Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Won't Shut Down


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 twinsdad

twinsdad

  • Members
  • 411 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:Northern California
  • Local time:02:37 PM

Posted 07 October 2005 - 10:40 AM

Compaq 7465 running W98SE problem free for many months since installation of new HD. Suddenly refusing to shut down. When told to shut down, active desktop (with kid's photo) goes away leaving the standard blue background with the Compaq logo (that's normal so far) but then freezes at that point. Problem is consistent for about 20 attempts over a few days. When frozen, the double three-finger salute usually results in a black screen with the HD still spinning, but 2 or 3 times resulted in a BSOD. Regardless, only way to shut down is using the power button. Start-ups are completely normal every time.

Everything else seemingly OK.. Have not done anything knowingly stupid or added any programs or hardware. I'm current on all protective stuff, AVG, Spybot, AdAware, etc. and have run them with no issues whatsoever. Just did an uneventful ScanDisk and a Defrag. Searched around here at BC and based on that, ran MSCONFIG to verify that "Disable Fast Shutdown" was checked in Advanced Troubleshooting Settings (it was checked, don't remember why or when I did that some time ago, but have never had a shutdown problem before).

Hoping this does not portend something really nasty. I really prefer lurking here than begging for help.
"Love to eat them mousies, mousies what I like to eat; bite they little heads off, nibble on they tiny feet". B. Kliban

BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 Joshuacat

Joshuacat

    01001010 01000011


  • Members
  • 1,950 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Local time:03:37 PM

Posted 07 October 2005 - 11:18 AM

Twinsdad:

Have you tried some of the suggestions in this link?

http://aumha.org/win4/a/shtdwnse.php

Good-luck.

Edited by Joshuacat, 07 October 2005 - 11:20 AM.

JC

#3 twinsdad

twinsdad
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 411 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:Northern California
  • Local time:02:37 PM

Posted 07 October 2005 - 12:28 PM

Joshuacat:

Thanks for that link which I think I ran into whilst Googling about this issue yesterday, but I didn't want to gamble on an unknown source without the blessings of someone trusted (like you).

The link contains a lot of stuff to chew on so I'll take the time to do that before posting again. Thanks for jumping on this so quickly. Regards.

Edited by twinsdad, 07 October 2005 - 12:29 PM.

"Love to eat them mousies, mousies what I like to eat; bite they little heads off, nibble on they tiny feet". B. Kliban

#4 twinsdad

twinsdad
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 411 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:Northern California
  • Local time:02:37 PM

Posted 07 October 2005 - 12:54 PM

Please forgive a rhetorical question before digging into the link provided by Joshuacat: Is there some evil code permanently embedded in Windows that automatically triggers a problem whenever things seem to be working OK? Just saying.
"Love to eat them mousies, mousies what I like to eat; bite they little heads off, nibble on they tiny feet". B. Kliban

#5 twinsdad

twinsdad
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 411 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:Northern California
  • Local time:02:37 PM

Posted 07 October 2005 - 02:23 PM

Something interesting to report. Quickly scanning thru the link provided by Joshuacat, I noted that alternative means of shutting down should be tried, i.e. not using the mouse to Start>Shut Down>OK, but perhaps using a desktop shortcut created from the command line: C:\WINDOWS\RUNDLL32.EXE user,exitwindows, something I set up maybe a year ago (thanks for that tip Rigel!) and normally use to shutdown.

Well, I currently can't shut down using either of those methods BUT just discovered that I can shut down using the three-fingered salute (once, not twice) and pressing the "shutdown" button that appears in the "Close Program" window. I've tried that three times now and each time got a normal shutdown. So, does that tell you folks anything about what's going on in there? And if not, how about opining as to whether I can just continue shutting down that way rather than trying to fix something that otherwise isn't broken?

Low priority on this but sure would like some thoughts from anyone interested.
"Love to eat them mousies, mousies what I like to eat; bite they little heads off, nibble on they tiny feet". B. Kliban

#6 Joshuacat

Joshuacat

    01001010 01000011


  • Members
  • 1,950 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Local time:03:37 PM

Posted 07 October 2005 - 08:56 PM

Twinsdad:

The link contains a lot of stuff to chew on so I'll take the time to do that before posting again.


