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Replacing CPU


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#1 Papakid

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 11:50 PM

Hi all.
I'm not much of a hardware guy but have been forced to work on it lately and it's really not that bad--altho some things I still dread.

A few weeks ago my computer would not start up except for a few seconds before cutting off again. Wasn't real sure what to do about it, but tried unplugging for several seconds then plugging in again. That got me back up and running and I didn't look into it anymore because it wasn't completely broke, and I was in the process of figuring out what to do about a bad LCD monitor on my sister's computer (wound up replacing it with a new one of 24"), then replaced my old CRT that had gotten too dark to see, and researched what the best deal was on a good replacement mouse. On each issue it took me about a week to research and decide what to do.

When those projects were done I addressed this issue by replacing a 300 Watt Startech PSU with an Antec Earthwatts 500 Watt (actually made by Seasonic). Besides hoping that it would fix my powering up issues, I am seriously considering adding a video card to take more advantage of my new monitor's capabilities, so wanted to be sure I had enough power for that. Also the Antec is 80+ certified so is much more energy efficient.

Well, I had the new PSU installed for about a week, then I heard a small pop, the mouse pointer disappeared from the screen and then another pop and the computer shut down. I did the unplugging thing, but it won't stay powered up for very long now. It will POST and boot and sometimes get to the login screen, but I haven't been able to log in to my user account before it dies.

Again I wasn't sure what to do to even figure out what the problem was--even if I take it to a shop I like to know what to expect. But late the next day--Monday--I began fiddling with it and lucked out by finding the culprit pretty quickly. I moved the case fairly roughly and saw that the CPU fan wasn't fastened securely--one side was completely loose. I tried to reattach but couldn't and when I researched it on the net it appears that it is a common problem for the plastic pushpin fasteners on Intel fans to break off. I'm assuming the pops I heard were the plastic breaking free but who knows.

I found one site where I could replace just the push pins:
http://www.directron.com/intelpushpins.html

Also considered this CPU Stabilizer kit:
http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/pc-ac...ilizer-775.html

also considered replacing the whole fan/heat sink.

Then I decided that while I was doing this, I could upgrade my CPU from a Celeron D to a Dual-Core--since a new fan and heat sink comes with the CPU I could kill two birds with one stone. So I ordered the following, which should be delivered here some time tomorrow:

Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5400 Wolfdale 2.7GHz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819116076

I'm not interested in high end gaming but do like casual games--and my elderly parents that partially own this computer love Zuma and Peggle. So I don't need the latest and greatest, but will appreciate the improved performance. And as I understand it, the dual-core produces less heat, consumes less electricity, is reasonably priced and so is a good economical choice for my needs.

But at this point I have some questions that aren't easy to find thru research so I need the help of you good hardware guys. First let me give my important specs:

Motherboard: ASRock 775VM800
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Mode...VM800&s=775
Old CPU: 2.6 GHz Intel Celeron D Prescott
New CPU: Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5400 Wolfdale 2.7GHz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor
RAM: One stick 512 MB Samsung SDRAM DDR PC2100
One stick 128 MB Samsung SDRAM DDR PC2100
Monitor: ViewSonic VX1932wm-LED 19-Inch WLED-Backlit Energy Efficient LCD Monitor
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx...N82E16824116419
OS: XP SP3 Home

The ASRock supporting the Dual core processor is another reason I thought of upgrading. I ordered that new CPU because my research indicated that it was the same socket type and the mobo supports the 800MHz FSB--but now I have some other concerns about it being compatible.

Question One: Prescott is printed in big letters on the motherboard--is there going to be any problem with the new CPU being a Wolfdale? Does anything else jump out at you that I should worry about?

I am thinking strongly of upgrading the motherboard anyway--dual cores were new when I got it so it's getting old, but my first priority is to get the PC up and running as soon as possible and worry about more upgrades later so I would like to use this mobo if possible. I also intend to upgrade RAM to probably 2 GB. I saw in a user review somewhere that someone had to use a different type of RAM with their dual core processor--I think, but I didn't save the link. So...

