Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

New XFX 9800gt not recognised


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Jimi2000

Jimi2000

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:31 AM

Posted 07 August 2010 - 06:31 AM

Hello all

This is my first post so, hello! Looking forward to meeting some of you guys and maybe getting some help... perhaps I'll be able to help here and there also.

Which brings me to the point of my post.

I have an old Nvidia 8500gt which I want to upgrade. I bought a Zotac 9800gt which was not recognised by my computer. I RMA'd it and was refunded.

Next I bought an ATI 4850 which worked well, for a couple of days, before artefacts began to appear, closely followed by BSOD. This was duly RMA'd.

I then bought an XFX 9800gt which... guess what... wasn't recognised in Windows device manager. I'm wondering why.

Specs are:

Foxconn K8M890 M2MB RS2H motherboard, with AMD Athlon 64 x2 4000+ cpu.
Zalman ZM460-APS 460w psu.
2g RAM.
Soundblaster Audigy Platinum.
Single 250gig hard drive.
Windows 7 Ultimate.

What happened with each of the 9800gt gpus was when I installed and switched on, a clicking noise happened as though the computer was trying to start up, after 18 clicks (or so) it decided to start, but with onboard graphics only. The fan was spinning.

When I got the Zotac I had a crappy generic 300w psu which was deemed not powerful enough, so I bought the Zalman. Still no joy.

Can anyone suggest what the problem might be? Have I just been unlucky, with three dead cards in a row? Or is my motherboard not compatible with a more powerful card? I'm sure I have enough power to run it. Just wondering if its getting through.

I would try the card on another computer but I don't think it's possible.

Any help will be much appreciated, I'm a bit fed up.

Thanks for reading this epic essay

Jim

BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 MrBruce1959

MrBruce1959

    My cat Oreo


  • BC Advisor
  • 6,377 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, Connecticut. in the USA
  • Local time:03:31 AM

Posted 07 August 2010 - 10:11 AM

Hello and welcome to Bleepingcomputer.

Glad to have you on-board as a new member.

First I want to point out that your PSU's specs are not all that powerful, you listed Zalman ZM460-APS 460w psu as being your PSU, the thing that matters the most is how many Amps there is on the 12 volt rail and how many pieces of hardware there is drawing off that amperage.

This is a link to your PSU's specs http://www.zalman.com/eng/product/Product_Read.asp?Idx=232 Please check section #2 for your PSU's electrical specs.

+12V1 1.0A 16A 19A

I provided the basic outputs above for the 12 volt rail, the max is 16 Amps, the peak is 19 Amps, if you have enough hardware in your computer consuming that 19 Amps, then there is a limited amount to go around for your other hardware to function properly. So I think one of your problems is there is not enough PSU output from your present PSU to support these video cards.

Aside from that, you may have settings in your BIOS setup utility which need to be changed to accommodate these video cards, or a BIOS Flash update may be needed to support newer cards.

Bruce.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 07 August 2010 - 10:15 AM.

Welcome to Bleeping Computer! :welcome:
New Members: Please click here for the Bleeping Computer Forum Board Rules
 
My Career Involves 37 Years as an Electronics Repair Technician, to Which I am Currently Retired From.

I Am Currently Using Windows 10 Home Edition.

As a Volunteer Staff Member of Bleeping Computer, the Help That I Proudly Provide Here To Our BC Forum Board Membership is Free of Charge. :wink:

#3 Jimi2000

Jimi2000
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:31 AM

Posted 08 August 2010 - 12:36 PM

Blimey, really? I thought this Zalman should handle the 9800gt. It's one without a power socket though so I guess not.

Upgrading is a long and rocky road, isn't it.

Well thanks for your help... back to Ebay...

Jim

#4 MrBruce1959

MrBruce1959

    My cat Oreo


  • BC Advisor
  • 6,377 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, Connecticut. in the USA
  • Local time:03:31 AM

Posted 08 August 2010 - 01:08 PM

Well one factor that is over looked when video cards problems are discussed is that the PSU has to supply enough current to satisfy everything inside the computer at the same time.

When power resources run low or not sufficient enough, something has to suffer.

For example, have you ever noticed in your house an occasional dimming of the lights happening from time to time? Like maybe when the refrigerator compressor kicks on?

If so, that is happening because the circuit that is supplying current to that source is running low on resources, the demand is greater than the supply.

When this happens inside a computer system, such instances cause hardware such as video cards to either glitch, or fail entirely, because there isn't enough resources to start with.

So what you need to do is select a PSU that supplies more than the demand will ever require.