Microsoft also has a link that has a little less steps. They recommend that you try all of the steps in the document BEFORE loading the patch. I am sure you can check a few of these off if you tried some from the other link.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q238096/

Well, I currently can't shut down using either of those methods BUT just discovered that I can shut down using the three-fingered salute (once, not twice) and pressing the "shutdown" button that appears in the "Close Program" window. I've tried that three times now and each time got a normal shutdown. So, does that tell you folks anything about what's going on in there?


Weird...You would think that both tasks would be pointing to the same shutdown process.

Have you tried shutting down from within safe mode? Do you experience the same problem?

Is there some evil code permanently embedded in Windows that automatically triggers a problem whenever things seem to be working OK? Just saying.



:thumbsup: Some days I wonder if there is...
JC

#7 twinsdad

twinsdad
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 411 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:Northern California
  • Local time:02:37 PM

Posted 07 October 2005 - 10:01 PM

Joshuacat:
Thanks for the MS link....will go there next. You asked about shutting down from "safe" and I assume you asked because that would mean something. I haven't tried, but will in a little bit.

Yes, strange that I get a (seemingly) normal shutdown from the "Close Program" window but nowhere else. Also weird that this problem erupted after 5 years with 1000's of clean shutdowns. So why might I need a "patch" now? :thumbsup:

Thanks for listening.
"Love to eat them mousies, mousies what I like to eat; bite they little heads off, nibble on they tiny feet". B. Kliban

#8 Joshuacat

Joshuacat

    01001010 01000011


  • Members
  • 1,950 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Local time:03:37 PM

Posted 08 October 2005 - 10:24 AM

I was thinking that if you are able to shutdown in safe mode without any problems, that there might be a problem with something conflicting with the regular shutdown process in normal mode. If you are able to shutdown without issue in safe mode, I would try to isolate the possible cause of the conflict. One thing that you could try, shutdown your anti-virus program before attempting the shutdown process. You may have not added any programs to your computer, but AVG updates itself on a regular basis..perhaps one of the updates did not go as expected. I had an issue with Norton AV when liveupdate did not install an update as expected. -Not a shutdown problem, but a application error at shutdown. Worth a try with the other long list of MS support suggestions...
JC

#9 twinsdad

twinsdad
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 411 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:Northern California
  • Local time:02:37 PM

Posted 09 October 2005 - 10:22 AM

Joshuacat:
I guess I've never tried shutting down from "safe" before (I go to "safe" regularly to do ScanDisc, Defrag, etc. but have always restarted from there to go back to work).
Following your suggestion to shut down directly from "safe" I get a final screen that I've never seen before, a black background with large-font words in an orange tint that say "It is now safe to turn off your computer". At that point it appears that the only thing to do is use the tower switch. I've now done that three times with the same result.
So I guess my question back is: Is that the normal "shut down from safe mode" process? If so, your advice that something running in normal mode (such as AVG) is confusing the shut down process sure makes sense.

And a couple of addendums:
(1) I previously posted that I was able to shut down in normal mode using the Shut Down button in the Close Program window obtained by Control+Alt+Delete, but just found that is not consistent....sometimes it works and sometimes it results in the freeze. Weird.
(2) The two helpful links you provided focus primarily on shutdown problems that result either in an unwanted restart or a freeze at the "Windows is shutting down" screen. But please note that my freeze occurs at the screen (the blue backgrounded "Compaq Presario" logo) which (when things worked normally), precedes the "Windows is shutting down" screen. Don't know if that is particularly important, but didn't want to leave that issue silent.

When you have time, please let me know if my shutdown in safe mode described above is typical. Thanks in advance.
"Love to eat them mousies, mousies what I like to eat; bite they little heads off, nibble on they tiny feet". B. Kliban

#10 Joshuacat

Joshuacat

    01001010 01000011


  • Members
  • 1,950 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Local time:03:37 PM

Posted 09 October 2005 - 07:16 PM

I don't think there is a quick -Do this step - and your problem will be fixed.
Way too many possibilities here with your issue. I think you are going to have to run through some of the steps, and if none of them work, try the patch. :thumbsup:

Sorry, more links....
Here are a couple of more links that may help you complete the steps:
Windows 98 Troubleshooters => This links provides a series of choices and yes/no steps to go through in hopes of finding a cause to your problem.