Question Two: Does anyone know offhand if it's possible the new CPU won't be compatible with my old RAM and that this would prevent getting the computer up and running again?

Next, I've been reading over the following tutorial:
How to Upgrade Your CPU
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/427

It's a bit dated but otherwise pretty good. However, this has me concerned:

Before replacing your CPU we strongly recommend you to perform a BIOS upgrade on your motherboard to update your motherboard with the latest available BIOS. Please read our How To Perform a BIOS Upgrade tutorial for further instructions. This will assure you that your motherboard will recognize your new CPU. Several times when you install a new CPU that you know that your motherboard supports your motherboard won’t turn on because it needs a BIOS upgrade, and you will have to install back your old CPU in order to do this. Avoid this hassle by performing a BIOS upgrade before replacing your CPU.


This is just the kind of thing that I want to avoid. However, my next project, that i was just about to go into when the computer died, was to update the BIOS anyway. The native resolution of my new monitor is not supported by the onboard video card of this mobo, but according to ASRock, an update to the BIOS will correct that--see the first FAQ here:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/faq.asp?Model=775VM800&s=775

So my plan now is to use the new fan that comes with the new CPU, but leave the old CPU installed--see if I can get the computer up and running, then update the BIOS and switch to the new CPU later--maybe upgrade the mobo while I'm at it if that is suggested by you all.

Question Three: Should I do that or do you think it is OK to try the new CPU first?

Finally, I didn't order any Thermal Grease like I had meant to. I'll need more if I want to install a CPU more than once. I called a local shop to see if they had any they could sell me, but the guy said he just uses what comes in the box with Intel CPU most of the time and is almost out of extra. But while we were talking, he kind of confirmed that the loose fan was probably my problem and gave me some tips on installing--but he said that you don't want to turn the push pin fasteners of the fan/heat sink before you push down on them. That is opposite of what the mobo manual says to do. It says to rotate the fasteners clockwise, then press down. They are adamant about that, and the guy who I talked to was adamant about his advice--he's been building computers for years for schools and businesses, not to mention for home use. He says you only turn the pins to take the fan off. So the final question:

Question Four: Could someone describe in detail, step by step, the correct way to securely fasten the pushpins--and relate your own experiences with them?

Altho I think I may have figured this one out. Another tutorial (with nice photos) also doesn't mention turning the pins before pushing down. http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=602&pgno=3
But it does say to turn the pins counter-clockwise to remove. So, when installing, are they turning the pins clockwise as far as they will go before aligning the pins to the through holes?

I appreciate all input. I will have some more questions, especially about upgrading to a video card, but it will have to wait til later.

The thing about people

is they change

when they walk away.--Mipso


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#2 the_patriot11

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:06 AM

here is the CPU support list for that motherboard, unfortunatly I dont see it on there. You can try it, shouldnt hurt anything, but but my experience with intel CPUs and motherboards is that they are picky, if the right things dont match up, it just plain dont work. As far as push pin heatsinks, I hate them. I use this on my intel pentium D 930 CPU and it works rather well, is easy to install, and no problems with it popping off.

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Primary system: Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 945, Memory: 16 gigs of Patriot G2 DDR3 1600, Video: AMD Sapphire Nitro R9 380, Storage: 1 WD 500 gig HD, 1 Hitachi 500 gig HD, and Power supply: Coolermaster 750 watt, OS: Windows 10 64 bit. 

Media Center: Motherboard: Gigabyte mp61p-S3, Processor: AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+, Memory: 6 gigs Patriot DDR2 800, Video: Gigabyte GeForce GT730, Storage: 500 gig Hitachi, PSU: Seasonic M1211 620W full modular, OS: Windows 10.

If I don't reply within 24 hours of your reply, feel free to send me a pm.


#3 the_patriot11

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:09 AM

as far as pushing the pins in, i have a push pin heatsink that I dont use anymore, you insert the pin in the hole, and then push down on the pins and turn clockwise till they secure. pain in the butt.

picard5.jpg

 

Primary system: Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 945, Memory: 16 gigs of Patriot G2 DDR3 1600, Video: AMD Sapphire Nitro R9 380, Storage: 1 WD 500 gig HD, 1 Hitachi 500 gig HD, and Power supply: Coolermaster 750 watt, OS: Windows 10 64 bit. 

