local time:05:30 PM

Posted 30 October 2005 - 07:06 PM

im thinking that he could very well have made an outlet anywhere we would have liked.


Indeed he could have, if it was practical to run the wires. My point was not where the outlet is but what it is.

If I may grossly simplify the situation for a moment - DSL= high frequency signal, Telephone = low frequency signal. Both these signals go down the same phone line from your home to the rest-of-the-world. At some point in or near your dwelling the signals have to be split so they don't interfere with each other's equipment. The splitting is done with filters that block one of the signals.

In some places both signals go to every phone outlet in the house and there are filters on every phone so computers and phones can be moved around to whatever outlet you want. It costs more in filters but no rewiring is needed.

In other places there is a filter where the phone line enters the building and the low frequency signal is sent to all the phone outlets and the high frequency signal is sent to one (new) phone outlet - called the DSL outlet. That means if you plug a phone into the DSL outlet it won't work and if you plug your DSL router into a phone outlet it wont work. This is often done in areas where the house wiring is likely to be unsuitable for DSL since DSL signals need higher quality cable than used to be used for phones. The phone company would have upgraded the street wiring for DSL (if needed) but they don't want to rewire everyones homes, so they just do one outlet. This sounds like your situation.

For the reasons I stated earlier it is illegal for you to alter or move that outlet. This has nothing to do with how many PCs you plug in - if you plugged a PC directly into the DSL outlet it wouldn't work anyway, you have to go via a DSL device such as your router.

I hope that's made it clearer. :thumbsup:

Soltek QBIC, Pentium 4 3.0GHz, 512MB RAM, 200GB SATA HDD, ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB, Netgear 54Mb/s WAP, ridiculously expensive Satellite Broadband
Windows XP Home SP2, Trend Micro Internet Security, Firefox, Thunderbird, AdAwareSE, Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster, A-squared Free, Ewido Security Suite.

#11 splackavellie

splackavellie
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 133 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Local time:03:30 AM

Posted 30 October 2005 - 09:58 PM

ok that made alot of things clearer. thanks. since its pretty apparent that doing this would be illegal, im not even gonna consider it anymore. now i just want to understand this.

ok in our case, we can plug the computer straight to the DSL outlet and it would work. does this change anything? its because of this reason that i thought i could just tap into the line and create another DSL outlet elsewhere. it seems like just knowing which of the wires to use (i looked at how the guy wired it)

in my apt at school, we dont have a DSL outlet. instead we have one of those filter/converter things that plugs into the phone outlet and that goes to the modem. w/o the modem we cant go online.

so how come we need a modem at my apt but not at my house? and would that filter/converter thing work at my house? sorry if its taking me awhile to understand this, not everything seems to be sinking in yet

Edited by splackavellie, 30 October 2005 - 09:59 PM.


#12 Rimmer

Rimmer

  • Members
  • 2,159 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:near Sydney, Australia
  • Local time:05:30 PM

Posted 31 October 2005 - 12:24 AM

ok in our case, we can plug the computer straight to the DSL outlet and it would work.


You're kidding, right?

so how come we need a modem at my apt but not at my house?


I would suggest you do have a DSL modem at your house - it's built in to the router.

would that filter/converter thing work at my house?


I don't think so, but you would be better off asking Bellsouth (or searching their website) because there are so many possible combinations I really cannot say with any certainty.

:thumbsup:

Soltek QBIC, Pentium 4 3.0GHz, 512MB RAM, 200GB SATA HDD, ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB, Netgear 54Mb/s WAP, ridiculously expensive Satellite Broadband
Windows XP Home SP2, Trend Micro Internet Security, Firefox, Thunderbird, AdAwareSE, Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster, A-squared Free, Ewido Security Suite.

#13 acklan

acklan

    Bleepin' cat's meow


  • Members
  • 8,529 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Baton Rouge, La.
  • Local time:01:30 AM

Posted 31 October 2005 - 02:15 AM

so how come we need a modem at my apt but not at my house?


Using a wireless router you maybe tapping in on someone elses signal. There maybe an unsecure LAN near your house you are intercepting signal from.
"2007 & 2008 Windows Shell/User Award"

#14 splackavellie

splackavellie
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 133 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Local time:03:30 AM

Posted 31 October 2005 - 08:03 PM

ok in our case, we can plug the computer straight to the DSL outlet and it would work.


You're kidding, right?

im pretty sure that we can since we didnt get a router until a week after we got the line installed and my dad said he was able to get online. but i will double check on this b/c i do remember him saying that he had problems connecting online.



so how come we need a modem at my apt but not at my house?


Using a wireless router you maybe tapping in on someone elses signal. There maybe an unsecure LAN near your house you are intercepting signal from.


not sure i understand. yes there are unsecured LAN near our house that i can "see", but we are not connecting to those.

Edited by splackavellie, 31 October 2005 - 08:05 PM.


#15 acklan

acklan

    Bleepin' cat's meow


  • Members
  • 8,529 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Baton Rouge, La.
  • Local time:01:30 AM

Posted 31 October 2005 - 08:48 PM

Just trying to cover all the bases. It's not uncommon to access someone elses LAN with a wifi card. Without a modem I can't see how you can access the internet, except how I just describe.
Sorry
"2007 & 2008 Windows Shell/User Award"




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users