Hope this helps.

Bruce.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 08 August 2010 - 01:08 PM.

Welcome to Bleeping Computer! :welcome:
New Members: Please click here for the Bleeping Computer Forum Board Rules
 
My Career Involves 37 Years as an Electronics Repair Technician, to Which I am Currently Retired From.

I Am Currently Using Windows 10 Home Edition.

As a Volunteer Staff Member of Bleeping Computer, the Help That I Proudly Provide Here To Our BC Forum Board Membership is Free of Charge. :wink:

#5 Jimi2000

Jimi2000
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:31 AM

Posted 10 August 2010 - 09:45 AM

Hi Bruce

Many thanks for your replies. They concur with much of what I've read as a result of Google searches.

However, it appears that the Zalman can output 30 amps on the combined 12v rails... here and other places...

http://www.acousticpc.com/zalman_zm460_aps_460_watt_psu.html

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article292-page1.html

So I'm wondering if I've done something silly like, not plugging in the right connectors... how do you get both 12v rails to work together? Is it possible to only connect one?

30 amps on the 12v rails should be enough to power a 9800gt, I've read.

So my question would be, how do you ensure that both rails are working together? Because I'm loath to buy yet another psu when the one I've got should be up to the task.

Thanks again

Jim

#6 MrBruce1959

MrBruce1959

    My cat Oreo


  • BC Advisor
  • 6,377 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, Connecticut. in the USA
  • Local time:03:31 AM

Posted 10 August 2010 - 10:53 AM

In answering your question.

If you take a PSU that outputs a total of 30 Amps.

And you use subtraction for each device that consumes that amount, until a final result is found.

Here is an example.

A motherboard demands 10 Amps.

The total of cooling fans consumes 10 Amps.

A DVD burner drive consumes 10 Amps

The USB hardware consumes 10 Amps

The Video card demands 10 Amps

Now be advised my numbers are NOT exact, they are not being taken from actual figures by any means, because I seriously can not tell you which hardware is demanding what, without actually checking them with an Am meter, so my numbers are NOT accurate here in this example.

The best way I can create an exact formula is by placing a VOM meter in line with the device so its current flows through the meter, it will give me a reading in how many Amps (current flow) is flowing through the meter to the device being tested.

If lets say my numbers above are true, we have a total demand of 50 Amperes as the result, the PSU is only safely capable of supplying and satisfying a total of 30 Amperes maximum, that means we have a deficit of 20 Amperes showing in our formula above. In order for each device to work at all, each would only be allowed 6 Amperes a piece. That is 4 Amperes short of the demand for each device. The result is, some devices will function quite well, while others may fail to function with stability or may fail entirely.

Because Video cards have a clock signal and have to scan and redraw a certain number of clocked frames per second, any disruption in this clock signal can cause artifacts to show up in the signal, or a total loss of signal all together.

There are many examples of this deficit in real life. Take the electricity that comes to your house from your electric company.
Have you ever noticed a fluctuation in your house lighting, when for a few brief moments, your lights will dim down momentarily?
Have you ever let the batteries run down on a portable tape player and realize the tape starts playing slower and slower?

This happens because the demand is greater than the supply. Things may still work, but they won't function like they should be functioning until the demand is satisfied.

Sorry to be long winded here and although I realize the way I worded this post is not up to the professional way I was taught to explain electronics to someone, I worded it in a manner I feel most anyone could understand, without all the technical jibber jabber only my fellow electronically inclined associates would understand.

Bruce.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 10 August 2010 - 10:54 AM.

Welcome to Bleeping Computer! :welcome:
New Members: Please click here for the Bleeping Computer Forum Board Rules
 
My Career Involves 37 Years as an Electronics Repair Technician, to Which I am Currently Retired From.

I Am Currently Using Windows 10 Home Edition.

As a Volunteer Staff Member of Bleeping Computer, the Help That I Proudly Provide Here To Our BC Forum Board Membership is Free of Charge. :wink:

#7 Jimi2000

Jimi2000
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:31 AM

Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:12 PM

Thanks again. How would a Corsair HX520W fare please? Surely that would be enough.

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I think I have PSU fatigue and can't focus anymore. Haha!

Jim

#8 MrBruce1959

MrBruce1959

    My cat Oreo


  • BC Advisor
  • 6,377 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, Connecticut. in the USA
  • Local time:03:31 AM

Posted 10 August 2010 - 01:28 PM

This PSU has 40 Amps on the 12 volt rail, which is 10 more Amps then the one you're using now.