How to troubleshoot Windows 98 shutdown problems => Goes through some of the same steps as the 98 Troubleshooter link, but gives something to reference and print.

Following your suggestion to shut down directly from "safe" I get a final screen that I've never seen before, a black background with large-font words in an orange tint that say "It is now safe to turn off your computer". At that point it appears that the only thing to do is use the tower switch. I've now done that three times with the same result.
So I guess my question back is: Is that the normal "shut down from safe mode" process?



I have seen that screen many times before.... With Windows 98 in Normal mode, I believe you may on occasion get this message screen, or it justs shuts down. In my experience, it will just shutdown. Does this screen come up everytime in 98's safe mode? If I had a 98 computer I would be tempted to test that one. At work, we use 2000, every once in a while I have a user comment that when they shut down their computer for the day, they get the "It is now safe to turn off your computer". For us, this does not occur on a regular basis, since it is a Microsoft message screen telling us to do something, we simply shut down the computer by using the power button.

The two helpful links you provided focus primarily on shutdown problems that result either in an unwanted restart or a freeze at the "Windows is shutting down" screen. But please note that my freeze occurs at the screen (the blue backgrounded "Compaq Presario" logo) which (when things worked normally), precedes the "Windows is shutting down" screen. Don't know if that is particularly important, but didn't want to leave that issue silent.


Still a shutdown problem, but it is probably a good thing to mention in case I, or the other readers of this have a suggestion.

Hope this helps.
JC

#11 twinsdad

twinsdad
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 411 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:Northern California
  • Local time:02:37 PM

Posted 10 October 2005 - 11:28 AM

Just for clarification: For something like five years my version of W98SE (the special version with the built-in code to start trouble whenever I think things are working OK :thumbsup: ) would shut down (in normal mode) by first replacing the active desktop with a blue-backgrounded screen with the large red Compaq Presario logo, followed by a "cloud" background with the MS logo with black large-font words at the bottom saying "Windows is now shutting down", followed by a total shutdown. The whole process would take perhaps 5 seconds and often the "Windows is now shutting down" screen was there for just a flash. Normal shutdown for me never required the use of the tower switch. About a year ago (based on a tip on this forum), I setup a desktop shortcut (C:\WINDOWS\RUNDLL32.EXE user.exe,exitwindows) for shutdown which worked the same way as previously described.
Now with this problem, a mouse-initiated shutdown (either with the shortcut or thru Start) always results in a freeze at the blue-backgrounded screen with the Compaq logo. It will sit there for hours with the HD spinning but not "doing" anything that I can hear. A single Control-Alt-Delete at that point does nothing, a double C-A-D seems to randomly produce either a restart (which always goes OK), or a BSOD that ignores any keyboard activity.

Based on Joshuacat's suggestion in this thread, I tried some shutdowns from Safe Mode, something I've never done before (always having re-started from Safe). That has produced (on 5 attempts) a black-backgrounded screen with centered large-font orange letters saying "It is now safe to turn off your computer".

So since this started a week or so ago, I've been shutting down using the tower switch after the freeze. New starts (maybe 25 of them) are seemingly without incident.

Having explored the links helpfully provided by Joshuacat, it seems like after some relatively "safe" fix attempts, I'm gonna be choosing between messing around in the Registry (really scared of that) and/or downloading a "patch" from MS (who I want to trust, but don't). Another alternative would be to do a system restore from the Compaq CDs, something that I had to do a year ago, a huge pain in the tush reinstalling everything, but it does seem to give you a "new" computer.

But isn't there another choice....just keep shutting down with the tower switch after the freeze? My lazy pea-sized brain is thinking that enough proper shutdown stuff is happening before the freeze to keep things (like my new HD) from blowing-up in there, so why not just suffer the inconvenience of using the tower switch. And if things do get worse, really worse, then do the system restore.