Media Center: Motherboard: Gigabyte mp61p-S3, Processor: AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+, Memory: 6 gigs Patriot DDR2 800, Video: Gigabyte GeForce GT730, Storage: 500 gig Hitachi, PSU: Seasonic M1211 620W full modular, OS: Windows 10.

If I don't reply within 24 hours of your reply, feel free to send me a pm.


#4 Papakid

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 12:43 AM

Thanks for your reply, the_patriot09

I'm back up and running. I just put the new fan on the old CPU for now. It's a much smaller heat sink--which makes sense if the dualcore generates less heat--but I've not had any problems so far and the CPU is not maxed out when listening to music at Pandora, and it is much quieter. I think the HSF may have been a little loose for some time--the fan sometimes made a strange noise when starting up but I had no idea what the cause might be. From what I've read, those push pins give a lot of people trouble (I understand why you hate them) and I think maybe the HSF wasn't properly secured at the shop where I had the motherboard and CPU installed. That shop is no longer in business.

I actually didn't have much problem with the push pinshttp://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129151. The illustrations that pass for instructions in the manual indicated that I should do as the guy I talked to over the phone said. I just lined them up with the through holes, pushed down and they were locked in place and very secure. Was the HSF you tested one with an Intel logo on it?

Thanks for pointing out the list of CPU's compatible with my mobo--I'm kicking myself for not seeing that so now I'm having second thoughts about upgrading CPU to this mobo--I may just get a replacement HSF and sell the dual core on ebay. I'll have to think about it for a while. Before I update my BIOS I need to get my backups in good order and, since my C drive is getting full I need to lean it up also--so I will have some time.

I can't use the HSF you suggested because my mobo has a four pin power connector and that one is three pin. I also understand why you would prefer the screwin type of fastener, but I rejected getting that stabalizer kit because I figured with a backplate you had to take the mobo out and I didn't want to get into that just yet. But I will be looking around newegg for some others.

If I stay with this motherboard, I want to upgrade the video, not only to achieve the native resolution of the new monitor, but I would also like to watch videos on sites like Hulu in high definition. The monitor has a DVI connection, so if I upgrade the RAM and add a card with DVI is that going to be enough?

One problem with this mobo is that it has no PCI-E slots. But it does have AGP. I've been eyeing this card:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx...N82E16814129151

My question about this is that I saw somewhere this card is AGP2 and my mobo supports AGP1. I understand that the card should be backward compatible, but would that affect quality of high def? Also the mobo uses 1.5 volts and the manual gives dire warnings against using a 3.3 V card. I can't find that spec for the Visiontek card, but my understanding is that 3.3V is old technology, so new cards should be 1.5V, is that correct?

Also are there any PCI cards that support HD?

The thing about people

is they change

when they walk away.--Mipso


#5 the_patriot11

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 11:56 AM

3 pin heatsinks will work on a a 4 pin hookup, you just wont have fan control it will run at 100% all the time. thats all that fourth pin is there for.

as far as AGP2 to AGP 1, shouldnt hurt the quality much, just the framerate of stuff like games. It will run at a slightly slower speed then AGP2 will, but if you don't game I doubt you'll see much of a difference anywhere else.

picard5.jpg

 

Primary system: Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 945, Memory: 16 gigs of Patriot G2 DDR3 1600, Video: AMD Sapphire Nitro R9 380, Storage: 1 WD 500 gig HD, 1 Hitachi 500 gig HD, and Power supply: Coolermaster 750 watt, OS: Windows 10 64 bit. 

Media Center: Motherboard: Gigabyte mp61p-S3, Processor: AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+, Memory: 6 gigs Patriot DDR2 800, Video: Gigabyte GeForce GT730, Storage: 500 gig Hitachi, PSU: Seasonic M1211 620W full modular, OS: Windows 10.

If I don't reply within 24 hours of your reply, feel free to send me a pm.





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