I read some reviews on it and its an older brand PSU, becuase I see some reviews dated 2008.

Here's what one review stated.


"The Corsair HX520W power supply is the most versatile and robust power supply available in the market today. Utilizing superior triple +12V power rails and a whisper quiet double ball bearing 120 mm fan, the HX520W is ready for tomorrows power hungry components. The HX520W conforms to the latest ATX12V V2.2/EPS12V 2.91 and RoHS standards, and delivers unparalleled continuous power to all of your critical system components reliably and safely. Corsair's easily detachable and flexible modular cables allow you to use only the cables you need and enhance airflow inside your system. The HX520W is backed with a five year warranty and Corsair's legendary customer service."

The packaging of the HX520W uses a basic black and yellow theme and the layout is very much in line with the rest of the Corsair power supply range. The text is in English, French and German and gives you all the information you are likely to need when hunting down a power supply to suit your needs. The top of the box lists some of the more important features like how much current is available on the 12V rails (40A), high efficiency, silent operation, etc. The underside gives you a list of "Core Features," the specification chart and a list of awards from various websites.

I am just curious what is the price you're seeing for this PSU?

Bruce.
Welcome to Bleeping Computer! :welcome:
New Members: Please click here for the Bleeping Computer Forum Board Rules
 
My Career Involves 37 Years as an Electronics Repair Technician, to Which I am Currently Retired From.

I Am Currently Using Windows 10 Home Edition.

As a Volunteer Staff Member of Bleeping Computer, the Help That I Proudly Provide Here To Our BC Forum Board Membership is Free of Charge. :wink:

#9 Jimi2000

Jimi2000
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:31 AM

Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:03 PM

They go for about 40 on Ebay, which is the most I'm prepared to spend.

I didn't expect upgrading a graphics card to be this much hassle. If I have to spend more than that, I think I'd be best off going for an entire new computer and selling the desktop and laptop I have at the moment.

PSUs appear to be more expensive over here than they are in the States.

What would you reccommend?

Thanks for your time

Jim

#10 MrBruce1959

MrBruce1959

    My cat Oreo


  • BC Advisor
  • 6,377 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, Connecticut. in the USA
  • Local time:03:31 AM

Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:11 PM

It sounds like a decent PSU from what I can see.

I am just curious, without going way back through this thread, have you perhaps tried this video card in another computer to make sure its not a video card problem, such as a defect?

Would it be possible to check that before you spend the money on another PSU, just to be sure it is the PSU?

Just trying to save you the money, if its not the PSU in the first place.

Bruce.

Edited by MrBruce1959, 10 August 2010 - 02:13 PM.

Welcome to Bleeping Computer! :welcome:
New Members: Please click here for the Bleeping Computer Forum Board Rules
 
My Career Involves 37 Years as an Electronics Repair Technician, to Which I am Currently Retired From.

I Am Currently Using Windows 10 Home Edition.

As a Volunteer Staff Member of Bleeping Computer, the Help That I Proudly Provide Here To Our BC Forum Board Membership is Free of Charge. :wink:

#11 Jimi2000

Jimi2000
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:31 AM

Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:13 PM

That's an idea I have considered... but to be honest I don't know anyone with a similar setup, having recently moved.

I'll try to find someone who could help. You're right, it makes sense to cover all bases. Although this is the third card I've tried... maybe I have just been unlucky.

Cheers!

#12 MrBruce1959

MrBruce1959

    My cat Oreo


  • BC Advisor
  • 6,377 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norwich, Connecticut. in the USA
  • Local time:03:31 AM

Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:19 PM

Yeah , you know I am just a person on the other end of the Internet, but I do think of the people who come to this web site as part of my family, and I tend to think that I wouldn't ask my own family member to spend their hard earned dollar needlessly, so why would I ask anyone else to.

So basically, I think of everyone who comes to Bleepingcomputer as part of my family. :thumbsup:

Kind regards as always.

Bruce.
Welcome to Bleeping Computer! :welcome:
New Members: Please click here for the Bleeping Computer Forum Board Rules
 
My Career Involves 37 Years as an Electronics Repair Technician, to Which I am Currently Retired From.

I Am Currently Using Windows 10 Home Edition.

As a Volunteer Staff Member of Bleeping Computer, the Help That I Proudly Provide Here To Our BC Forum Board Membership is Free of Charge. :wink:

#13 Jimi2000

Jimi2000
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:08:31 AM

Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:32 PM

Thanks Uncle Bruce! Haha!

Just kidding. I'll see if I can try the card in another setup.

Best regards to you

Jim




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users