If anyone has had the patience to get this far, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the merits/dangers of just leaving things the way they are. Thanks in advance.
"Love to eat them mousies, mousies what I like to eat; bite they little heads off, nibble on they tiny feet". B. Kliban

#12 Joshuacat

Joshuacat

    01001010 01000011


  • Members
  • 1,950 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Local time:03:37 PM

Posted 11 October 2005 - 09:04 AM

Twinsdad:

If you decide to continue shutting down your computer by holding in the power button to shut off your computer, you are at risk that your computer will not start at all. You could continue to do this for a year or 2 without an issue, or it could stop working tomorrow. Whatever you decide to do, make sure that you have a good back-up of ALL of your data in case something goes wrong.

Only do the steps you are absolutely comfortable doing. I believe that the last link(Windows Troubleshooters) that I provided you did not have any registry edits. Although, it did have you disabling various things that you may have to re-enable, depending on the step.

Anyways, this is a good time to run a back-up of all of your data.
JC

#13 twinsdad

twinsdad
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 411 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:Northern California
  • Local time:02:37 PM

Posted 14 October 2005 - 11:09 PM

Based on about 10 successful "normal" shutdowns, I'm hopeful that my problem is resolved. And after all the effort Joshucat went to with lots of links and advice, I'm kinda embarrased to explain what likely was causing the problem, but here it is, hoping it may help someone else.

Before I originally posted about the problem, I thought it might be caused by something running in the background that was interfering with the shutdown process, but I didn't look carefully enough at what was running when I hit Control+Alt+Delete. That failure to observe is even more egregious, as I rarely have much running other than the normal W98 stuff plus the protective things like AVG, SpyBot, etc.

So after plowing through the links mentioned above and doing some Googling of my own, I was just about ready to gamble and install the Microsoft "patch" when I once more looked at what was running and noticed the words "Real Player" in the mix. Now I have Real Player installed (don't know when or why I got it, don't think I ever use it) and couldn't figure why it was "running". Did a couple of restarts and sure enough, it was there every time. Next, I went to: Start>Run>Msconfig and hit the Startup tab and found the box checked for something called: TkBellExe associated with "C:\Program Files\common files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe-osboot". So to wrap up this long-winded post, I unchecked the box for that pest and suddenly found myself able to shutdown just like I've been doing for 5 years. Guess I should be curious as to how TkBellExe suddenly got it's box checked, but I'm gonna attribute that to the gremlins that Mr. Gates put in my tower with his software.

So the lesson perhaps is: When things suddenly seem to go amiss, take a good hard look at what programs are running and if something is there that should not be there, find out why and fix it. Thanks everyone for listening and special thanks to Joshuacat (cute baby, congratulations!).
"Love to eat them mousies, mousies what I like to eat; bite they little heads off, nibble on they tiny feet". B. Kliban

#14 Joshuacat

Joshuacat

    01001010 01000011


  • Members
  • 1,950 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Local time:03:37 PM

Posted 15 October 2005 - 08:50 AM

So the lesson perhaps is: When things suddenly seem to go amiss, take a good hard look at what programs are running and if something is there that should not be there, find out why and fix it.



Thanks Twinsdad. I think we all learned something from this topic. Further to what you said above, if you are ever in doubt to what a program is you can do a search for it on BC's Start-up list. That's great that you found a solution. :thumbsup:

Start-up List
JC

#15 Rimmer

Rimmer

  • Members
  • 2,159 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Location:near Sydney, Australia
  • Local time:05:37 AM

Posted 17 October 2005 - 07:16 AM

Hi guys!

I'm late to the party again.....

twinsdad - Could I suggest you extract Real Player from your system entirely and replace it with "Real Alternative"? Not because RP has known shutdown problems but just because it is such an intrusive piece of self promoting bleep which does a bit of data mining on its own behalf and in some peoples opinions it almost qualifies as spyware. (I've used Real Alternative for almost a year with no probs so far.)

Download Real Alternative here:
http://www.free-codecs.com/Real_Alternative_download.htm

Imho many shutdown failures are related to audio software. Congratulations on fixing your problem. :thumbsup:

Soltek QBIC, Pentium 4 3.0GHz, 512MB RAM, 200GB SATA HDD, ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB, Netgear 54Mb/s WAP, ridiculously expensive Satellite Broadband
Windows XP Home SP2, Trend Micro Internet Security, Firefox, Thunderbird, AdAwareSE, Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster, A-squared Free, Ewido Security Suite.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users